IDF Releases Photos of 'Weapons'(A.K.A. Common Items) From Raided Freedom Flotilla Ship - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Zeke129;22302596]I'll take your word for it despite usually ignoring anecdotal arguments[/QUOTE] Well, I don't want people to misunderstand me either. I don't think Israel did the right thing exactly, I want to say I'm "Not defending them" but it must seem like I am. I'm just stating the fact that those are fireworks, not flares and they're illegal in my state for a reason. Why they're on a humanitarian aid ship is beyond me.

[QUOTE=STeel;22302342]This ship was told several times not to sail into Gaza. Yes, the ship was attacked in international waters, but their direction was known, and if it happened inside the Israeli borders, none of the international hate would be any different. Why would Israel not allow aid workers with supplies to come into Gaza? Because that organization is associated with Hamas and other Muslim extremists. In addition, Turkey shares borders with countries like Syria, Lebanon, and there's a high chance that they had smuggled weapons from these countries, to send them into Gaza. [I][U]Israel did offer to transfer the supplies, and after a scan, they would send it in to Gaza, and the sail organizers refused.[/U][/I] And if you're going to say "Yes, because Israel wouldn't transfer them", this is far from true. Israel transfers food, gas and other supplies into Gaza on regular basis. They were given the best offers and all the reasons to cancel this sail and seek other ways to transfer the goods into Gaza. They were the ones who insisted on going in, they knew what was coming, and it was nothing but a provocation. The soldiers were planning to take over the boat quietly, and steer it to the Ashdod port, from where the protesters would proceed to the airport to be transferred back into Turkey, for free. But instead, this is what happened. Instead of blaming Israel in being "extremely violent", look at the fact that these soldiers were selectively shooting only the protesters that had been attacking them, whereas other countries wouldv'e just sunken the boat that was soon to be trespassing it's borders, without thinking twice.[/QUOTE] What what what ? Israel was told that a ship was coming and they were told several times to let them pass. You say Isreal transfers suplies on a regular basis. Thats true but the supplies are so little they sometimes finish before they can be distributed. And Isreal does not allow building material in to Gazza so the city is in shit from Israeli bombs and there isn't any way to rebuild the city since there ain't no supplies. The ships carried a lot of plaster to help them rebuild the city. Those soldiers were trained .. right ? Don't they teach to take prisoners ? Hell you even said other countries would sink the boat which is very wrong since ships belong to Turkey and Turkey is a member of the UN.

[QUOTE=JOMBIX;22302619]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1309259934074 [editline]06:12PM[/editline] Decide for yourself gentlemen.[/QUOTE] Yeah, That's like the 5th time it was posted. If you fire prior to entering on board in international waters, get ready to experience self-defense.

[QUOTE=JOMBIX;22302619][media]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1309259934074[/media] [editline]06:12PM[/editline] Decide for yourself gentlemen.[/QUOTE] I'd shit myself. Watching that I can't believe they have the fire control to not use their weapons that long. [editline]11:16AM[/editline] [QUOTE=starpluck;22302675]Yeah, That's like the 5th time it was posted. If you fire prior to entering on board in international waters, get ready to experience self-defense.[/QUOTE] You get boarded by soldiers. They obviously want to kill you, it's self defense. amirite? That's why they boarded guns blazing. They were there to kill everyone they could manage. I'm seeing it your way now.

[QUOTE=starpluck;22302576]You seem to have quickly believed the the IDFs story regardless of their past coverups. You only seen what the IDF edited and wanted you to know, you know propaganda. The only video there was, from the ship was immediately signal jammed by the IDF, cutting the video. All the recording devices were also seized. What's also amusing is that the deported activists (Greek) stated that the Israeli Commandos fired first, when interviewed by AP. They were also forced to sign a Hebrew document without the presence of lawyers or translators, about admitting that you broke the law. And yet you believe a edited video of the IDF that doesn't show anything prior to the video, to a video showing events prior to the raid that was later cut my IDF signal jamming and all the activists on ship. Everything you said was based off Israelis edited story, good job.[/QUOTE] Saying that this or that was a coverup in the news, is just not right in this type of argument. I could go ahead and say that the other side also doesn't give you some info to know, that could accuse them. I'm not saying that Israel chose a perfect way to approach the boat and prevent their arrival to Gaza. But if they chose not to sail in the first place, and accept the Israeli offer to transfer these supplies (As a real human rights activist would do, knowing that the hard way would fail), none of this wouldv'e happened. And based off footage that was also shown on the international media (And not only by the "Israeli propaganda machine") you can clearly see soldiers getting beaten up without shooting a single bullet, or even fighting back at all.

