Tesla employee writes of poor working conditions, forced overtime, low pay
93 replies, posted
[QUOTE=TestECull;51802903]Here's hoping they get their fair compensation, but...eh, Cost of Living must be fucktarded if they can't make do on $21 an hour. I could support my entire fucking family on that. SOLO. What the fuck is going on in that part of the country where 40,000 a year isn't enough to live on?[/QUOTE]
Cost of living in the Bay area is [url=https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/san-francisco]absolutely ridiculous[/url]. A 480sqft studio apartment averages almost $2300 per month, or $27.6k per year. I guarantee these workers are rooming together and not starting families because there's no other way to make that work.
[QUOTE=Npc_Hydra3;51803078]As my father works in the manufacturing field not automotive, but manufacturing 17-21$ is on the lower end and 25$ is average of someone who has been working in the field around 5-10 years with no college degree, but 25$ in the bay area is pretty low and really depending on how they hire people even 25$ is low a lot of big corporations like that will hire contract for the first year and only actually hire the best of the contract pool after that year, but if they are contract making 25$ that's low most contract manufacturing workers in a big manufacturing setting make anywhere from 30-37.50 on average and if they are actually working for that company and not through a contract agency then 25-30$ is about right. The reason contract workers make more is they do not usually have benefits medical or otherwise and full time employees actually working for the company will have big benefit packages and bonuses throughout the year usually. So if that worker is contract 17-21 he is getting screwed and if he is full time actually working for the company with benefits then he is really getting screwed, not even mentioning how much higher cost of living is there than most places.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget the stock options that Tesla offers. Usually about an additional 15% of your pays worth every year.
[QUOTE=Morgen;51803597]Don't forget the stock options that Tesla offers. Usually about an additional 15% of your pays worth every year.[/QUOTE]
Yeah and most people don't look at different benefits and other bonuses/perks with a job they just see base pay which someone might have a base pay of 50k a year but with benefits and other bonuses/stock options really makes it around 75K+ if you add what your benefits are worth.
[QUOTE=OvB;51802679]People like Elon because it's not about making big bux. If profit was his goal he picked the dumbest most risky route to do it.[/QUOTE]
Seriously, this man created startups in two industries that are among the most difficult to enter as a newcomer. He could have easily made much, much more money with a more traditional Silicon Valley startup. I don't doubt for one second that the reasons he gives in almost every interview why he does what he does are really what he thinks.
Of course that doesn't mean that working for him is automatically a great and cosy job. I believe the reports that there is a lot of overtime and high expectations, but I think the ends justify the means. Especially because nobody is forced to work for him. It's not like there aren't hundreds of other companies in CA that would offer higher pay and/or a more relaxed work environment.
[QUOTE=Bradyns;51803112]They need the job.
Leaving a place of that 'calibre' without a reference to go with it is essentially occupational suicide if that is your specialty.[/QUOTE]
Tesla isn't the only company in the USA that builds electric cars. The other companies won't hesitate to hire the disgruntled employees.
Don't know why people are so happy to defend Elon, ye SpaceX is cool but he also co-founded Paypal and they always steal money.
[QUOTE=Canary;51803784]Don't know why people are so happy to defend Elon, ye SpaceX is cool but he also co-founded Paypal and they always steal money.[/QUOTE]
Not really his fault it turned to shit.
[QUOTE=Canary;51803784]Don't know why people are so happy to defend Elon, ye SpaceX is cool but he also co-founded Paypal and they always steal money.[/QUOTE]
Elon hasn't had responsibility for Paypal in 15 years. Elon was associated with Paypal for just 2 years. It's not fair to blame Paypals problems on him.
[editline]10th February 2017[/editline]
Besides, his company X.com merged with the company that owned rights to the Paypal concept, Coinfinity.
Ahhhhhh classical PSYOPS operation.
Wondering who put down them bills....
[QUOTE=Sonador;51803044]Good thing literally nobody was talking about 'leftists.'
