France regional elections: far-right nationalist party tipped for big gains - Polidicks

People in this thread seem to be confusing the party today, and the party decades ago. Marine Le Pen has reformed the party massively since 2011, after taking over from her father(Jean-Marie Le Pen). Her father was an unapologetic Nazi who hates what his party has become. I, personally, hope the National Front can gain some influence in France. If they don't, something much more radical will take their place in the coming years as more migrants arrive and more attacks occur. It also merits note that there has been an all-out propaganda campaign against the National Front by the media, and France's upper class who benefit from the established parties.

The "Front National" lead the score with 27.5% of vote followed by the "Les Republicains" (=right) with 27% of vote then: "Le Parti Socialiste" with 23.5% (left) then "Europe Ecologie Les Verts" (ecologists) with 6.7 % then "Le Front De Gauche" with 3.8 % (= communists / far left).

Dark day for France.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;49260107]Dark day for France.[/QUOTE] It's not like the other parties have been doing a great job.

[QUOTE=Jame's;49260162]It's it like the other parties have been doing a great job.[/QUOTE] Just because the other parties are doing badly doesn't mean that quasi-fascists should win as punishment... It's been a long time coming from what I can tell about french politics with their divided parties, inept leaders and inability to address problems with immigration and the EU, but the solution isn't to make everything even worse.

[QUOTE=The fox;49258066]Good, perhaps France will finally have a government that actually cares for it's citizens and the countries best interests.[/QUOTE] You think the European Union is a fascist organization but praise Marine Le Pen? You can't be serious.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;49260177]Just because the other parties are doing badly doesn't mean that quasi-fascists should win as punishment... It's been a long time coming from what I can tell about french politics with their divided parties, inept leaders and inability to address problems with immigration and the EU, but the solution isn't to make everything even worse.[/QUOTE] How do you know they are going to be worse?

It really sucks, because certain people, the more extreme if you will, are pushing far too left far to fast, causing any of the middling or centrist people to take a hard right. It's really going to screw up the next 20-40 years if we don't stop this madness.

Do I seriously need to explain why a pretty much fascistic party would do a worse job than, whilst somewhat inept, centre-left and centre-right political parties that seek to function in a liberal democracy?

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;49260365]It really sucks, because certain people, the more extreme if you will, are pushing far too left far to fast, causing any of the middling or centrist people to take a hard right. It's really going to screw up the next 20-40 years if we don't stop this madness.[/QUOTE] You can't be leftwing and oppose limiting and controlling the 800,000 immigrants a year plan. Only the right wingers aren't afraid of being called racist and unfortunately some of them are quite bigoted.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;49260376]Do I seriously need to explain why a pretty much fascistic party would do a worse job than, whilst somewhat inept, centre-left and centre-right political parties that seek to function in a liberal democracy?[/QUOTE] Without getting emotional, yes.

Front National strongly supports trade protectionism, which is ironic given her virulent opposition to the European Union, which supports failing French farmers through the CAP. Pretty much the one thing almost all economists (Keynesian, Classical and Neo-Classical) almost agree on is going against trade-protectionism. France suffers, in my view, severely from being excessively over-regulated in its labour and labour relations. Protectionism will only make this problem worse in an economy that desperately needs to diversify in order to escape from the stagnation it has faced in recent years. There has been almost no support for true protectionism for over a hundred years from economists in most instances, as it reduces economic efficiency and prevents a the economy of a country from shifting towards what it is most efficient/best at doing. Protectionism also increases prices for consumers, so although you may save jobs in the short term, in the long term you are hurting the very people you seek to help. Le Pen has described Putin as a leader who defends European heritage, and has strong links to his regime both politically and financially. Putin's regime is an illiberal, almost dictatorial one which oppresses minorities and invades neighbouring countries when they defy him. The Front National essentially supports him on all issues due to receiving funding from Russia. The heritage of Europe is not Christianity or oppression, in my view and I think in the view of most, but rather one of liberal democracy, which Putin seeks to undermine both at home and abroad. Front National would support this undermining of democracy by Putin due to his financial support. Le Pen opposes the European Union, as shown from the heavy involvement in the ENF group in the European Parliament (to give you some idea of how extreme it is, PiS and UKIP are not in it). I am no big fan of the European Union and the Euro personally. However, if Brexit is damaging, Frexit (?. Lol) would be catastrophic given that it is a member of the Eurozone and is even more reliant on the rest of Europe for exports, and as previously mentioned, is reliant on European Union subsidies for some industries. The French economy is already faltering and stagnant - leaving the European Union would lead to a full-scale depression. And of course, finally, is her anti-immigrant sentiment. There is a problem in France with integration of Muslim immigrants in particular. However, the measures she proposes are entirely counter-productive. In areas that Front National have control the local government in, they have continually provoked pointless attacks on immigrants, such as the banning of setting up kebab shops (IIRC) and aggressive videos in which FN storms into the homes of immigrants. FN aren't interested in preserving the heritage of the nation but rather in blaming immigrants for all of France's problems and in directing populist anger. The solution to the problems in France isn't aggression towards all immigrants (from a party that formerly denied the holocaust and supported repatriation of all Muslim immigrants) which will further alienate Muslims from their society. Most concerning to me, of course, is their general similarity to the policies of fascists from the 1930s. They're a populist party which supports protectionism, claims to defend the heritage of their nation and claims that all their problems are as a result of those with a different religion to their own, all whilst supporting an illiberal, dictatorial regime abroad. It's like we never learned the lessons of the 1930s.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49259110]Not every youth group is the Hitler youth...?[/QUOTE] I never meant to insinuate that BTW, it was just a terrible joke hence why I snipped it, moving on.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;49260736]The heritage of Europe is not Christianity or oppression, in my view and I think in the view of most, but rather one of liberal democracy[/QUOTE] To be fair, liberal democracy has only been the majority government type of European nations for less than the past 100 years. [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] Not defending Putin nor saying liberal democracy is a bad way to go by any means, though!

