Couple sues after finding their engagement photo in an anti-gay marriage ad
106 replies, posted
It's all about how you were raised. I have a gay friend, who's dad is a preacher. And guess what? His dad loves him more than anything in this world. And my friend himself is a christian. His dad was not brought up to spread hate, he was brought up to preach peace and love.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;37916711]Nope.
Common law, 15th century England, has no relevant biblical precedent. Take a fucking history class.
[/quote]
I find it amusing that you're jumping to insulting me so fast. Did your so-praised history classes not teach you how to present points in a civil manner? Common Law is mostly social interaction, much of which was prescribed with Biblical foundation, such as the three day grace period for contracts. Very much Biblical, very much Law.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;37916711]
You're going to run into explicit denial of what you just said citing anyone who ever had a hand in the Federal or a state constitution.
Again, take a fucking history class.
[/quote]
You seem to have taken my words in a way I did not mean them to be. If you read in a time-relevant dictionary, you'd find that 'Church' is not defined as the Christian church, but rather as a group of men congregating upon a certain belief or thing. Through this, I'd assume it to be preventative of a 'mob-rules'-esque government.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;37916711]
Your reasoning is patently absurd.
"Valve doesn't explicitly state they aren't officially Muslim, so they must be."
The law enforces a separation, Jefferson's comments on separation being cited. That it wasn't defined was because back then people knew how to fucking read.
[I]Take a fucking history class.[/I]
[/quote]
The law is what the law is written to be, not what is presumed to be and certainly not what is assumed to be an effect of something entirely different. For instance, if you read in an Affidavit of Truth from a relevant time period which you may be able to find at your local County Recorder's Office, you'll find that most of these Affidavits begin with something along the lines of "I, (Given name of the man here), a white Christian male living upon the land of (address), do depose and say the following". Your example, then, is patently absurd, considering Valve does not state itself to be of any religion, and one cannot therefore assume that they are of all religions.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;37916711]
This is so mind-bogglingly wrong I can't even start with it.
Oh, wait.
[B]Go take a fucking history class![/B][/QUOTE]
In turn I'd encourage you to find a copy of Blackstone's Commentaries and give it a good read. It's actually quite interesting. Further I'd recommend Black's Law Dictionary, Second edition and where necessary the Third Edition, and Bouvier's Dictionaries (I believe the second and third should do, and if not the fourth will be the most encompassing) as the dates are most relevant to the discussion at hand. [b]A History class will teach you naught on this subject[/b], rather I think you meant "Go take a law class".
Do note that I am neither for or against gay marriage or any such civil dispute. I'd ask you to keep it civil and polite, but I get the feeling that would... Well, be a fruitless endeavour.
[QUOTE=Livewire2440;37911387]Why is it so hard for these people to understand that paedophilia and rape are completely different than being gay.[/QUOTE]
Cause the day gays become unpopular and everyone turns straight again the lone wolfs will have no one else to prey on cept little boys. Don't worry about the girls, just think of it as pre-conditioning before making it to the kitchen stage.
Yep, I'm going to hell.
[QUOTE=find me;37917783]Cause the day gays become unpopular and everyone turns straight again the lone wolfs will have no one else to prey on cept little boys. Don't worry about the girls, just think of it as pre-conditioning before making it to the kitchen stage.
[/QUOTE]
what
i'm trying to express how horrid this is but all I want to type is eiggjuhghhsdhg
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;37913484]
[B]I do not have anything against homosexuals though, and i really think those people who stole that picture should be reprimanded.[/B]
Actually i have a lesbian friend, she's one nice person.
[editline]4th October 2012[/editline]
Im an atheist but still against same-sex marriage, since its basically one of the things Christianity forbids. Its like making hotdogs mandatory at a Chanukkah part.
No offense to anybody intended. Rate boxes.[/QUOTE]
No offense to you, but the bible was written 2000~ years ago, it shouldn't have much bearing on civil rights today. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it may be a trifle outdated.
Second, your analogy is terrible. Hotdogs are legal, but no one is forcing Jews to eat them. They may not like them, but they cannot make everyone quit eating them. They do not have to go to any slaughterhouses, hotdog eating contests, or the hotdog section at the deli. Sure, they might have to put up with seeing people eat hotdogs in public, but no one is forcing their gaze towards them.
Also, saying "no offense" doesn't excuse you from homophobic implications
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;37913871]Im quite sure that getting raised only by daddies will have a very hard mental impact on a child.
Out in nature, animals are raised by their mothers, at least.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever thought that humans are at the point where we don't need a mother to grow up? We also don't need a father to grow up.
You can buy milk formula for babies, and some children are raised without mothers because of some tragic event, and guess what? They turn out fine. A gay couple marrying is no different than a straight couple marrying.
It's not going to hurt anyone but the people brainwashed to believe that homosexuals are harmful to society, and quite frankly, I don't care if they get a bit angry or sad.
And what was that about a very hard mental impact? Do you think they're going to get depressed over having gay parents? I don't think so. Or are you afraid that they might catch "THE GAY"?
Sometimes people bring up arguments that the child will be affected because they'll get bullied, but most children get teased. It's what children do, they find out what pushes your buttons.
[editline]5th October 2012[/editline]
sorry if this post isn't worded right, but I'm kinda tired, I'll proofread it next time I look at the thread.
[editline]5th October 2012[/editline]
Oh and another comment, about the "lesbian friend" bit.
That's what everybody uses to claim they aren't a bigot.
"Oh and I'm not racist, I have SEVERAL black friends!"
"I'm not a homophobe, I have a lesbian friend!"
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/251623_432414286806124_571486377_n.jpg[/IMG]
Looks like gays marrying affects every facet of my life and I certainly have to take up arms against it...
