Turkish military F-4 plane 'vanishes' near Syria border - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Disotrtion;36448482]Turkey has a superior military so if it does come to conflict, Syria will most likely surrender. Maroon Berets, get some today.[/QUOTE] That is completely and utterly ridiculous. This is Assad we're talking about; none of his decisions up to this point have been anywhere near rational, so why should he start now?

[QUOTE=Apache249;36448737]Hey man, air to air combat is somewhere along the lines of the ultimate spectator sport.[/QUOTE] It's nothing like in the movies.

[QUOTE=Apache249;36448737]Hey man, air to air combat is somewhere along the lines of the ultimate spectator sport.[/QUOTE] Case in point: [img]http://justpic.info/images/9942/51pFVzGoAeL.jpg[/img]

Yeah, yeah, yeah BVR with engagements lasting about thirty seconds and whatnot. Don't take what I said too seriously.

[QUOTE=Apache249;36448912]Yeah, yeah, yeah BVR with engagements lasting about thirty seconds and whatnot. Don't take what I said too seriously.[/QUOTE] and what if the BVR does not work as usual?

[QUOTE=Chernarus;36449045]and what if the BVR does not work as usual?[/QUOTE] We're not in the era of AIM-4 Falcons anymore, man. [editline]22nd June 2012[/editline] but yeah, if it happens to just veer off into the distance, get close and shove an AIM-9 up their tailpipe.

[QUOTE=Dacheet;36444057]Al-Assad has denounced you![/QUOTE] You'll pay for this in time.

[QUOTE=Apache249;36449061]We're not in the era of AIM-4 Falcons anymore, man. [editline]22nd June 2012[/editline] but yeah, if it happens to just veer off into the distance, get close and shove an AIM-9 up their tailpipe.[/QUOTE] Wouldent the mig have the advantage in a aim-9 distance fight.

[QUOTE=ewitwins;36448755]That is completely and utterly ridiculous. This is Assad we're talking about; none of his decisions up to this point have been anywhere near rational, so why should he start now?[/QUOTE] He's fighting a civil war, why would he want to wage a secondary conflict. Also his tactical moves are rational, because he is waging a war of genocide methodically moving through towns and cities exterminating Shiites and other dissenters to Alawite rule. Hence why to you it appears his moves are madness. Do not think Assad has a death wish, he is by no means going to die like Hitler locked in a bunker as his capital falls. If any thing he'll probably try to run or squeeze his way out of this. Like Gaddafi did. (EDIT: Tried to do.) It's pretty unlikely that a Turkey-Syrian conflict would escalate anyways, I was just saying Turkey's military might and expertise> Syria's. Syria would be forced to capitulate.

[QUOTE=Benata;36446892]Though the situation about Turkey might be different because the arms for Syria aren't "smuggled" since russia brings them to Syria directly by ships. Same for USA, thru N.Iraq and Al-Qaeda supports. Syria is helping us reclaim the F4, which was shot. Other than that people in Turkey are fine, Internet defence force (!) is full at panic, creating scenarios and shit. Adding on: There are rumors that 39th Mechanized Infantry Company has passed Yayladagh and is entering Syria. Video of the F4 being downed. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HdIEmyvyJYo[/url] Couldn't see shit, It seems like jobless bastards shoot it for fun.[/QUOTE] Jesus look at the comments for that video! It's like every anti american bozo with a computer got on and preached how its a western conspiracy.

[QUOTE=Chernarus;36449218]Wouldent the mig have the advantage in a aim-9 distance fight.[/QUOTE] Absolutely not. The MiG-21 is a 2nd-3rd generation fighter designed with only one thing in mind, Mach 2. It's low wing surface area causes high wing loading which causes poor maneuverability. Combine this with poor visibility from non bubble-style cockpit and an IR signature the size of the sun, and you'll find that any 4th, 4.5th, or 5th generation fighter would easily slaughter the MiG-21 in a dogfight.

[QUOTE=Disotrtion;36449303]-snip-[/QUOTE] Gaddafi could run to Algeria. Assad can run to: Lebanon Lebanon runs a tight ship and is not letting any Syrians through the airtight borders, aside from refugees Israel Lolno Iraq Then what? Jordan Staunch UK ally? Scratch that off. Turkey Part of NATO of course. He has literally no shot at getting out if it gets out of hands. Assad HAS to stand and fight.

New update, apparently they're still missing two pilots and search and rescue is still going on: [url]http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/06/20126221721460173.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Jsm;36448129]BBC are reporting that Syria has announced they shot it down. [URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18561219[/URL] So what difference does this actually make, could NATO act under article 5? My little understanding of it makes me feel that it is an attack on Turkey.[/QUOTE] Eh why was a war machine in their space to begin with?

