IDF Releases Photos of 'Weapons'(A.K.A. Common Items) From Raided Freedom Flotilla Ship - Polidicks

[QUOTE=abcpea;22299360]imagine if swat, unwarranted, broke into a house, started tearing the place up, and pushing the inhabitants around and accusing them of possessing illegal goods, and then when they fought back to get swat out of the house, ended up shot dead. and then later justified it with pictures of cutlery and furniture[/QUOTE] This, basically. With the exception of those slingshots (I've used identical ones for sport) I can't see anything in those pictures that couldn't be commonly found on any larger ship. Knifes and cutters are essential tools on board a sea vessel; tools for hastily cutting wires and ropes are needed even on smaller yachts. Most experienced sailors I know keep a carving knife strapped to the side of the helm pedestal. As for the hammers, wrenches pipes and powertools; the ship was transporting construction materials. You know, since the Israeli refuses to let enough supplies through the blockade to rebuild the damn city. The ship was checked for weapons before it left port if I recall correctly.

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;22305844]This, basically. With the exception of those slingshots (I've used identical ones for sport) I can't see anything in those pictures that couldn't be commonly found on any larger ship. Knifes and cutters are essential tools on board a sea vessel; tools for hastily cutting wires and ropes are needed even on smaller yachts. Most experienced sailors I know keep a carving knife strapped to the side of the helm pedestal. As for the hammers, wrenches pipes and powertools; the ship was transporting construction materials. You know, since the Israeli refuses to let enough supplies through the blockade to rebuild the damn city.[/QUOTE] Which is the point. They want to destabilise hamas so that the palestinians get a reasonable new government they can work with, rather than a bunch of terrorists bent on waging a pointless war, getting their civilians killed over a lost cause. Wars end either when one side is completey wiped out or learn to realise that both sides will never get the ideal situation, and need to learn to co operate and stop the hating, REGARDLESS OF THE PAST. This cant happen while hamas are in power, and people still try their luck with israel.

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22305878]Which is the point. They want to destabilise hamas so that the palestinians get a reasonable new government they can work with, rather than a bunch of terrorists bent on waging a pointless war, getting their civilians killed over a lost cause. Wars end either when one side is completey wiped out or learn to realise that both sides will never get the ideal situation, and need to learn to co operate and stop the hating, REGARDLESS OF THE PAST.[/QUOTE] Stopping reconstruction of the country isn't gonna make people turn on Hamas, it's just gonna make them even more pissed with Israel and probably support Hamas even more seeing as they want the same thing; removal of the blockade.

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;22305844] The ship was checked for weapons before it left port if I recall correctly.[/QUOTE] Yes, I believe the Red Cross was one of the groups that checked the ship. You're definitely not going to find a more neutral organization. [editline]01:23PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Im Crimson;22305943]Stopping reconstruction of the country isn't gonna make people turn on Hamas, it's just gonna make them even more pissed with Israel.[/QUOTE] It'll actually empower Hamas because downtrodden people are always looking for a way to get power and wealth and get back on their feet. What better way to get those things than to join a terrorist organization?

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;22305943]Stopping reconstruction of the country isn't gonna make people turn on Hamas, it's just gonna make them even more pissed with Israel and probably support Hamas even more seeing as they want the same thing; removal of the blockade.[/QUOTE] You see, Israel is facing a dillema- it could continue supplying the country with construction meterial, but they risk it being transfered to hamas for use in making rockets and bunkers. They don't want to take it.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;22305758]Well then, mister swat guy, what do you think they should have done in that situation? I think they should have just shot their propellor off and drag their ass to israel.[/QUOTE] well that actually does sound more sensible than dropping commandos into the middle of large demonstration, anyone of commonsense knows something like would of inciting violence.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;22305977]You see, Israel is facing a dillema- it could continue supplying the country with construction meterial, but they risk it being transfered to hamas for use in making rockets and bunkers. They don't want to take it.[/QUOTE] Maybe they need to realize for once that they can't have exactly what they want.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;22305949]Yes, I believe the Red Cross was one of the groups that checked the ship. You're definitely not going to find a more neutral organization. [editline]01:23PM[/editline] It'll actually empower Hamas because downtrodden people are always looking for a way to get power and wealth and get back on their feet. What better way to get those things than to join a terrorist organization?[/QUOTE] The red cross might check for weapons, but they wont search for other contraband. They're also not the israeli navy, who reserve the right to check what they like going through the blockade. They dont want them to get back on their feet. s they ll just buy missiles with the money, because they are led by hamas. Get that into your head, hamas doesnt want to work with israel, they want its destruction. As soon as hamas disappears, so will the blockade.

[QUOTE=Sporkfire;22305996]well that actually does sound more sensible than dropping commandos into the middle of large demonstration, anyone of commonsense knows something like would of inciting violence.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Glorbo;22305977]You see, Israel is facing a dillema- it could continue supplying the country with construction meterial, but they risk it being transfered to hamas for use in making rockets and bunkers. They don't want to take it.[/QUOTE] Israel's actions practically bred Hamas.

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22306015]The red cross might check for weapons, but they wont search for other contraband. They're also not the israeli navy, who reserve the right to check what they like going through the blockade. They dont want them to get back on their feet. s they ll just buy missiles with the money, because they are led by hamas. Get that into your head, hamas doesnt want to work with israel, they want its destruction. As soon as hamas disappears, so will the blockade.[/QUOTE] You're confusing Palestinian civilians with Hamas again oh and the blockade is illegal boyo, Israel has the right to jack shit

[QUOTE=Sporkfire;22305996]well that actually does sound more sensible than dropping commandos into the middle of large demonstration, anyone of commonsense knows something like would of inciting violence.[/QUOTE] Because firing at the propeller and not hitting other parts of the ship AT ALL is real simple task. Dropping people onto the ship does not incite violence. If they were really peaceful, theyd have let the commandos on then protested using not violent means.