Intelligent people criticize individuals for their actions, you know - sweeping people into a group or label because you don't like them or challenge your views/opinion is a pretty serious character flaw; especially when it's without prompt.[/QUOTE]
Well find me some people on the right side of politics who are making the same accusations, and then I might say this wasn't a partisan reaction to someone who was loved before (or atleast his flaws looked over) until he started being on Trump's cabinet.
why does it have to be the UAW? could the fremont factory workers make their own union? how could UAW represent the specific interests of the tesla workers better than if they created their own
[QUOTE=ChicagoMobster;51802655]Seems a bit sensationalist no? The injury stuff is fair as well as the payment, but Elon says the man saying this stuff is being paid to [B]instigate a union[/B]. He says the mandatory over time is only when they're behind and they stop near the end of the week, which doesn't seem that out of the norm, my girlfriend has to work overtime as well when they're behind on a contract.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah those horrible unions that let average workers have bargaining power.
[QUOTE=AJ10017;51802677]With how companies are lobbying against Tesla big time, it wouldnt surprise me if this guy was paid tons of money and is lying out of his ass to make Tesla look like a terrible company.[/QUOTE]
Probably, but with tight deadlines I doubt its the beacon of perfection many people make it out to be.
I've read that SpaceX has a pretty high turnover because of noncompetitive pay, but people in those fields don't have to put up with it unlike manufacturing, they can easily go somewhere else.
[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;51803871]Oh yeah those horrible unions that let average workers have bargaining power.[/QUOTE]
Yes because unions are certainly immune to corruption, you do understand that bringing a company like Tesla to their knees, legitimately or not, gives them significant bargaining power?
[QUOTE=Aldawolf;51802919]The article cites multiple suits that have been made in the past over Elon Musk's companies. Most people aren't going to file a class action lawsuit if they don't think they can win you know, and there's more in the article citing examples of overworking employees in the article. This isn't a one off suit, this is one of many against his companies all for similar charges.[/QUOTE]
I don't think think that's how court or truth works in general; "Someone made an allegation so it must be true."
[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;51803871]Oh yeah those horrible unions that let average workers have bargaining power.[/QUOTE]
Massive organized unions aren't a good thing. Workers rights are important but a large organized union isn't how to get there. If workers were truly being pushed past their limits as much as these allegations claim, they could all easily unionize themselves independently and get what they want without having to listen to a larger entity telling them what to do and who to vote for.
It's a little different for things like trades such as electricians and phone installers or welders. In those cases the massive unions help standardize costs for their services.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51802778]I have got to say, to see the sudden hate for Elon Musk just to have a positive impact on Trump's administration really shows how uncompromising some leftists are.
You would think being able to influence a White House meeting would be a foot in the door they would want, but I guess they are so ideologue they just think Musk was a hidden Trump Supporter.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry. I've disliked Musk even before Trump was elected.
[QUOTE=TestECull;51802903]Here's hoping they get their fair compensation, but...eh, Cost of Living must be fucktarded if they can't make do on $21 an hour. I could support my entire fucking family on that. SOLO. What the fuck is going on in that part of the country where 40,000 a year isn't enough to live on?
I'll root for the employer that won't literally work me into the fucking hospital, kthnx. Some rich guy's pipe dream about electric cars and privatized spaceflight ain't worth the breath carrying it if I'm drawing workman's comp and trying to find a way to pay for having my back pieced back together.[/QUOTE]
The cost of living in San Francisco is absurdly high. It's the most expensive market in the country, by a wide margin. The median property value in the bay area, for example, is about $1.15m, with mortgage payments in the range of $5000-6000 per month. Compare that to a market like Saint Louis, where the median property value sits at about $115,000 ($500-600 per month).
Those are localized figures, of course. The cost of living is lower the farther outside of the city you go, but that metropolitan hub still serves as an anchor point, and even the "low end" neighborhoods are crazy expensive compared to the rest of the US. The same property I bought for $60,000 here in Saint Louis would probably be $300k or so anywhere near the greater San Francisco area.