Again playing devil's advocate in this thread: - Planting things like AK's, RPG's, etc isn't a smart idea. It's too obvious, and doesn't tie in well with shown videos (from both sides). Besides, as someone else pointed out, a weapon doesn't have to be a military-grade firearm in order to be capable of causing damage. - Potentially stating the obvious, but some of the stuff there does look nasty if used incorrectly. - These are aid ships, correct? It strikes me as slightly strange as to why rather insignificant things like flares and saws are taking priority over things like food, water, etc. - I'm a bit sceptical of the whole "it's Israeli propaganda!" argument. Of course, I'm not retarded enough to think that anything released by the Israeli government isn't more likely to be biased/false, but that doesn't mean that it necessarily is. Also, it strikes me that no one is applying the same logic to the Palestinians. Shouldn't an unbiased decision treat all evidence with equal amounts of scepticism?

[QUOTE=starpluck;22302675]Yeah, That's like the 5th time it was posted. If you fire prior to entering on board in international waters, get ready to experience self-defense.[/QUOTE] Yet you haven't replied on how peaceful these peace activists are.

[QUOTE=Zarfa;22302665]What what what ? Israel was told that a ship was coming and they were told several times to let them pass. You say Isreal transfers suplies on a regular basis. Thats true but the supplies are so little they sometimes finish before they can be distributed. And Isreal does not allow building material in to Gazza so the city is in shit from Israeli bombs and there isn't any way to rebuild the city since there ain't no supplies. The ships carried a lot of plaster to help them rebuild the city. Those soldiers were trained .. right ? Don't they teach to take prisoners ? Hell you even said other countries would sink the boat which is very wrong since ships belong to Turkey and Turkey is a member of the UN.[/QUOTE] Again, they couldv'e chosen a wiser approach. The boat belonging to Turkey has nothing doesn't mean it couldv'e been sunken if it was trespassing the borders of any country. And these supplies aren't as little as you'd like to think. Israel does have a hand in making Gaza residents very miserable, but it's not in it alone. Organizations like Hamas don't leave an option but to close the borders and check each individual that goes in and out. There are inner conflicts inside Gaza between different organizations. Violent conflicts.

[QUOTE=David29;22302722] - These are aid ships, correct? It strikes me as slightly strange as to why rather insignificant things like flares and saws are taking priority over things like food, water, etc.[/QUOTE] How do you know they took priority over food? The IDF obviously didn't photograph the food.

[QUOTE=David29;22302722]Again playing devil's advocate in this thread: - Planting things like AK's, RPG's, etc isn't a smart idea. It's too obvious, and doesn't tie in well with shown videos (from both sides). Besides, as someone else pointed out, a weapon doesn't have to be a military-grade firearm in order to be capable of causing damage. - Potentially stating the obvious, but some of the stuff there does look nasty if used incorrectly. - These are aid ships, correct? It strikes me as slightly strange as to why rather insignificant things like flares and saws are taking priority over things like food, water, etc. - I'm a bit sceptical of the whole "it's Israeli propaganda!" argument. Of course, I'm not retarded enough to think that anything released by the Israeli government isn't more likely to be biased/false, but that doesn't mean that it necessarily is. Also, it strikes me that no one is applying the same logic to the Palestinians. Shouldn't an unbiased decision treat all evidence with equal amounts of scepticism?[/QUOTE] They're not flares, they're fireworks. I'm going to keep saying that until it catches on. Also what's with the gasmasks? First time I've mentioned that but it's a bit odd.

I find it amazing you don't consider a metal pole to be a weapon, OP. Christ, there must be [I]atleast[/I] 20 knives there alone. If you had a firearm and somebody came running at you with a knife, I can [I]guarantee[/I] you wouldn't hesitate to shoot them. I find it absoluetely incredible that people can even defend the actions of the protestors. I'm not a sympathizer for Israel. I think what they are doing to the people in Gaza is disgusting. But their actions in this case were completely justified in my eyes. Whether the weapons were metal poles and knives or pistols and bazookas is irrelevant. They can easily kill someone. And if you're willing to attack someone with A FIREARM, then you better be aware that they're going to put some goddamn bullets in you. Having looked at the photos. I can see Knives, hammers, sledgehammers, a axe (I think may be a hammer), wooden clubs and dozens of metal rods. Taking that into account, and the fact that I've seen the videos of the protestors violently attacking the IDF as the board the ship. I can honestly say that I believe the IDF did the right hing, and if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't have done it any differently.

