101 Mc Donalds burger flipper arrested on unauthorized protest to raise minimal wage to $15/h - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44872178] not really, protests aren't supposed to be convenient, otherwise you're killing the point of it lol.[/QUOTE] They're also not supposed to be malicious. Otherwise they'll backfire or fail.

[QUOTE=davethestoner;44872514]In my opinion the minimum wage shouldn't ever go over $10/hr, I think it should be just enough for you to get by. If its high enough where you're able to live comfortable off it where the motivation to get a better job come from?[/QUOTE] Uh... You still need people to take these minimum wage jobs, so why would you want to make them as shitty as possible and motivate people to quit them?

[QUOTE=proch;44876984]They're also not supposed to be malicious. Otherwise they'll backfire or fail.[/QUOTE] Nobody's going to convince McDonalds to change with a handshake and a wink and a nod. Unfortunately, meaningful increases to the minimum wage and other legal avenues for bringing about labor reform are pretty much going to be a non-starter in the US for the forseeable future, so the only way anybody is going to get McDonalds to change is to make it too costly for them not to change. Block off the headquarters, stage protests that shut down franchises during business hours, damage the company's reputation; as a publicly traded company, which has a legal obligation to do the best it can to return a profit to it's shareholders, the only language that McDonalds can speak is the language of money and so damaging it's profit margin is the only way to communicate with it.

How many people saying it's fine that it's on private property because it's not supposed to be convenient would be 100% cool with some random protest group showing up on their doorstep, staying on their property, around their home, and preventing them from going to work? Or is it only when it happens to some faceless executive that you're fine with protests occurring on private property? We have a word for people showing up unannounced and uninvited on private property- it's called trespassing. The federal government protects your right to protest on [I]public[/I] property. If that isn't sufficient for getting your message across, sorry, but you don't have the right to infringe on other peoples' rights for the sake of conveying your message.

Yeah no you don't get it They knew they'd get in trouble and that's why they did it. Calling the cops on them wasn't wrong, but it serves their end goal

[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;44873082]$10.00 minimum wage would make canadas min wage look like shit[/QUOTE] Umm [img]http://i.imgur.com/jFocbIh.png[/img]

[QUOTE=Zeke129;44881184]Umm [img]http://i.imgur.com/jFocbIh.png[/img][/QUOTE] Yeah the amounts are bigger, but everything is more expensive around here. Plus the average provincial tax is ~13% if not skewed by the NW terrotories and alberta. Plus at the current exchange rate another 8% reduced. so take for example Nova Scotia. HST is 15%. $10.40 - 15% = $8.84 at the current exchange rate of $0.92 $8.84 - 8% = $8.13 So really at a cost of living rate min wage isnt that good up here

[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;44881995]Yeah the amounts are bigger, but everything is more expensive around here. Plus the average provincial tax is ~13% if not skewed by the NW terrotories and alberta. Plus at the current exchange rate another 8% reduced. so take for example Nova Scotia. HST is 15%. $10.40 - 15% = $8.84 at the current exchange rate of $0.92 $8.84 - 8% = $8.13 So really at a cost of living rate min wage isnt that good up here[/QUOTE] If you're only making minimum wage you probably also only have a part-time job and will most likely qualify for tax credits. I agree that it's a stupid system and we'd be better served by scrapping regressive sales taxes entirely, but it's an option that's there.

[QUOTE=catbarf;44880499]How many people saying it's fine that it's on private property because it's not supposed to be convenient would be 100% cool with some random protest group showing up on their doorstep, staying on their property, around their home, and preventing them from going to work? Or is it only when it happens to some faceless executive that you're fine with protests occurring on private property? We have a word for people showing up unannounced and uninvited on private property- it's called trespassing. The federal government protects your right to protest on [I]public[/I] property. If that isn't sufficient for getting your message across, sorry, but you don't have the right to infringe on other peoples' rights for the sake of conveying your message.[/QUOTE] Do you really not see the difference between harassing an individual at their home (for what reasons??) and staging a protest in front of a building of one of the largest corporations in the world about poverty and shitty wages that affect the livelihood of millions of people? Awful comparison. If, however, the individual in question was responsible for the well-being of countless people and he exploited them and treated them like shit, then yeah I'd be 100% cool with pissed off people showing up at his doorstep to complain.