[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;51802972]Think about it: If low wages and poor morale would be true, why wouldn't the workers just leave the company?[/QUOTE]
Because this isn't exactly the best job market and unemployment is even worse.
[QUOTE=catbarf;51803577]Cost of living in the Bay area is [url=https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/san-francisco]absolutely ridiculous[/url]. A 480sqft studio apartment averages almost $2300 per month, or $27.6k per year. I guarantee these workers are rooming together and not starting families because there's no other way to make that work.[/QUOTE]
Yeah what the fuck is going on in the bay area when something unlivably tiny is that pricey? My mortgage on a 1,450 square foot 3 bed 2 bath brick home plopped onto 2.3 acres of countryside is only $750 a month. How the fuck can a 500 square foot apartment justify charging so much more? What the hell is wrong with landlords in the cities that makes them think it's okay to gouge tenants so heavily for so little space?
[editline]10th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51804136]The cost of living in San Francisco is absurdly high. It's the most expensive market in the country, by a wide margin. The median property value in the bay area, for example, is about $1.15m, with mortgage payments in the range of $5000-6000 per month. Compare that to a market like Saint Louis, where the median property value sits at about $115,000 ($500-600 per month).
Those are localized figures, of course. The cost of living is lower the farther outside of the city you go, but that metropolitan hub still serves as an anchor point, and even the "low end" neighborhoods are crazy expensive compared to the rest of the US. The same property I bought for $60,000 here in Saint Louis would probably be $300k or so anywhere near the greater San Francisco area.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't explain why, though. I see no logical reason for it to be that high. Is it just a matter of landlord greed or something?
[QUOTE=TestECull;51804152] Doesn't explain why, though. I see no logical reason for it to be that high. Is it just a matter of landlord greed or something?[/QUOTE]
Greed, population density, work force, local economy, etc. St. Louis is actually host to the greatest textbook example of differences in cost of living due to all the environmental variables I just listed. It's called the Delmar Divide. You should look it up.
[QUOTE=TestECull;51804152]Doesn't explain why, though. I see no logical reason for it to be that high. Is it just a matter of landlord greed or something?[/QUOTE]
It's just supply and demand. San Francisco is a highly desirable place to live. Beautiful weather, rich culture, socially progressive policy, vibrant architecture, beaches, entertainment, a strong job market, etc, etc. "Everybody" wants to live there, but there simply isn't enough room for everybody to do so. Thus, the cost of living inflates.
[editline]10th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=haloguy234;51804209]Greed, population density, work force, local economy, etc. St. Louis is actually host to the greatest textbook example of differences in cost of living due to all the environmental variables I just listed. It's called the Delmar Divide. You should look it up.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, exactly. The difference of only a few blocks within Saint Louis can be night and day when it comes to economic desirability [I](and racial composition, unfortunately -- Saint Louis is also one of the best examples in the country of the effects of redlining, blockbusting, and "white flight").[/I]
A single block can be the difference between being in "the nice part" of town, and "the ghetto," and property values reflect that.
[t]https://tedideas.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/race_and_ethnicity_2010_st-_louis.png?w=770&h=770?w=770&h=770[/t]
Red dots represent white families, blue dots represent black families (and/or minority families in general). You can trace that divide down individual streets. This is also a disappointingly accurate map of economic status. Blue-majority areas are economically struggling, red are booming, up until where the dots become sparser, at which point you enter increasingly rural areas.
I'm digressing from the point a bit, I think. What I'm trying to say here is that the location of a property is the single biggest factor in the value of that property.
