IDF Releases Photos of 'Weapons'(A.K.A. Common Items) From Raided Freedom Flotilla Ship - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;22340842]Oh yeah, a source on the list would be nice.[/QUOTE] Found another source: [URL]http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf[/URL] Not limited too: [B]Prohibited Items[/B] sage flour cardamom sugar cumin sweetener coriander rice ginger salt jam cooking oil halva semolina vinegar yeast nutmeg pasta chocolate chickpeas fruit preserves beans seeds and nuts kidney beans biscuits and sweets lentils potato chips peas gas for soft drinks Burgul wheat dried fruit corn fresh meat lupini beans plaster powdered milk tar dairy products wood for construction margarine cement hummus paste iron frozen meat, fish, and vegetables glucose vitamins and oil for animal feed industrial salt empty bags for flour plastic/glass/metal containers medicine and medical equipment industrial margarine diapers tarpaulin sheets for huts feminine hygiene products fabric (for clothing) toilet paper flavor and smell enhancers baby wipes fishing rods shampoo & conditioner various fishing nets soap & liquid soap buoys toothpaste ropes for fishing laundry detergent nylon nets for greenhouses fabric softener hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries dish soap spare parts for tractors glass cleaner dairies for cowsheds floor cleaning fluid irrigation pipe systems cleaning liquid for bathroom use ropes to tie greenhouses chlorine planters for saplings insecticide for household use heaters for chicken farms coffee musical instruments tea size A4 paper salami meat writing implements canned meat notebooks canned fish newspapers sponges for cleaning dishes toys sponges for washing razors mopping rags sewing machines and spare parts cleaning rags heaters all canned food except canned fruit horses za'atar spice donkeys black pepper goats sesame cattle powdered chicken stock chicks

[quote]medicine and medical equipment[/quote] Hurr.

[QUOTE=starpluck;22340871]Found another source: [URL]http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf[/URL] Not limited too: [B]Prohibited Items[/B] sage flour cardamom sugar cumin sweetener coriander rice ginger salt jam cooking oil halva semolina vinegar yeast nutmeg pasta chocolate chickpeas fruit preserves beans seeds and nuts kidney beans biscuits and sweets lentils potato chips peas gas for soft drinks Burgul wheat dried fruit corn fresh meat lupini beans plaster powdered milk tar dairy products wood for construction margarine cement hummus paste iron frozen meat, fish, and vegetables glucose vitamins and oil for animal feed industrial salt empty bags for flour plastic/glass/metal containers medicine and medical equipment industrial margarine diapers tarpaulin sheets for huts feminine hygiene products fabric (for clothing) toilet paper flavor and smell enhancers baby wipes fishing rods shampoo & conditioner various fishing nets soap & liquid soap buoys toothpaste ropes for fishing laundry detergent nylon nets for greenhouses fabric softener hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries dish soap spare parts for tractors glass cleaner dairies for cowsheds floor cleaning fluid irrigation pipe systems cleaning liquid for bathroom use ropes to tie greenhouses chlorine planters for saplings insecticide for household use heaters for chicken farms coffee musical instruments tea [B]size A4 paper salami meat[/B] [B]writing implements canned meat[/B] notebooks canned fish [B]newspapers sponges for cleaning dishes[/B] toys sponges for washing [B]razors mopping rags[/B] sewing machines and spare parts cleaning rags [B]heaters all canned food except canned fruit[/B] horses za'atar spice donkeys black pepper [B]goats sesame[/B] cattle powdered chicken stock [B]chicks[/B][/QUOTE] HEATERS ALL CANNED FOOD EXCEPT CANNED FRUIt! [editline]09:12PM[/editline] SIZE A4 PAPER SALAMI MEAt! [editline]09:13PM[/editline] CHOCOLATE CHICKPEAs!