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49260946]To be fair, liberal democracy has only been the majority government type of European nations for less than the past 100 years.[/QUOTE] True. Maybe I don't understand the European debate about 'heritage' because I'm British, and I view that our 'patriotism' should revolve around the development of Parliamentary Democracy and Liberalism (though you guys one-upped us by creating a much more (but still not very) democratic government after the revolution), whilst the French may base their patriotism around the ideals of the revolution and perhaps de Gaulle.

[QUOTE=The fox;49258066]Good, perhaps France will finally have a government that actually cares for it's citizens and the countries best interests.[/QUOTE] Yeah the last time a nationalist party got prominent in Europe it did a lot of good for that country If WW3 happens because you guys elect another Hitler someone's getting a stern talking to

[QUOTE=Zeke129;49261266]Yeah the last time a nationalist party got prominent in Europe it did a lot of good for that country If WW3 happens because you guys elect another Hitler someone's getting a stern talking to[/QUOTE] This paranoia around right wing nationalists is silly. Its like those people that talk of Stalin, Mao or Pott to scare people away from left-wing parties.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49261288]This paranoia around right wing nationalists is silly. Its like those people that talk of Stalin, Mao or Pott to scare people away from left-wing parties.[/QUOTE] I would argue (accurately) that right wing nationalists historically have been far more dangerous than the people they claim to be protecting the country from.

FN : We hate foreigners, except Putin, please give us more money so that we can divide Europe and shill for you! [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11515835/Russia-bought-Marine-Le-Pens-support-over-Crimea.html[/url] [url]http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/marine-le-pens-front-national-borrows-9m-russian-lender-1476295[/url] [url]http://www.interpretermag.com/russia-and-front-national-following-the-money/[/url]

[QUOTE=Zeke129;49261266]Yeah the last time a nationalist party got prominent in Europe it did a lot of good for that country If WW3 happens because you guys elect another Hitler someone's getting a stern talking to[/QUOTE] many european nations had or do have nationalist parties for a very long time and guess what, there are no genocidal camps or war in massive scales in those countries

[QUOTE=Swebonny;49261302]FN : We hate foreigners, except Putin, please give us more money so that we can divide Europe and shill for you! [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11515835/Russia-bought-Marine-Le-Pens-support-over-Crimea.html[/url] [url]http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/marine-le-pens-front-national-borrows-9m-russian-lender-1476295[/url] [url]http://www.interpretermag.com/russia-and-front-national-following-the-money/[/url][/QUOTE] The euro-atlantic powers are dividing Europe, not meek Russia and some marginalized European nationalists.

This is going to end with everyone in Europe hating everyone else in Europe again isn't it?

[QUOTE=Zeke129;49261299]I would argue (accurately) that right wing nationalists historically have been far more dangerous than the people they claim to be protecting the country from.[/QUOTE] Yeah, let's just forget the German Revolution of 1918, the Chinese Civil War, the Taiping Rebellion, the Russian Civil War, and countless of left-wing terrorism groups. This is just coming off from the top of my head.

How the fuck is the Taiping rebellion left wing?

[QUOTE=Lonestriper;49261663]How the fuck is the Taiping rebellion left wing?[/QUOTE] The rebels had a proto-communist view. Also, communists under Mao Zedong liked them, because they related to their ideas. [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] Add Han Nationalism to that, too.

[QUOTE=Lonestriper;49261644]This is going to end with everyone in Europe hating everyone else in Europe again isn't it?[/QUOTE] just like good ol times

[QUOTE=goldenhue;49261814]The rebels had a proto-communist view. Also, communists under Mao Zedong liked them, because they related to their ideas. [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] Add Han Nationalism to that, too.[/QUOTE] They may have had some ideas that resembled future leftist thought but they were absolutely not left-wing. The Taiping's 'proto-communist' views amounted to never implemented land redistribution/classlessness which is trumped up by PRC historians for propaganda purposes. The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom was about as oppressive a theocracy as you can get.

[QUOTE=Lonestriper;49261920]They may have had some ideas that resembled future leftist thought but they were absolutely not left-wing.[/QUOTE] i'm not saying they were left wing, but i'm saying they were left wing lmao

[QUOTE=goldenhue;49261943]i'm not saying they were left wing, but i'm saying they were left wing lmao[/QUOTE] Ah yes, the Nazis = National [U]Socialists[/U] = Left-wing school of logic.

Personally I think something in between left and right would be the best. But is that something that we can really achieve now a days? Like it pretty much seems you can either be left or right, I just kind of want a bit of both.. since they all tend to have good points.