Polish resistance leader re-interred in military cemetery - Polidicks

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubingiai_massacre?wprov=sfta1[/url] I just read the article and as a history major, I'm going to try and sum this up. First, war is hell and nobody is safe from blame. Now, the whole thing started when some Lithuanian police working with the Nazis killed some Polish people and then the Polish resistance went to kill the Lithuanians collaborating with the Nazis... The unit sent to the area where this happened, were the people who saw the previous massacre, and as is so often in war, negative emotions get in the way of reasoning. The police members in question had already fled before the polish attackers arrived and despite there being an order by the general in question not to execute innocent civilians, as well as a courier being sent to stop the commander of the unit from killing civilians, shit happened. Then the Russians invaded and both sides quit with the reprisals. What we have here is an unfortunate event where mistakes occurred and people got killed. It's quite common in an occupied nation. Just look at the reprisals that happened in Itay, France, and many other countries during World War II.

A man fought all WWII for Poland, and then some, was tortured and jailed and executed in the process. However, he lead a botched retaliatory action against lithuanian nazi collaborators, whom someone warned and they fled? MURDERER, WAR CRIMINAL! There is not a single piece of evidence that confirms that he gave an order of that kind. Not to mention, that the man never ordered to "kill elderly, woman and children" before the incident, and after, so why would he suddenly go berserk on some shitty lituhanian village? The people targeted were soldiers, policemen, spies, etc. First two and last two of the exetucutions done on nazi collaborators were held by the book, with no harm done to their families. So apparently his order was extermely specific and said "kill everyone inbetween but not first and last two families" or some of the few hundred soldiers he commanded got russianbrain and decided to murder, rape and pillage. Just think about that and dont quickly jump to conclusions that other Poles in this thread got from hearing something somewhere in tv/radio/internets and repeat it I dont know for what reason, but it just makes our country and history look worse than it should be. These murders happened, noone is denying that, its nothing to be proud of, but dumping all responsibility on this man is hilarious. Also, even if you call him a 100% murderer, none of the murderers from the "cause" murder were held accountable [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glinciszki_massacre[/url] and I demand justice. But Lithuanians have hateboner towards Poles, and its never ever going to happen.

Yes, those 4 exetucution were on collborators. But all the other deaths were on lithuanian civillians. The words of his deputy, por. cc Wiktor Wiącek „Rakoczy” says cearly, that the order was to made similiar exetucutions on civillians, as Lithuanians made to us. [url]http://pamiec.pl/pa/tylko-u-nas/15322,ZBRODNIA-DUBINSKA-A-MAJOR-LUPASZKOquot.html[/url]. So we CAN say that he IS responsible, and it was war crime. I don't want to make our history look worse. I want history to be honest. And I hope people on fp understand, that war is hell and accidents like this happens, and it's not a reason to think worse of us. And acually, I think he served long for country, and should be somewhat honored. But he should not be gloryfied like he was yesterday, and we shouldn't ignore that he did wrong. Because when someone will gloryfy him knowing what he did, that person in similiar situation won't hesitate to do the same. Which make wars much worse for everyone. Also I want so called 'justice', I want all countries to admit to their war crimes (Dubingiai, Glinciszki, Katyń, Wołyń, Srebrenica, mass killing of ormian etc). It would make world better place.

[QUOTE=WhyNott;50198092][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubingiai_massacre?wprov=sfta1[/url] Just FYI, that guy was a war criminal responsible for deaths of many men, women and children as young as four months of age. He most certainly doesnt deserve any honors.[/QUOTE] Its actually quite funny how everyone was so occupied arguing stalin vs hitler they didnt notice me saying this 20 posts ago :v

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50198577]I didn't realize there were non-Russian Stalin apologists Gulags were just misrepresented boy scout camps too, I suppose[/QUOTE] excuse me?

Just for the record, the reason the forgotten heroes are re-interred in the cemeteries is not only because of politics. Most of those people who fought the Germans for Poland, gave up arms after the war, and were either imprisoned or tortured executed. Some chose to stay in hiding and fight the soviets. They were also eventually imprisoned, executed and their remains were buried in ditches all around Poland, with no ceremony or anything. And all their documents were destroyed, and the records of their lives. What was left is only fabricated proofs of their "crimes". Some of them murdered civilians, mostly collaborators with the soviet occupant, some of which were Jews, which is a favourite argument of the Polish left against the post-war resistance. But they always skip that part where the victims were collaborating with the Soviets and traitors. About the Lithuanian massacre - the Lithuanians were really butthurt that after WWI we didn't let them have a majority Polish region of Vilnius just because of their historical claims. And they actively supported Germany in repression and murder of Polish people in Lithuania. The Ukrainians did it too, only their actions exceeded Germans in their brutality and consequence. If I was a part of relatiation force, trying to hunt down the war criminals who murdered my people, in their own homes, I know I wouldn't want to kil their women and children. But I don't know if I wouldn't do it. I don't think anyone would even read this, but here you go. Here's an internet monument of how everyone screwed us over, and yet we're the assholes.

I wouldnt know about that first part since it not really my thing (although i think they didnt just kill soviet colaborators), but Im pretty sure in order to do what they did to that town you would have to be irreparably fucked up in the head. Regardles of how many of your kind they had killed. They didnt just kill their women and children, they also raped and massacred them before they did so. They also shot any poles that tried to defend them. If your sense of rightness places this as "acceptable because lithuanians were mean to us" then the only internet monument that youre making right now is of your own sociopathy.

[QUOTE=mralexs;50198037]Stalin killed more people in his purges and 5 year plans[/QUOTE] Most of the deaths, IE Holodomor, were a result of poor policy. There wasn't a systematic genocide on the level of the Nazis.

[QUOTE=AhoyMate;50198073]While I do believe that Stalin wasn't any better than Hitler, forced secularization isn't necessarily a bad thing.[/QUOTE] Lol, Forcing people to abandon their personal beliefs isn't a bad thing. Suuure. I'm an atheist but that's really stupid.