[QUOTE=C47;36452296]Eh why was a war machine in their space to begin with?[/QUOTE] Turkey say it wasn't, Syria say it was.

[QUOTE]Turkish media said the plane, an F-4 jet, crashed in Syria or Syrian territorial waters.[/QUOTE] Well it was obviously shot down by Assad's forces with a Russian made (and supplied) anti-air missile.

So what are the chances this will evoke a response from NATO? From what it sounds like the U.S. has been prepped to intervene for a while and this looks like just the sort of trigger that they've been waiting for.

[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;36452838]Turkey say it wasn't, Syria say it was.[/QUOTE] Actually Turkey says [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18562210"]it may have[/URL]. [editline]23rd June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DamagePoint;36453423]So what are the chances this will evoke a response from NATO? From what it sounds like the U.S. has been prepped to intervene for a while and this looks like just the sort of trigger that they've been waiting for.[/QUOTE] Zero.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;36453497] Zero.[/QUOTE] I sure hope so. Turkey says they're already prepping to take measures against Syria, hopefully NATO will not be dragged in as well.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;36453497]Actually Turkey says [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18562210"]it may have[/URL].[/quote] This is the important point. If it turns out that they did fly into Syrian airspace, Turkey is at fault here. I see absolutely no issue with Syria firing on a jet in their territory, for all they knew it could have been an attack.

[QUOTE=Tony;36454818]This is the important point. If it turns out that they did fly into Syrian airspace, Turkey is at fault here. I see absolutely no issue with Syria firing on a jet in their territory, for all they knew it could have been an attack.[/QUOTE] This is probably just another false flag to try and justify bringing NATO countries into another war.

[QUOTE=Zambies!;36451446]Gaddafi could run to Algeria. Assad can run to: Lebanon Lebanon runs a tight ship and is not letting any Syrians through the airtight borders, aside from refugees Israel Lolno Iraq Then what? Jordan Staunch UK ally? Scratch that off. Turkey Part of NATO of course. He has literally no shot at getting out if it gets out of hands. Assad HAS to stand and fight.[/QUOTE] Iran support's Assad, and sends cargo flights full of munitions over Iraq (who has no air force/air defence). If Assad wanted to flee he could just fly over Iraq into Iran. Also Hezbollah supports Assad, they could smuggle him into Lebanon and shelter him there. Russia is also an Assad ally and they have a base in Tartus. There are some options. Also you're wrong that Lebanon "runs a tight ship" Hezbollah and FSA regularly violate the border and there have even been clashes inside of Lebanon. FSA has even trafficked arms through the border. And you're wrong about Iraq, Assad would never run there, the north is populated by AQ and FSA sympathizers and insurgents who would love to behead him. And Iraq's govt. is supposedly anti-Iranian.

[QUOTE=Jsm;36448129]BBC are reporting that Syria has announced they shot it down. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18561219[/url] So what difference does this actually make, could NATO act under article 5? My little understanding of it makes me feel that it is an attack on Turkey.[/QUOTE]Depends what side of the border the plane was at and where it was heading.

[QUOTE=Disotrtion;36455632]-snip-[/QUOTE] The ING has AA weapons. What I mean by "Then what?" is that he could probably get across the border, but then where could he go. Much like the point you raised. [editline]23rd June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Shocky;36454849]This is probably just another false flag to try and justify bringing NATO countries into another war.[/QUOTE] false flag ww3 bush cheney iraq illuminati secrets prepare fema camps

[QUOTE=Zambies!;36455816]The ING has AA weapons. What I mean by "Then what?" is that he could probably get across the border, but then where could he go. Much like the point you raised. [/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/air-defence-equipment.htm"]Nope, Iraq doesn't have shit.[/URL] But I get what you are saying.

Spoke a NATO military official today who attends NAC meetings every now and then, although not an official councilor. The NAC is having an emergency meeting today regarding the issue, and he believes that action will be taken.

[QUOTE=Zambies!;36455816]The ING has AA weapons. What I mean by "Then what?" is that he could probably get across the border, but then where could he go. Much like the point you raised. [editline]23rd June 2012[/editline] false flag ww3 bush cheney iraq illuminati secrets prepare fema camps[/QUOTE] I know Facepunch doesn't like the term "false flag", although it sums up pretty much what this situation is in regards to the jet being shot down.

[QUOTE=Chief Martini;36456408]-snip-[/QUOTE] That might be OPSEC, snip that.

Updated the OP