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;22302683] [B]You get boarded by soldiers[/B]. They obviously want to kill you, it's self defense. amirite? That's why they boarded guns blazing. They were there to kill everyone they could manage. I'm seeing it your way now.[/QUOTE] Thats a reason to self-defense. You don't really get soldiers roping down the chopper to negotiate. Thats usually done with speakers and diplomats.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;22302766]How do you know they took priority over food? The IDF obviously didn't photograph the food.[/QUOTE] Fair point. But surely if things were so bad over there, wouldn't they fill a ship full of food, water and clothes rather than partially fill it with them and fill up the remaining space with other items? [QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;22302770]They're not flares, they're fireworks. I'm going to keep saying that until it catches on.[/QUOTE] Ok, but even so fireworks can still achieve the same effects as a flare. Also, how useful are fireworks going to be to people in Gaza? Do they want to hold celebrations or something?

The OP is biased, I read his source and then discredited anything else he said. [editline]11:24AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Zarfa;22302805]Thats a reason to self-defense. You don't really get soldiers roping down the chopper to negotiate. Thats usually done with speakers and diplomats.[/QUOTE] There was no reason to practice self defense unless they went guns blazing. Common sense tells you that humanitarian workers would not violently attack soldiers unless they were being gunned down. Which they were not.

[QUOTE=STeel;22302698]Saying that this or that was a coverup in the news, is just not right in this type of argument. I could go ahead and say that the other side also doesn't give you some info to know, that could accuse them. I'm not saying that Israel chose a perfect way to approach the boat and prevent their arrival to Gaza. But if they chose not to sail in the first place, and accept the Israeli offer to transfer these supplies (As a real human rights activist would do, knowing that the hard way would fail), none of this wouldv'e happened. And based off footage that was also shown on the international media (And not only by the "Israeli propaganda machine") you can clearly see soldiers getting beaten up without shooting a single bullet, or even fighting back at all.[/QUOTE] No, you don't get it. Israel released the videos to international media. Everything being showed right now, the videos, are all from IDFs POV. And like you just said, the video didn't show any bullets being fired proving that it was edited to make the IDF seem like the victim. We all know that now at least 19 died.[QUOTE=JOMBIX;22302741]Yet you haven't replied on how peaceful these peace activists are.[/QUOTE] You don't understand do you? Masked commandos fire on your ship in international waters, you raise a white flag and plead with non violence. They later illegally enter your ship, the activists later defended themselves.

[QUOTE=JOMBIX;22302619][media]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1309259934074[/media] [editline]06:12PM[/editline] Decide for yourself gentlemen.[/QUOTE] They seriously used Red Alert 3 music for that? :tinfoil:

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;22302809]The OP is biased, I read his source and then discredited anything else he said. [editline]11:24AM[/editline] There was no reason to practice self defense unless they went guns blazing. Common sense tells you that humanitarian workers would not violently attack soldiers unless they were being gunned down. Which they were not.[/QUOTE] Soldiers are entering your fucking ship. What do the soldiers do ? They fight. They don't transfer messages. They fight. They are not trained in negotiation. They fight. Its pretty obvious they weren't there to talk.

Calling any video that favors Israel "edited and fake" is quite pathetic. It's like, the bottom option you have when you can't have any other argument to put Israel as the evil side. This ship was told numerous times to stop, and the ship responded that it will keep going. This is when Israel boarded the ship, in order to take it over, and steer it to an Israeli port. Bad)-(and said something that I can relate to. I do not favor Israel in most of it's actions(Mind you, I do live there, and follow better what does it do in Gaza. And the news tend to be left sided and bias the news against Israel.) But this is one case when it's just right.

[QUOTE=Zarfa;22302905]Soldiers are entering your fucking ship. What do the soldiers do ? They fight. They don't transfer messages. They fight. They are not trained in negotiation. They fight. Its pretty obvious they weren't there to talk.[/QUOTE] Our Navy routinely board ships and they rarely turn violent. They usually board to visually inspect the cargo, which was what the IDF was doing.

[QUOTE=STeel;22302912]Calling any video that favors Israel "edited and fake" is quite pathetic. It's like, the bottom option you have when you can't have any other argument to put Israel as the evil side. This ship was told numerous times to stop, and the ship responded that it will keep going. This is when Israel boarded the ship, in order to take it over, and steer it to an Israeli port.[/QUOTE] The IDF is well known for attempting to cover up their acts. Currently, information surrounding the Flotilla was from IDF POV, they have a reputation for this. [editline]04:32PM[/editline] [QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;22302929]Our Navy routinely board ships and they rarely turn violent. They usually board to visually inspect the cargo, which was what the IDF was doing.[/QUOTE] Does your Navy fire prior to boarding and do so in international waters?

