US Navy to commission missile defense base in Romania - Polidicks

[QUOTE=antianan;46203494]Not really. I mean, i understand that Eastern Europe is afraid of possible russian aggression, and i'm really sorry about this, but this move isn't aimed to prevent it. It's not like Putin is going to attack former soviet states with missiles or something, and a regular military base with conventional weapons would suit much better to keep Russia from pushing. The only thing this base is capable of is to weaken the whole MAD doctrine. Do you really think this is a good idea?[/QUOTE] MAD is not dead yet; there's still bombers and submarines with nukes; Aegis doesn't do jack about that. [QUOTE]I thought Romania was pro-Russia?[/QUOTE] Let the former US ambassador explain that better: [url]http://youtu.be/dASnZ4qO4YE?t=16m44s[/url]

[QUOTE=spiritlol;46200871]See Russia you're doing it all wrong. You have to have a huge army and be super friendly because then they just give you their land. Soon all of Europe will be ours. Welcome to the greatest country on earth my fellow Americans.[/QUOTE] We're going for a diplomatic victory, rather than a military one. Its getting close to 2050, though!

[QUOTE=laserguided;46202760]This has been a roadblock in U.S.-Russia relations since the Bush years. The issue is that it can intercept missiles OVER Russian territory.[/QUOTE] Which is basically half the globe according to Russia :v:

[QUOTE=Luni;46199929]correct me if i'm wrong but isn't it a defensive installation, so the kremlin is just angry about not being able to rocket europe as easily[/QUOTE] It doesn't work this way. If you encircle Russia with missile bases then it no longer can use missiles. Means that everyone else can use missiles on Russia without Russia being able to do anything about it. Nuclear neutrality being broken. While it's a defensive installation it's essentially an offensive move.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206439]It doesn't work this way. If you encircle Russia with missile bases then it no longer can use missiles. Means that everyone else can use missiles on Russia without Russia being able to do anything about it. Nuclear neutrality being broken. While it's a defensive installation it's essentially an offensive move.[/QUOTE] I'd prefer an unstable regime with nukes to be kept in check though. Thanks. Once you actually have democracy, or not a psychopathic tyrant as your head of state, people MIGHT not be terrified of russia having power.

[QUOTE=laserguided;46203029]Geopolitical landscape can change. Russia sees this as encroachment. It's only bound to get more aggressive. Prove otherwise.[/QUOTE]They can just deal with it. If they don't want their neighbours hosting nuclear missile defences, they should try treating them better.

[QUOTE=Miskav;46206454]I'd prefer an unstable regime with nukes to be kept in check though. Thanks. Once you actually have democracy, or not a psychopathic tyrant as your head of state, people MIGHT not be terrified of russia having power.[/QUOTE] Aren't you afraid of USA becoming the sole superpower with no challange? At the moment Russia is it's main alternative. If Russia is pinned down USA will have no competition. Do you really think it's a good thing? I would rather have both powers keep up the healthy competition. Neither of them will do anyone any good if they are given insane power. It's not like Russia would nuke anyone right away if it wasn't for these missile defence stations. Russia is actually pretty reliable. I guess most stable regime you can get.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206511]Aren't you afraid of USA becoming the sole superpower with no challange? At the moment Russia is it's main alternative. If Russia is pinned down USA will have no competition. Do you really think it's a good thing? I would rather have both powers keep up the healthy competition. Neither of them will do anyone any good if they are given insane power. It's not like Russia would nuke anyone right away if it wasn't for these missile defence stations. [B]Russia is actually pretty reliable. I guess most stable regime you can get.[/B][/QUOTE] lol

[QUOTE=Miskav;46206454]I'd prefer an unstable regime with nukes to be kept in check though. Thanks. Once you actually have democracy, or not a psychopathic tyrant as your head of state, people MIGHT not be terrified of russia having power.[/QUOTE] But these bases can't really do much in case of a massive launch of ICBM's. They just make situation even more unstable. Also, i wouldn't call Putin's regime unstable. The sad thing is that it's pretty stable at this moment. And it's funny to hear words like "psychopathic tyrant". Putin is just a cold blooded, smart and power hungry bastard. But thanks god he's not a tyrant.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206511]Aren't you afraid of USA becoming the sole superpower with no challange? At the moment Russia is it's main alternative. If Russia is pinned down USA will have no competition. Do you really think it's a good thing? I would rather have both powers keep up the healthy competition. Neither of them will do anyone any good if they are given insane power. It's not like Russia would nuke anyone right away if it wasn't for these missile defence stations. Russia is actually pretty reliable. I guess most stable regime you can get.[/QUOTE] Yes because if Russia happens to go away the USA will literally buttrape the rest of the free world for shits and giggles.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206511]Aren't you afraid of USA becoming the sole superpower with no challange? At the moment Russia is it's main alternative. If Russia is pinned down USA will have no competition. Do you really think it's a good thing? I would rather have both powers keep up the healthy competition. Neither of them will do anyone any good if they are given insane power. It's not like Russia would nuke anyone right away if it wasn't for these missile defence stations. Russia is actually pretty reliable. I guess most stable regime you can get.[/QUOTE] USA is still the worlds only superpower, and right now their big challenge is China who really doesn't even care about challenging that much. Russia really isn't America's biggest threat, they just want to be.