[QUOTE=confinedUser;44873858]well if minimum goes up so does everything else.[/QUOTE] I'd pay an extra .07 cents on a box of macaroni if it meant that the people stocking those shelves and keeping the store open could at least have a [I]sorta[/I] livable wage. [editline]22nd May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=catbarf;44880499]How many people saying it's fine that it's on private property because it's not supposed to be convenient would be 100% cool with some random protest group showing up on their doorstep, staying on their property, around their home, and preventing them from going to work? Or is it only when it happens to some faceless executive that you're fine with protests occurring on private property? We have a word for people showing up unannounced and uninvited on private property- it's called trespassing. The federal government protects your right to protest on [I]public[/I] property. If that isn't sufficient for getting your message across, sorry, but you don't have the right to infringe on other peoples' rights for the sake of conveying your message.[/QUOTE] This appeal to emotions bullshit doesn't really hold any water here because [I]of course[/I] I'd get upset if some punks rolled around in my flowers or sat on my lawn or something, so I dunno what you're trying to achieve with this bit. And unless you work for a mom-and-pop shop, chances are the big company you work for can easily give workers more than 7 or 8 bucks an hour, they just wanna make as much as possible. The way things've been going for the last several years, it looks like the only way that's going to happen is if workers protest and refuse to accept shit wages. If it takes a few instance of civil disobedience and a couple of broken windows for that to happen, so be it.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;44882299]Do you really not see the difference between harassing an individual at their home (for what reasons??) and staging a protest in front of a building of one of the largest corporations in the world about poverty and shitty wages that affect the livelihood of millions of people? Awful comparison. If, however, the individual in question was responsible for the well-being of countless people and he exploited them and treated them like shit, then yeah I'd be 100% cool with pissed off people showing up at his doorstep to complain.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=milkandcooki;44882595]This appeal to emotions bullshit doesn't really hold any water here because [I]of course[/I] I'd get upset if some punks rolled around in my flowers or sat on my lawn or something, so I dunno what you're trying to achieve with this bit.[/QUOTE] The only people appealing to emotions are the ones talking up the poor employees protesting against the evil heartless corporation. The fact of the matter is that it's trespassing, and no amount of emotional appeal over who is doing the trespassing or who is being trespassed against or why the trespassing is occurring will change that. If you're fine with one form of protest on private property but not another, then you're just not being consistent in your reasoning. If you're fine with basic property rights being infringed only when you don't like the victim, then I think you've made your (hypocritical) position very clear. The point of [I]rights[/I] is that they apply to everyone, not just people who fall in line with the SgtCr4zyGuns Moral Code. If you protest on someone else's property, especially in a way that deliberately interferes with their livelihood, you may get arrested. Protest on public property, as all protest laws are expressly designed to protect, or don't be surprised when you get arrested. This is quite clear-cut. I am 100% in favor of increased wages for McDonald's employees and I am entirely for a dramatic increase in minimum wage, but this is not the right way to effect change.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44882595]And unless you work for a mom-and-pop shop, chances are the big company you work for can easily give workers more than 7 or 8 bucks an hour, they just wanna make as much as possible. The way things've been going for the last several years, it looks like the only way that's going to happen is if workers protest and refuse to accept shit wages. If it takes a few instance of civil disobedience and a couple of broken windows for that to happen, so be it.[/QUOTE] And I won't be surprised nor outraged when those people get arrested and charged for breaking the law, and/or sued for any permanent damage done. A noble goal does not nullify any laws broken, nor is it an excuse to be uncivilized.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;44882270]If you're only making minimum wage you probably also only have a part-time job and will most likely qualify for tax credits. I agree that it's a stupid system and we'd be better served by scrapping regressive sales taxes entirely, but it's an option that's there.[/QUOTE] all im saying is a $10 usd wage makes a $10 CAD wage look like shit

[QUOTE=davethestoner;44872514]In my opinion the minimum wage shouldn't ever go over $10/hr, I think it should be just enough for you to get by. If its high enough where you're able to live comfortable off it where the motivation to get a better job come from?[/QUOTE] I'd love to live where you do where 10 dollars an hour is enough to get by.

[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;44874071]Not really. Canadians have pretty extreme taxes compared to Americans. Adding up sales taxes our $10 can be worth around $8.50 before exchange rates. Even then most products are around 1-2 dollars more expensive just for being up here[/QUOTE] I'd say stuff like universal health care makes up for that difference.