"[I]Location, location, location."[/I] The one thing that can't be changed.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51804211]It's just supply and demand. San Francisco is a highly desirable place to live. Beautiful weather, rich culture, socially progressive policy, vibrant architecture, beaches, entertainment, a strong job market, etc, etc. "Everybody" wants to live there, but there simply isn't enough room for everybody to do so. Thus, the cost of living inflates.[/QUOTE]
Maybe I'm just an eternal country bumpkin but I don't understand what's so desirable about living [i]in[/i] the city VS living about 5-10 miles or so away from the city limit, out in the border regions between rural and suburban, where you're still able to capitalize on the culture and job market and whatnot without having to pay ludicrous living expenses. The traffic alone is a goddamn nightmare, as anyone subbed to Stanley Roberts's People Behaving Badly channel on YT can attest. And then it's jut...blah. City life. Too close to everyone, no space to yourself, can't enjoy hobbies like working on old cars, fuel powered RCs, or target shooting, you'll have the cops on your doorstep if you play a game like Fallout 4 past 8PM or so with speakers, you're almost forced into parking curbside which opens your ride up to getting sideswiped and/or trying to snake it into a tight and cramped parking garage...I don't see the desirability. You'd have to pay me to live in an environment like that.
If I were one of those workers I'd probably be one of the oddballs not clamoring for more salary beyond being able buy more model trains and video games than I previously could, mostly on the basis that I'd be commuting in from the desert around the city rather than the city itself. The working conditions, however...yah, that's something that can always be improved. And I'd be all for unionizing as long as the dues were reasonable and the union wasn't corrupt-as-fuck.
[QUOTE=TestECull;51804637]Maybe I'm just an eternal country bumpkin but I don't understand what's so desirable about living [i]in[/i] the city VS living about 5-10 miles or so away from the city limit, out in the border regions between rural and suburban, where you're still able to capitalize on the culture and job market and whatnot without having to pay ludicrous living expenses. The traffic alone is a goddamn nightmare, as anyone subbed to Stanley Roberts's People Behaving Badly channel on YT can attest. And then it's jut...blah. City life. Too close to everyone, no space to yourself, can't enjoy hobbies like working on old cars, fuel powered RCs, or target shooting, you'll have the cops on your doorstep if you play a game like Fallout 4 past 8PM or so with speakers, you're almost forced into parking curbside which opens your ride up to getting sideswiped and/or trying to snake it into a tight and cramped parking garage...I don't see the desirability. You'd have to pay me to live in an environment like that.
If I were one of those workers I'd probably be one of the oddballs not clamoring for more salary beyond being able buy more model trains and video games than I previously could, mostly on the basis that I'd be commuting in from the desert around the city rather than the city itself. The working conditions, however...yah, that's something that can always be improved. And I'd be all for unionizing as long as the dues were reasonable and the union wasn't corrupt-as-fuck.[/QUOTE]
Another thing to remember is that most of the more expensive locations and housing are generally nicer looking. Houses and apartments near a beach for example aren't going to look the same as a house in the middle of the country even though on paper they are identical homes. Location alone is the biggest deciding factor in property value, and location reflects all the other variables both myself and BDA mentioned.
You may not want to live in a big city but for a lot of people they may not have a choice. Lots and lots of career opportunities exist in densely populated urban environments, and the demand for housing drives up the cost. Take Manhattan for example. Insanely high cost of living out there. Most people who are smart don't even own cars because they can't park them anywhere. They either ride bikes, walk, or rely on city transportation.
Supply and demand affects the housing market just as much as any other market.
I agree with you, it's pretty silly. But it's like that for a reason. If housing was as cheap there as it was in more rural or less concentrated areas then imagine how many folks would jump at the chance to live in those areas. Housing costs are a way of organizing people based on their socioeconomic status. If I could buy a house on the beach in California for $60,000 I'd move there in a heartbeat that's for damn sure. Not just for the location, but for the business and career opportunities as well.