[QUOTE=antianan;46206660] Also, i wouldn't call Putin's regime unstable. The sad thing is that it's pretty stable at this moment. And it's funny to hear words like "psychopathic tyrant". Putin is just a cold blooded, smart and power hungry bastard of a politician as any in his spot would be without any decent rivalry.. But thanks god he's not a tyrant.[/QUOTE] Fixed that for ya. Also, don't expect much of consequence from all of this. It's not like Russian goverment was unaware of such scenario. it's merely another move in big chess play where every move is planned ahead, althouth i have to wonder at wich moment we get Russian bases in Argentina - they seem as new hotspot.

[QUOTE=laserguided;46203029]Geopolitical landscape can change. Russia sees this as encroachment. It's only bound to get more aggressive. Prove otherwise.[/QUOTE] So wait, Russia invading Ukraine and expressing their concerns for Russian minorities in countries like Poland and other Eastern European countries is not encroachment? Now, why again is Russia ok to do this?

[QUOTE=laserguided;46203551]secret nato comms?[/QUOTE] nope its secret kremlin comms directed at you to tell you to keep making retarded pro russian arguments we're on to you laserguided

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206511] Russia is actually pretty reliable. I guess most stable regime you can get.[/QUOTE] Yes, if you enjoy ruthless dictators who consider myself and a lot of my friends as subhuman and wouldn't mind seeing me die. I'll stick to actual, proper human beings. If russians want to support those kind of nutjobs, then they can do so. But I wont feel sorry if they suffer as a result of their choices.

Russian brainwashing is some crazy shit.

[QUOTE=Miskav;46207090]Yes, if you enjoy ruthless dictators who consider myself and a lot of my friends as subhuman and wouldn't mind seeing me die. I'll stick to actual, proper human beings. If russians want to support those kind of nutjobs, then they can do so. But I wont feel sorry if they suffer as a result of their choices.[/QUOTE] Please define "stable". It's you said "stable", not me. How is Putin not stable? When thinking about politics you should put your own hatred towards a person away. You have never met Putin. You don't even know if he is the decision maker or merely a public figure. And you will never find out. Putin is most stable you can get. You may hate Putin, you may dream of him fucking you in the ass, nobody gives a damn shit. The point is that Putin is most stable because it will take something really shocking to put him and his regime down, at least for a few years ahead. If you disagree, if you believe that Putin's regime is not stable then please tell me why. Or you could always throw emotional accusations around because that always benefits the discussion in a constructive way and totally doesn't make you look like god damn fanatic. [editline]12th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=ImperialGuard;46206725]USA is still the worlds only superpower, and right now their big challenge is China who really doesn't even care about challenging that much. Russia really isn't America's biggest threat, they just want to be.[/QUOTE] I never said biggest threat. But if Russia wasn't a big competitor to USA in very many spheres, mostly economically (US trying to get Europe to live off its' gas and oil instead of dirty red commie gas and oil), USA wouldn't give a fuck about Russia. There wouldn't be military bases (that cost millions if not billions) on Russia's border. China is a different thing altogether. [editline]12th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;46206674]Yes because if Russia happens to go away the USA will literally buttrape the rest of the free world for shits and giggles.[/QUOTE] Do I even need to explain that anything coming to great dominance over other entities leads to destructive consequences? USA already has a great economic and scientific advantage over most countries on Earth. It leads all the debates, gets to judge what sides of conflicts are right and who is wrong. USA has the right to comment on literally every country's internal affairs and even interfere. USA can spy on the whole world and get away with it. Imagine if that margin of power between USA's closest competitor and USA increased three times. Would it be good? Would it really be good if USA could invade any country without any consequences (because all other countries are so dependant on USA they can't even say a word)? Maybe they wouldn't invade anyone, but having the possibility of that is bad enough. I don't care if it's China or Russia or Madagaskar, but someone has to already be the competitor. If Russia was in USA's place I would go all the way "Go USA, rise, I don't want russkies to fuck up the world".