[QUOTE=catbarf;44882770]The only people appealing to emotions are the ones talking up the poor employees protesting against the evil heartless corporation. The fact of the matter is that it's trespassing, and no amount of emotional appeal over who is doing the trespassing or who is being trespassed against or why the trespassing is occurring will change that. If you're fine with one form of protest on private property but not another, then you're just not being consistent in your reasoning.[/quote] Ill be sure to let the civil rights movement know they were trespassing when they staged sit-ins and therefore deserved getting clubbed and thrown in jail. [Quote] If you're fine with basic property rights being infringed only when you don't like the victim, then I think you've made your (hypocritical) position very clear. The point of [I]rights[/I] is that they apply to everyone, not just people who fall in line with the SgtCr4zyGuns Moral Code.[/quote] I consider the individuals right to a comfortable life, fair employment, and fair pay to be more important than a corporations right to private property in pursuit of profit. At least I [i]have[/i] a moral code. You however seem perfectly ok with stopping protesters with legitimate grievances with society because of some stupid black-and-white "trespassing is against the law so they are bad and wrong" reasoning. [Quote]If you protest on someone else's property, especially in a way that deliberately interferes with their livelihood, you may get arrested. Protest on public property, as all protest laws are expressly designed to protect, or don't be surprised when you get arrested. This is quite clear-cut. I am 100% in favor of increased wages for McDonald's employees and I am entirely for a dramatic increase in minimum wage, but this is not the right way to effect change.[/QUOTE] Please tell us all what the "right way" to enact change is. Its interesting how protesters are consistently criticized for inconveniencing people only and never on the merits of their protest.

[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;44883361]I'd say stuff like universal health care makes up for that difference.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't have a problem paying 15% extra for everything to get free healthcare if it wasn't for the insane markups already on some products [editline]23rd May 2014[/editline] Oh, and the fact that it isn't required by law to add hst and other hidden stuff (environmental fees) into advertised prices even on items as small as headphones. A $17.99 pair an run like $25.00

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;44885464]I consider the individuals right to a comfortable life, fair employment, and fair pay to be more important than a corporations right to private property in pursuit of profit. At least I [I]have[/I] a moral code. You however seem perfectly ok with stopping protesters with legitimate grievances with society because of some stupid black-and-white "trespassing is against the law so they are bad and wrong" reasoning.[/QUOTE] My moral code is that if someone has a right guaranteed under our laws for all people, like the right to ownership of property and the right to control who can access it as they see fit, that they deserve that right regardless of my personal feelings towards them. If you think it's fine to deny someone their basic rights because you don't like them, you're a hypocrite. [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;44885464]Please tell us all what the "right way" to enact change is. Its interesting how protesters are consistently criticized for inconveniencing people only and never on the merits of their protest.[/QUOTE] Protest on the street. Write letters to your representatives. [URL="http://www.infoplease.com/spot/marchonwashington.html"]Hold a public march[/URL]. If you think that all social movements have required infringing on the basic rights of others (and don't even [I]try[/I] comparing trespassing and preventing someone from working to civil disobedience of segregation laws) to enact change, then you need to brush up on your history.

[QUOTE=mark6789;44872602]$15 an hour to flip burgers.....lol I hate people like that.[/QUOTE] Obviously you've never worked in a fast-food kitchen. It's not easy work - it's fast paced, blisteringly hot (over 100 degrees and you usually have to wear some dumb uniform), you get to enjoy grease burns on your arms, etc.

Watch what happens when we replace these scumbags with robots, they'll be demanding a right to work saying ''THEY TOOK OUR JOOBS''! The bastards!

I like how this thread boils down to people who don't worship property rights and people who don't. [quote]and don't even try comparing trespassing and preventing someone from working to civil disobedience of segregation laws[/quote] You realize MLK was turning towards the labor movement and supporting strikers before his assassination, right? lol Civil rights has always had a strong connection to socialists and labor. [quote] then you need to brush up on your history.[/quote] lol

[QUOTE=ultra_bright;44888563]Watch what happens when we replace these scumbags with robots, they'll be demanding a right to work saying ''THEY TOOK OUR JOOBS''! The bastards![/QUOTE] You know that robots are inefficient for most types of jobs, right? Robots only increase the average quality and seamlessness of a product made on an assembly line. It's usually more expensive to use robots than human but depending on the industry (like car manufacturing) you'll get less defects if you use robots for certain jobs (thus less likely to get a lawsuit) but for the rest you employ humans. So for the foreseeable future, humans will always be cheaper than robots.

[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;44881995]Yeah the amounts are bigger, but everything is more expensive around here. Plus the average provincial tax is ~13% if not skewed by the NW terrotories and alberta. Plus at the current exchange rate another 8% reduced. so take for example Nova Scotia. HST is 15%. $10.40 - 15% = $8.84 at the current exchange rate of $0.92 $8.84 - 8% = $8.13 So really at a cost of living rate min wage isnt that good up here[/QUOTE] Having an exchange rate doesn't de-value the currency with the lower rate. Simply put, we aren't getting 8 USD. We are getting 10 CAD. Personally, I value 1 CAD at ~1.2 USD just because I'd much, much rather live here.