[QUOTE=TestECull;51804637]Maybe I'm just an eternal country bumpkin but I don't understand what's so desirable about living [i]in[/i] the city VS living about 5-10 miles or so away from the city limit, out in the border regions between rural and suburban, where you're still able to capitalize on the culture and job market and whatnot without having to pay ludicrous living expenses. The traffic alone is a goddamn nightmare, as anyone subbed to Stanley Roberts's People Behaving Badly channel on YT can attest. And then it's jut...blah. City life. Too close to everyone, no space to yourself, can't enjoy hobbies like working on old cars, fuel powered RCs, or target shooting, you'll have the cops on your doorstep if you play a game like Fallout 4 past 8PM or so with speakers, you're almost forced into parking curbside which opens your ride up to getting sideswiped and/or trying to snake it into a tight and cramped parking garage...I don't see the desirability. You'd have to pay me to live in an environment like that.
If I were one of those workers I'd probably be one of the oddballs not clamoring for more salary beyond being able buy more model trains and video games than I previously could, mostly on the basis that I'd be commuting in from the desert around the city rather than the city itself. The working conditions, however...yah, that's something that can always be improved. And I'd be all for unionizing as long as the dues were reasonable and the union wasn't corrupt-as-fuck.[/QUOTE]
I'm with you on that, for the most part. I really love city life in short bursts, but longer term I'd prefer something a bit more rural. Different strokes for different folks, though. For those who can afford it, San Francisco is one of the greatest cultural hubs of the country, and that makes it worth the cost for them.
[QUOTE=ChicagoMobster;51802655]Seems a bit sensationalist no? The injury stuff is fair as well as the payment, but Elon says the man saying this stuff is being paid to instigate a union. He says the mandatory over time is only when they're behind and they stop near the end of the week, which doesn't seem that out of the norm, my girlfriend has to work overtime as well when they're behind on a contract.[/QUOTE]
Same for me.
I make boilers at Bosch, and the damn machines get fucked almost every week. This results in a shitload of overtime. This week we worked 2 extra hours in 2 days (although it was gonna be for 3 days), and next week we're gonna work an extra hour every single day.
And thats not counting saturdays. The only way for us to have a free saturday, is to have something break down apparently.
Still, from one side, I like Musk, but from the other, we have to admit he IS a corporate bilionaire as said. Still, probably one of the better ones out there. And to add to that, I highly doubt many of the problems listed here are straight up his fault. It's not like he goes to every single assembly line and boss them around himself, is it?
[QUOTE=OvB;51802716]People have been cancelling model 3 orders and calling Elon a racist. It actually provoked a Twitter tirade. Definitely worth reading if you look at his replies.
[Media]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/828291190965551106[/media]
[Media]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/827925653022453760[/media][/QUOTE]
Imagine being such a fucking baby you cancel a preorder over someone trying to reduce the oncoming damage by the government.
Do these fucking cunts not realize that attitude is going to doom us?
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51806862]Imagine being such a fucking baby you cancel a preorder over someone trying to reduce the oncoming damage by the government.
Do these fucking cunts not realize that attitude is going to doom us?[/QUOTE]
Like I said before. The root of everything wrong in society isn't the left or right. Its idiots, crazies and assholes.
[QUOTE=TestECull;51804152]How the fuck can a 500 square foot apartment justify charging so much more? What the hell is wrong with landlords in the cities that makes them think it's okay to gouge tenants so heavily for so little space?[/QUOTE]
Demand. People will pay absurd prices to live there, whether they rent or own because of the niceness of the area, and career opportunities there. You don't just build more land (OK.. you can do dredging stuff in some niche circumstances, but that is ludicrously expensive and the exception, not the rule). That means prices go up.
It has nothing to do with landlords price gouging. Quite the opposite in fact considering that the bay area has some of the strongest tenant rights in the entire country, and California as a whole is pretty high on that list as well.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51802664]the common man[/QUOTE]
Care to share some of that cheese?
How is that title even allowed? It's very misleading, "Tesla has Fallen" makes it sound like they went bankrupt.
Lmao "anti-worker" go back to r/fullcommunism.
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