[QUOTE=FalconKrunch;46207263]Russian brainwashing is some crazy shit.[/QUOTE] It's hard to brainwash people that have access to other sources of information. I think it's just a matter of alignment. Most of this forum is strongly pro-western, so anything that don't fit to their point of view is often declared either bullshit of brainwashing. I know this post will also collect funnies and boxes, but i think while you guys are right in blaming Russia's government for it's recent actions, you're not very objective in general.

[QUOTE=antianan;46209377]It's hard to brainwash people that have access to other sources of information. I think it's just a matter of alignment. Most of this forum is strongly pro-western, so anything that don't fit to their point of view is often declared either bullshit of brainwashing. I know this post will also collect funnies and boxes, but i think while you guys are right in blaming Russia's government for it's recent actions, you're not very objective in general.[/QUOTE] Our generation was raised by people who lived in fear of the USSR. I doubt we can expect any sort of improved relations until the next two generations where those who were born around the end of the Soviet Union are the ones raising kids.

Romanian headlines: "1,369,532 FOREIGN AMERICANS FREE TO ENTER THE COUNTRY"

[QUOTE=antianan;46203111]The point is that it's breaking the deterrence. This can only lead to another arms race which is bad for both sides. I know that we've been all aggressive lately, but it's unlikely going to spread far than Ukraine. So while it's probably been provoked by our own actions, this is clearly an offensive move.[/QUOTE] With all the apologetic routines you and a couple other Russian FPers have been pulling off, I just don't see how is it at all possible for you to not see that Europe boosting it's military capacity and reversing cutbacks is, without a doubt, the [I]direct result[/I] of Russian aggression this past year. Let me make this simple: contrary to how Russians seem to interpret it, it's not the evil Empire of USA manipulating all these poor European nations and whipping up anti-Russian sentiments and then profiteering off arms sales. As hard to believe for you as it may be, it's actually these European nations themselves procuring defense contracts and arms sales from the US and the EU at large to stem off Russian aggression! What a twist! If Russia stopped getting boners over the imperium it once had, Europe would stop feeling threatened. ESPECIALLY the smaller Eastern European nations who have bitter memories of Soviet occupation. Try to understand, please, there are people in BETWEEN the two sides. Stop making this about the US and Russia.

[QUOTE=antianan;46209377]It's hard to brainwash people that have access to other sources of information. I think it's just a matter of alignment. Most of this forum is strongly pro-western, so anything that don't fit to their point of view is often declared either bullshit of brainwashing. I know this post will also collect funnies and boxes, but i think while you guys are right in blaming Russia's government for it's recent actions, you're not very objective in general.[/QUOTE] expecting objectivity from fp is like expecting to find drinkable water from a sea of piss come on, you know where you are it's a western forum, of course there's gonna be western bias at least from here you can get an idea how far we are apart in terms of what either have been brainwashed with

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206511]Aren't you afraid of USA becoming the sole superpower with no challange? At the moment Russia is it's main alternative. If Russia is pinned down USA will have no competition. Do you really think it's a good thing? I would rather have both powers keep up the healthy competition. Neither of them will do anyone any good if they are given insane power. It's not like Russia would nuke anyone right away if it wasn't for these missile defence stations. Russia is actually pretty reliable. I guess most stable regime you can get.[/QUOTE] What is a China?

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206511]Aren't you afraid of USA becoming the sole superpower with no challange? At the moment Russia is it's main alternative. If Russia is pinned down USA will have no competition. Do you really think it's a good thing? I would rather have both powers keep up the healthy competition. Neither of them will do anyone any good if they are given insane power. It's not like Russia would nuke anyone right away if it wasn't for these missile defence stations. Russia is actually pretty reliable. I guess most stable regime you can get.[/QUOTE] Fucking hell, they indoctrinated you good 'n' proper