[QUOTE=Pegleg;22340471]How come no one's calling for a source on this? :|[/QUOTE] Sorry I got too caught up in the bogusness to post the source. [url]http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf[/url] GISHA - Legal Center for Freedom of Movement. [quote=GISHA]The following list is approximate and partial, and it changes from time to time. It is based on information from Palestinian traders and businesspersons, international organizations, and the Palestinian Coordination Committee, all of whom "deduce" what is permitted and what is banned based on their experience requesting permission to bring goods into Gaza and the answers they receive from the Israeli authorities (approved or denied). It is not possible to verify this list with the Israeli authorities because they refuse to disclose information regarding the restrictions on transferring goods into Gaza. It should be noted that Israel permits some of the "prohibited" items into Gaza (for example: paper, biscuits, and chocolate), on the condition that they are for the use of international organizations, while requests from private merchants to purchase them are denied.[/quote]

[QUOTE=starpluck;22340871]Found another source: [URL]http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf[/URL] Not limited too: [B]Prohibited Items[/B] sage flour cardamom sugar cumin sweetener coriander rice ginger salt jam cooking oil halva semolina vinegar yeast nutmeg pasta chocolate chickpeas fruit preserves beans seeds and nuts kidney beans biscuits and sweets lentils potato chips peas gas for soft drinks Burgul wheat dried fruit corn fresh meat lupini beans plaster powdered milk tar dairy products wood for construction margarine cement hummus paste iron frozen meat, fish, and vegetables glucose vitamins and oil for animal feed industrial salt empty bags for flour plastic/glass/metal containers medicine and medical equipment industrial margarine diapers tarpaulin sheets for huts feminine hygiene products fabric (for clothing) toilet paper flavor and smell enhancers baby wipes fishing rods shampoo & conditioner various fishing nets soap & liquid soap buoys toothpaste ropes for fishing laundry detergent nylon nets for greenhouses fabric softener hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries dish soap spare parts for tractors glass cleaner dairies for cowsheds floor cleaning fluid irrigation pipe systems cleaning liquid for bathroom use ropes to tie greenhouses chlorine planters for saplings insecticide for household use heaters for chicken farms coffee musical instruments tea size A4 paper salami meat writing implements canned meat notebooks canned fish newspapers sponges for cleaning dishes toys sponges for washing razors mopping rags sewing machines and spare parts cleaning rags heaters all canned food except canned fruit horses za'atar spice donkeys black pepper goats sesame cattle powdered chicken stock chicks[/QUOTE] Look at the source, that list has both the prohibited AND permitted things on it. In a related note, here's a source saying it was legal for Israel to attack the ship because of their intent to violate the blockade. [url]http://israelseen.com/2010/06/03/helsinki-principles-israel-was-in-the-right/[/url]

Can we get an UNBIASED source?

[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;22356063]Can we get an UNBIASED source?[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.vilp.de/Enpdf/e025.pdf[/url] You can look up the individual parts yourself, it's not like they're just making the Helsinki Principles up.

[QUOTE=Pegleg;22355954]Look at the source, that list has both the prohibited AND permitted things on it. In a related note, here's a source saying it was legal for Israel to attack the ship because of their intent to violate the blockade. [url]http://israelseen.com/2010/06/03/helsinki-principles-israel-was-in-the-right/[/url][/QUOTE] Yeah, no. That law doesn't apply because it's an illegal blockade.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22361226]Yeah, no. That law doesn't apply because it's an illegal blockade.[/QUOTE] Well, people say that quoting the Fourth Geneva Convention, but the problem is that Israel isn't a signatory of Geneva 4 and is therefore not bound to follow it, and as the UN hasn't said it isn't illegal yet, it still is legal, making the Helsinki Principles apply. That and since Hamas is still in power, they are considered armed belligerents by Israel, and are still subject to the blockade, which Israel has already said is not targeted at the civilians, but at Hamas. I'm not saying I agree with this, I'm saying it's legal, and the flotilla attack was legal.