[QUOTE=Sporkfire;22306017]Israel's actions practically bred Hamas.[/QUOTE] Clinton said it her self, "Israel empowers Hamas".

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22306058]If they were really peaceful, theyd have let the commandos on then protested using not violent means.[/QUOTE] Hmm, yes kind sirs, welcome to our humble vessel. Would you like to seize our supplies, jam our communications or perhaps arrest us? How about some nice tea? Verily.

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22306058]Because firing at the propeller and not hitting other parts of the ship AT ALL is real simple task. Dropping people onto the ship does not incite violence. If they were really peaceful, theyd have let the commandos on then protested using not violent means.[/QUOTE] Shooting down civilians is alot easier :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;22306001]Maybe they need to realize for once that they can't have exactly what they want.[/QUOTE] It's very hard. The people in Israel feel so cheated by Hamas that they wont approve. They just don't trust them anymore, expecially after they removed the settlements near gaza, pulling out a lot of civilians from their homes. The good thing about left-wing Israeli governments is when negotiation fails, you can't blame them.

[QUOTE=starpluck;22306059]Clinton said it her self, "Israel empowers Hamas".[/QUOTE] And it ll crush it, because hamas has no power whatsoever apart to scream its head off. Let them scream at the wall more while their people suffer.

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22306104]And it ll crush it, because hamas has no power whatsoever apart to scream its head off. Let them scream at the wall more while their people suffer.[/QUOTE] Because you can randomly 'crush' people without remorse or inciting action.

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22306104]And it ll crush it, because hamas has no power whatsoever apart to scream its head off. Let them scream at the wall more while their people suffer.[/QUOTE] Who's the one moaning about how evil hamas is? Besides it's not like Israel isn't a part of the problem.

[QUOTE=Hoffa1337;22306097]Shooting down civilians is alot easier :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Because that was the intent right. HURRRRRRRRRRRR. Derp. Fucking tool. [editline]07:32PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Sickle;22306123]Because you can randomly 'crush' people without remorse or inciting action.[/QUOTE] Doesnt matter if your guns are bigger. [editline]07:33PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Hoffa1337;22306128]Who's the one moaning about how evil hamas is? Besides it's not like Israel isn't a part of the problem.[/QUOTE] All the civilians deliberately targetted in suicide bombings, i believe.

So Deathbane, you think it's fine to choke off supplies to all of the Palestinians to destroy Hamas even though it'll kill tens of thousands of civilians

[QUOTE=Zeke129;22306073]Hmm, yes kind sirs, welcome to our humble vessel. Would you like to seize our supplies, jam our communications or perhaps arrest us? How about some nice tea? Verily.[/QUOTE] That is eaxctly what should have happened. Then if it turned out israel had broken the rules, they would have been in the clear. Instead they just give the israelis an excuse to seize them. Maybe if theyd given out tea, rather than metal bars, 10 people wouldnt be dead.

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22306198]That is eaxctly what should have happened. Then if it turned out israel had broken the rules, they would have been in the clear. Instead they just give the israelis an excuse to seize them. Maybe if theyd given out tea, rather than metal bars, 10 people wouldnt be dead.[/QUOTE] Maybe if Israel didn't commit an act of piracy 10 people wouldn't be dead.

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22306104]And it ll crush it, because hamas has no power whatsoever apart to scream its head off. Let them scream at the wall more while their people suffer.[/QUOTE] Hamas isn't gonna give in to any brutal methods short of their entire population starving to death. Are you just gonna say "So fucking let them"?

Watch out for those poles, they explode at the tip, dont'cha'know.

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22306198]That is eaxctly what should have happened. Then if it turned out israel had broken the rules, they would have been in the clear. Instead they just give the israelis an excuse to seize them. Maybe if theyd given out tea, rather than metal bars, 10 people wouldnt be dead.[/QUOTE] Maybe if your government weren't keeping an illegal blockade in international water while sending military ships to intervene dangerous wheelchairs 10 people wouldn't have died?

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;22306220]Hamas isn't gonna give in to any brutal methods short of their entire population starving to death. Are you just gonna say "So fucking let them"?[/QUOTE] Yes, because they voted hamas in, therefore its the will of their people. Israel did not do anything before the flotilla said it was going to break the blockade. Then action was taken. Also they arnt going to starve to death, thats a load of bullshit and is OTT, and you know it.

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22306198]That is eaxctly what should have happened. Then if it turned out israel had broken the rules, they would have been in the clear. Instead they just give the israelis an excuse to seize them. Maybe if theyd given out tea, rather than metal bars, 10 people wouldnt be dead.[/QUOTE] They boarded the vessel unlawfully. At that time they were no different from Somali pirates seizing oil tankers.

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22306241]Yes, because they voted hamas in, therefore its the will of their people. [/QUOTE] Yeah, and that applies to the Israelis as well right? They voted for their government.

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;22306251]They boarded the vessel unlawfully. At that time they were no different from Somali pirates seizing oil tankers.[/QUOTE] This is a matter of opinion, because its still not accepted it was 'illegal' for other reasons. I wont say either you or i are wrong, since nobody hear is a master at naval law, and it is more complicated than simply shouting 'international waters'. Instead, maybe you should answer me why this flotilla denied to unload its goods legally in port, submit to checks and then be allowed to transfer its cargo by land? Oh thats right, they wanted someone to get shot to create this storm in a teacup.

[QUOTE=Deathbane;22306241]Yes, because they voted hamas in, therefore its the will of their people.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they voted in the one group of people who promised to save them from the tyranny of the Israelis. I would have too.