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;22302929]Our Navy routinely board ships and they rarely turn violent. They usually board to visually inspect the cargo, which was what the IDF was doing.[/QUOTE] And its ok to board ships with out permission ? Fuck dude Israel is asking for the shit storm.

[QUOTE=starpluck;22302952]Does your Navy fire prior to boarding and do so in international waters?[/QUOTE] How do we know they fired prior to boarding the ship?

[QUOTE=starpluck;22302827]No, you don't get it. Israel released the videos to international media. Everything being showed right now, the videos, are all from IDFs POV. And like you just said, the video didn't show any bullets being fired proving that it was edited to make the IDF seem like the victim. We all know that now at least 19 died. You don't understand do you? [QUOTE] When was the last time you saw someone get shot, live, in the news? Or on youtube for that matter? And this whole story of "they fired, we raised the white flag and then attacked" should be equall to the credability of the Israeli story.

[QUOTE=starpluck;22302952]The IDF is well known for attempting to cover up their acts. Currently, information surrounding the Flotilla was from IDF POV, they have a reputation for this. [editline]04:32PM[/editline] Does your Navy fire prior to boarding and do so in international waters?[/QUOTE] They didn't fire prior to boarding the boat. Nobody ever stated that. If they did shoot the boat before boarding it, why would the insert soldiers with a pistol at most, and they were told not to use it. For the media? Israel does not risk a soldier's life for 2-3 videos. And this is something I know not from the media, but from the numerous friends I have in the army.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;22303020][QUOTE=starpluck;22302827]No, you don't get it. Israel released the videos to international media. Everything being showed right now, the videos, are all from IDFs POV. And like you just said, the video didn't show any bullets being fired proving that it was edited to make the IDF seem like the victim. We all know that now at least 19 died. You don't understand do you? [QUOTE] When was the last time you saw someone get shot, live, in the news? Or on youtube for that matter? And this whole story of "they fired, we raised the white flag and then attacked" should be equall to the credability of the Israeli story.[/QUOTE] They usually censor it but they show it.

[QUOTE=Zarfa;22303044][QUOTE=Glorbo;22303020][QUOTE=starpluck;22302827]No, you don't get it. Israel released the videos to international media. Everything being showed right now, the videos, are all from IDFs POV. And like you just said, the video didn't show any bullets being fired proving that it was edited to make the IDF seem like the victim. We all know that now at least 19 died. You don't understand do you? They usually censor it but they show it.[/QUOTE] No they don't. They always cut the part when someone get shot. Speaking of which, the white flag on the ship was only raised after the soldiers switched to live fire. The live al jazira broadcast from the ship did not mention any stun grenades thrown before hand or shots being fired from IDF ships.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;22303064][QUOTE=Zarfa;22303044][QUOTE=Glorbo;22303020] No they don't. They always cut the part when someone get shot.[/QUOTE] Son, do you watch Israeli tv ? I've got bad news for you.

[QUOTE=David29;22303006]How do we know they fired prior to boarding the ship?[/QUOTE] The video from on board. Unfortunately, it was cut after 9 minutes since Israeli military censorship (Yes that's what it is called by Reueters, BBC etc.) signal jammed the boards communications preventing it from informing the media. [QUOTE=Glorbo;22303020][QUOTE=starpluck;22302827]No, you don't get it. Israel released the videos to international media. Everything being showed right now, the videos, are all from IDFs POV. And like you just said, the video didn't show any bullets being fired proving that it was edited to make the IDF seem like the victim. We all know that now at least 19 died. You don't understand do you? [QUOTE] When was the last time you saw someone get shot, live, in the news? Or on youtube for that matter? And this whole story of "they fired, we raised the white flag and then attacked" should be equall to the credability of the Israeli story.[/QUOTE] An investigation will be completed. So far all the deported European activists story contradicted with the IDFs and it matched the video on board. [QUOTE=STeel;22303025]They didn't fire prior to boarding the boat. Nobody ever stated that.[/QUOTE] They did.

From looking at all posts on this thread I can conclude that the ship was gonna have a massive rave with fireworks and everything and Israel decided to crash the party, that is not cool Israel :(

[QUOTE=starpluck;22303094]They did.[/QUOTE] Footage, please? The broadcast from al jazira, which was still there when the israelis went on the ship did not report or mention any of this.