[QUOTE=starpluck;22340548]Israel says the blockade is only for Hamas. The [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions"]1977 amendment to the Geneva Conventions protocols[/URL] prohibits the use of collective measures that do not distinguish between civilians and military.[[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932010_blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip#cite_note-sanctions_legal-16"]17[/URL]] This blockade, undisputedly does not distinguish between civilian and military (Hamas).[/QUOTE] While I would agree with that in theory, Israel is not the most trustworthy country in the geo-political sphere. If they were to give the supplies to Israel for the Israeli military to deliver, there is absolutely no guarantee these supplies will reach the people who need them. This has been a problem in other countries before, and I do not blame Turkey for not wanting to turn the supplies over. And, on a different note, what exactly is so bad about resisting armed and trained soldiers trying to board a vessel of unarmed humanitarian aid workers? Sticks and pipes and throwing screws are understandable, and not even remotely deadly given the situation. I know that if I were personally on that ship, I would have done the same, if only out of fear for my life--which, it turns out, would've been completely justifiable.

[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;22362621]And, on a different note, what exactly is so bad about resisting armed and trained soldiers trying to board a vessel of unarmed humanitarian aid workers? Sticks and pipes and throwing screws are understandable, and not even remotely deadly given the situation. I know that if I were personally on that ship, I would have done the same, if only out of fear for my life--which, it turns out, would've been completely justifiable.[/QUOTE] If they would have surrendered peacefully like the other ships there would be no unnecessary life loss. The soldiers rappelled down with pepper guns, I don't think the people on board actually believed the commando's intent was to kill them or harm them in any way.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22365308]If they would have surrendered peacefully like the other ships there would be no unnecessary life loss. The soldiers rappelled down with pepper guns, I don't think the people on board actually believed the commando's intent was to kill them or harm them in any way.[/QUOTE] Unless they were already shooting at them, which is exactly what everyone on board is saying.

Well that's no sufficient proof. I'm not saying that the videos released by the IDF showing the commandos were attacked prove that they didn't shoot first, but there's still no real proof that the IDF shot first.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22365575]Well that's no sufficient proof. I'm not saying that the videos released by the IDF showing the commandos were attacked prove that they didn't shoot first, but there's still no real proof that the IDF shot first.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The first soldiers on the ship were not killed, they were not shot at, they were captured by the defenders of the ship. Moments later another bigger helicopter landed more troops and this time they fired immediately at people and killed as many as they could so that they could reach the cabin and take control of the ship. I saw blood spilt on the ship and everyone knew that there was no weapons. we all knew the Israelis would intercept us and try to stop us, but we didn't think that they would open fire at the first moment. I have been shown the picture of a Yemeni man, and this is ridiculous, who was on the ship and most people know that every Yemeni in the world has a Yemeni style knife, that is a cultural thing and does not have anything to do with violence. I understand now that in Israel they are trying to make a big deal about that, saying that the boat was full of violent people and just because of that one man. [/QUOTE] Folk on the boat would like to disagree with you there. [url]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/06/20106193546785656.html#vall[/url] And did you just say that eye witness evidence was not sufficient proof? Never study forensics or law, innocent people will die because of you and guilty men will walk free.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22299115]You guys clearly don't understand. It's not the weapons that were suspected to have been given to the Hamas, it's the items used against the commandos boarding the ship. You can clearly see in this video: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2duPV9MQIc[/media] That the commandos were lynched by a big mob, they had to use lethal weapons to protect themselves, or they would have died.[/QUOTE] The metal bars and all of that is not the reason Israel wanted to stop the flotilla. It's times like Karin A that made Israel have to stop any shipment coming to Gaza. So some can claim it's humanitarian aid and it would consist weapons and explosives just like the hamas likes. So the reason Israel Navy pulled the convoy by force to Ashdod was to look in the ship for weaponry and then move the aid to Gaza. Here's a video that shows one of Israel's steps of inviting them to Ashdod without using force: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKOmLP4yHb4[/url]

[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;22362621] And, on a different note, what exactly is so bad about resisting armed and trained soldiers trying to board a vessel of unarmed humanitarian aid workers? Sticks and pipes and throwing screws are understandable, and not even remotely deadly given the situation. I know that if I were personally on that ship, I would have done the same, if only out of fear for my life--which, it turns out, would've been completely justifiable.[/QUOTE] The fact that they're armed and trained soldiers is exactly what's wrong with attacking them. They were told ahead of time if they didn't stop, they would be boarded and the ship commandeered. And exactly how is a mob beating you with pipes NOT deadly? Especially that one guy that got beaten with pipes then thrown overboard. I bet he laughed that off. And I know it won't make much difference waaay back here on the 14th page, but to the people one the front page making jokes about the IDF calling cameras weapons, the source said weapons and [i]equipment[/i].