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206511]Aren't you afraid of USA becoming the sole superpower with no challange? At the moment Russia is it's main alternative. If Russia is pinned down USA will have no competition. Do you really think it's a good thing? I would rather have both powers keep up the healthy competition. Neither of them will do anyone any good if they are given insane power. It's not like Russia would nuke anyone right away if it wasn't for these missile defence stations. Russia is actually pretty reliable. I guess most stable regime you can get.[/QUOTE] Russia doesn't have a stable regime as much as it has a stable culture. Regime isn't the culture However. The difference between Russia and the US is that the US allows immigrants from any culture - Russia is primarlly a nation-state based off a common language and ethnic grouping, therefor meaning that Russia has more interest in Russia and Russians than the US has in just Americans seeing as American isn't as much as an ethnic group as a political status. While I agree with the premise that having no competition leads to absolute power, (which is something everyone here learns in grade school is a recipe for disaster), there hasn't been a tyrannical regime with historical relevance here. Russia has. Granted the job of a nation-state is to patronize, endorse, provide and protect for it's citizens. However, Russia lost those citizens when it voluntarily collapsed the USSR. So they aren't technically members of Russia. However, what the US would do is in that situation is allow every Russian speaking person or someone who is Russian to immigrate to Russia. However Russia is an ethnic nation state, meaning that it's primary goal is to provide for ethnic Russians. So yes, we can see why Russia is doing what it's doing. However invading and controlling other governments is undemocratic if done by an undemocratic regime, which is why the US doesn't support it. [quote] Also, i wouldn't call Putin's regime unstable. The sad thing is that it's pretty stable at this moment. And it's funny to hear words like "psychopathic tyrant". Putin is just a cold blooded, smart and power hungry bastard. But thanks god he's not a tyrant. [/quote] That's pretty much a tyrant in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, in my opinion, I consider Bush borderline tyrannical in that sense. However there's evidence that Russia rigged elections in Crimea, suggesting that there's something undemocratic about the regime there. It's possible your elections are rigged. [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;46206674]Yes because if Russia happens to go away the USA will literally buttrape the rest of the free world for shits and giggles.[/QUOTE] It's possible, Bush practically did in the sense that he started a lot of shady shit (like state-sanctioned-torture) and steamrolled over a lot of international conventions.

[QUOTE=GunFox;46202965]The Aegis system really is defensive. It is even named after the ancient shield of Athena.[/QUOTE] For the Record, Aegis can fire SM-3 dual purpose Anti-air/BMD missiles. Though what I want to know is will it be a VLS launcher like the one I work on and is normally configured with AEGIS? Or is it going to be a new interface with some lame shit like Patriot THAD or some shit.

[QUOTE=antianan;46209377]It's hard to brainwash people that have access to other sources of information. I think it's just a matter of alignment. Most of this forum is strongly pro-western, so anything that don't fit to their point of view is often declared either bullshit of brainwashing. I know this post will also collect funnies and boxes, but i think while you guys are right in blaming Russia's government for it's recent actions, you're not very objective in general.[/QUOTE] How can you not be a brainwashed degenerate and still hate on homosexual people.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;46206674]Yes because if Russia happens to go away the USA will literally buttrape the rest of the free world for shits and giggles.[/QUOTE] Yea with our prison population we have all the buttraping we need.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;46206674]Yes because if Russia happens to go away the USA will literally buttrape the rest of the free world for shits and giggles.[/QUOTE] "If Russia rises it means the US falls" You can't argue that the us treats its allies worse than Russia does, we don't invade our allies and seize their shit, also we pay them and supply them with aid as well as political clout [editline]13th October 2014[/editline] I like how people point to the shady shit the u.s. has been shown to do in the war on terror, wake up every nation on the planet has done the same shady shit in the fight against militant extremists, its like the one unifying thing, Russian spec ops works with american special forces who are both working with German, Italian, and French inteligence agencies. we remanded people and acknowledge it, but so does every other country out there [editline]13th October 2014[/editline] I'm not advocating it or saying its right but the problem with the war on terror is that you either go to extremes to protect everybody or watch hell rain down when you miss something

[QUOTE=Killuah;46217061]How can you not be a brainwashed degenerate and still hate on homosexual people.[/QUOTE] I haven't seen any anti-homosexual propaganda at all. Lots of people here hate homosexual people not because of some brainwashing, i believe it's just one of the ussr's psychological remnants we have to overcome. Current mid-age generation have been raised by the people who lived in an anti-gay state, but i know a lot of my coevals who don't really care if some person is homosexual or not. Just give us some time. [QUOTE=Medevila;46217349]You herald access to other sources of information but don't make note that in contrast to most western nations, your "other sources" are controlled by the state assuming you're referring to Russian media[/QUOTE] I was refering to western sources, of course. Don't mind me anyway, i just have some personal problems and this often results in tearful posts like the one above. I think I'd better just keep off from conversations related to my country.