The first few commandos who rappelled down were shown in the video to be brutally attacked. For example there was a group of about 8 activists beating a downed commando with metal poles, sticks, and folding chairs. They didn't stop attacking him even though he was downed, perhaps even unconscious. Another one was thrown off one deck of the ship to the other, that is no capturing, that is just brutal and barbaric. If the other soldiers who rappelled down later had to use lethal fire in order to save the lives of the attacked commandos, they had full right to do so. Also, yes, I am saying an eye witness wasn't sufficient proof. For example let's look at the following case: A man raped a woman who few minutes after the rape hit the man in order to capture and then called the police. An innocent bystander has walked up to the area about a minute after the woman was raped, and began filming the situation, what he filmed basically was the woman hitting the man. Now we have the woman, saying the man raped her which is why she hit him, captured him, and then called the cops, and the rapist, saying he didn't rape the woman and that she violently attacked him for no reason. Obviously we can't count on their words for it, and all we've got is the video showing her to have hit him. Would the man be accused of rape? I'm quite sure that he wouldn't, since there are no sufficient evidence that he has raped her. Also in the scene of the crime there seems to be a used condom, but the police can't tell if the condom was indeed used to rape or whatever, basically they only have her word for it.

snip.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22365843]The first few commandos who rappelled down were shown in the video to be brutally attacked. For example there was a group of about 8 activists beating a downed commando with metal poles, sticks, and folding chairs. They didn't stop attacking him even though he was downed, perhaps even unconscious. Another one was thrown off one deck of the ship to the other, that is no capturing, that is just brutal and barbaric. If the other soldiers who rappelled down later had to use lethal fire in order to save the lives of the attacked commandos, they had full right to do so. Also, yes, I am saying an eye witness wasn't sufficient proof. For example let's look at the following case: A man raped a woman who few minutes after the rape hit the man in order to capture and then called the police. An innocent bystander has walked up to the area about a minute after the woman was raped, and began filming the situation, what he filmed basically was the woman hitting the man. Now we have the woman, saying the man raped her which is why she hit him, captured him, and then called the cops, and the rapist, saying he didn't rape the woman and that she violently attacked him for no reason. Obviously we can't count on their words for it, and all we've got is the video showing her to have hit him. Would the man be accused of rape? I'm quite sure that he wouldn't, since there are no sufficient evidence that he has raped her. Also in the scene of the crime there seems to be a used condom, but the police can't tell if the condom was indeed used to rape or whatever, basically they only have her word for it.[/QUOTE] Not an eye witness account because he didn't witness the full event. And besides there's a lot of physical evidence for rapes, and really you think a rapist is gonna spend time putting on a johnny? "Miss stay the fuck on the ground while I unzip my fly and put this condom on god damnit!! you might have some dodgy shit about ya and I realy don't fancy getting the clap." :rolleye: Your disregard of evidence is fantastic, really I'd expect this from a really really shit lawyer.

Hey, it's my story, I can make it up to be as unrealistic as I want. And the eye witness account here is the rapist and the woman raped, not the guy who filmed the woman hitting the rapist. Also I mentioned that they couldn't find any physical evidence for rape.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22366277]Hey, it's my story, I can make it up to be as unrealistic as I want. And the eye witness account here is the rapist and the woman raped, not the guy who filmed the woman hitting the rapist. Also I mentioned that they couldn't find any physical evidence for rape.[/QUOTE] See your now using unrealism as an analogue to realism. Which frankly deserves a sledgehammer to your temple. You now effectively have a rapist in a Biosuit and some crying chick and some random dude filming it. :what:

I think what happened is: Israel fires some warning shots into the air prior to sending commandos in(you can see muzzle flashes and hear gunshots from the patrol boats in several videos). This riles up the passengers as the activists believe the Israeli Military's only joy in life is seeing Muslims die. So, fearing for the life of themselves and their comrades, they fought the Israeli commandos as they boarded and the Israeli commandos, wondering what the fuck was going on, defended themselves. Of course, that doesn't excuse the illegal boarding, but I'm positive that both parties felt they were acting in self defense when they got violent.*

Well, OK, fuck that. The eyewitness here is obviously biased and can't be taken as a credible source, it's not an innocent bystander who has nothing to gain by saying one thing or the other. Just like how you don't trust the IDF, I don't trust the activists.

I think the activists just wanted to get the aid to gaza while at the same time showing the blockade wasn't some invulnerable force, that it could be AND should be broken as it's crippling the people of gaza. So they used the fire hoses to try and keep the soldiers of the boots, then the commandos dropped in and started trying to stun gun folk after tear gassing them and so the activists got scared cause it was in-discriminant since there were women and children on board. Commandos saw them trying to subdue some of their men, and shit got hairy. People get killed and the commandos try to destroy evidence of it. [editline]12:55PM[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22366335]Well, OK, fuck that. The eyewitness here is obviously biased and can't be taken as a credible source, it's not an innocent bystander who has nothing to gain by saying one thing or the other. Just like how you don't trust the IDF, I don't trust the activists.[/QUOTE] So you don't trust members of the german parliament, or your own Knesset member? The fuck is wrong with you boy?

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22366277]Hey, it's my story, I can make it up to be as unrealistic as I want. And the eye witness account here is the rapist and the woman raped, not the guy who filmed the woman hitting the rapist. Also I mentioned that they couldn't find any physical evidence for rape.[/QUOTE] IF you want to make up stories and examples to this conflict, please use relevant facts. you're trying to compare apples to pears. it's like the guy a few pages back that used the example of some construction worker that wasn't wearing a helmet and got hit by a wrench. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22366335]Well, OK, fuck that. The eyewitness here is obviously biased and can't be taken as a credible source, it's not an innocent bystander who has nothing to gain by saying one thing or the other. Just like how you don't trust the IDF, I don't trust the activists.[/QUOTE] this is what this whole conflict is about. at this moment it's ALL about opinion.

[QUOTE=bravehat;22366374] So you don't trust members of the german parliament, or your own Knesset member? The fuck is wrong with you boy?[/QUOTE] Was the member of the German Parliament on the specific boat? Was he on the deck or was he hiding inside the boat? And yes I don't trust her, since she's a terrorist supporter. Just like I don't trust Lieberman who wants to remove all Arabic citizenships in Israel.

[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;22366532]Where do the switchblades, hunting knives and the Arabian dagger come from? I doubt they are being used in the kitchen.[/QUOTE] Because a knife has no other use than to stab IDF soldiers right?

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22366512]Was the member of the German Parliament on the specific boat? Was he on the deck or was he hiding inside the boat? And yes I don't trust her, since she's a terrorist supporter. Just like I don't trust Lieberman who wants to remove all Arabic citizenships in Israel.[/QUOTE] From now on, when I list a source, [B][U]READ ALL OF IT!!![/U][/B] [QUOTE]This was not an act of self-defence [by the Israeli army], but rather it was completely disproportionate - although we were counting on our ship being blocked and maybe checked. This was a very serious offence, this was a war crime. I personally saw two and a half wooden sticks which were used [by activists]. We had not prepared in any way to fight. We didn't even consider it. No violence, no resistance - because we knew very well that we would have absolutely no chance against soldiers like this.[/QUOTE] [url]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/06/20106193546785656.html#paech[/url]

[QUOTE=bravehat;22366636]"We had not prepared in any way to fight. We didn't even consider it. No violence, no resistance - because we knew very well that we would have absolutely no chance against soldiers like this."[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlSSaPT_OU[/media] Didn't prepare to fight huh?

Oh shit watch out!! they really prepared I bet the guy with the log even brought that from home. :colbert: that's a last ditch attempt to intimidate the commandos to stay off the boat and you fucking know it. And wow, high powered sling shot there, might even be able to kill a crow.