Edit:
Gays marrying doesn't suddenly turn them into depraved, monstrous cock-gobblers with sadistic tendencies. Why can't they seperate their lives from those of others and not push their shit on others. It's actually THAT SIMPLE.
Good fucking god the retards have come out of the woodwork for this thread.
While reading through the posts it suddenly occured to me that reading the misinformed vitriol against me and those like me no longer phases or upsets me. The knowledge saddens me; that I've become desensitized from constantly being labeled, directly and indirectly, as undeserving of human rights.
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;37913871]Im quite sure that getting raised only by daddies will have a very hard mental impact on a child.
Out in nature, animals are raised by their mothers, at least.[/QUOTE]
kill yourself.
[QUOTE=ramirez!;37915782][QUOTE=Xenocidebot;37915491]Christianity didn't and does not define marriage, the state does[/QUOTE]
Yes it did. Genesis 2:24 I think, maybe possibly I don't really remember well.
[/QUOTE]
you have got to be kidding me
apple now means coca-cola
there, i have defined apple
apple forever is a carbonated beverage
[editline]5th October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Primigenes;37913542]
[QUOTE=Bran;37913407]the word sex can also mean gender, not just procreation[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about procreation? Are you ignorant? Are you implying something?
[/QUOTE]
Strawman trolling horseshit, you obviously gave strong implication that "homosexuality" is all about the sex because "sex" is in it.
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;37913871]Im quite sure that getting raised only by daddies will have a very hard mental impact on a child.
Out in nature, animals are raised by their mothers, at least.[/QUOTE]
Making up facts about animals that we know nothing about are we?
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37914128]First of all, the Bible is the defining text of Christianity. Second, they are supposed to.[/QUOTE]
I was talking about Christianity with my friend once and wondering who the hell Cain's wife is supposed to be since there are only 3 people on earth, Cain, Adam and Eve so his wife must've been his bloody mom. Anyway, found out he was a Christian. He never goes to Church and has never read the bible. I've read more of the bible than he has! He has no effing CLUE what it means to be a Christian yet he says he is (because he believes in God). That's bonkers!
He could just as easily be a Muslim or a Jew (or any other monotheistic religion) with that argument.
[QUOTE=OpethRockr55;37914284]Except studies have shown children raised in such a manner grow up similarly, if not - better, than those raised in a hetero family. That point's moot.[/QUOTE]
Better upbringing? Maybe, depends on parents.
Similarly? No fucking way. (See: [url]http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_prohomo.html[/url] )
[QUOTE=usa;37920309]Better upbringing? Maybe, depends on parents.
Similarly? No fucking way. (See: [url]http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_prohomo.html[/url] )[/QUOTE]
Uncited words of one doctor, with a title like "prohomo". Yeah, totally legit.
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;37913484]
Im an atheist but still against same-sex marriage, since its basically one of the things Christianity forbids. Its like making hotdogs mandatory at a Chanukkah part.[/QUOTE]
It's more like making hot dogs [I]available[/I] at a [I]holiday[/I] party. Your logic is bizarre.
[QUOTE=Bletotum;37920555]Uncited words of one doctor, with a title like "prohomo". Yeah, totally legit.[/QUOTE]
So i see you read the sources in her article. Not really.
Also through common sense they aren't going to be brought up in a similar way, get over it, its never going to be "similar" when it comes to those ever discerning questions of puberty if the parents are a gay couple (not too say those questions aren't discerning enough already). Not to mention the shit they might get for it, but not understanding until they get older.
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;37913484]
Im an atheist but still against same-sex marriage, since its basically one of the things Christianity forbids. Its like making hotdogs mandatory at a Chanukkah part.
[/QUOTE]
i'm a homosexual myself, and to be honest? this bit right here offends me.
i don't understand why someone would actually do this. it's their personal life, i would hate for this to happen to me
[QUOTE=usa;37920737]So i see you read the sources in her article. Not really.
Also through common sense they aren't going to be brought up in a similar way, get over it, its never going to be "similar" when it comes to those ever discerning questions of puberty if the parents are a gay couple (not too say those questions aren't discerning enough already). Not to mention the shit they might get for it, but not understanding until they get older.[/QUOTE]
Why would you post this clearly biased article instead of the sources then? You must've known people would call you out on it.
[QUOTE]Studies thus far find between 8% and 21% of homosexually parented children ultimately identify as non-heterosexual. For comparison purposes, approximately 2% of the general population are non-heterosexual. Therefore, if these percentages continue to hold true, children of homosexuals have a 4 to 10 times [b]greater likelihood of developing[/b] a non-heterosexual preference than other children.[/QUOTE]
Whoever wrote this article is clearly a bloody fool who draws non sequitur conclusions to back up her own beliefs.
[QUOTE=Lalelalala;37920831]Why would you post this clearly biased article instead of the sources then? You must've known people would call you out on it.
Whoever wrote this article is clearly a bloody fool who draws non sequitur conclusions to back up her own beliefs.[/QUOTE]
I posted related article that has valid sources (but obviously bogus conclusions, now I realize) attached as a supporting resource, the article does not represent my point. Its not my job to pennypick over every fucking source, you can go ahead look back and see if i'm right and call me out on it (if you feel like riding a high horse and trampling over my point, a point which by common sense is perfectly valid). If you think I should be, you must be kidding yourself, i'm not a journalist, i'm a user on a internet forum for fucks sake, i'm not going to check every single detail before I post an opinionated point.
To re-iterate, my point was they will not have a "similar" upbringing to those of hetero parents. Think about it rather than attacking because of an idle reference, you should be attacking my opinion, if anything.
[sp]On a side note SH is a pothole for things like this anyway, and I really cant be fucked to keep up this pointless defense of my opinion because of people like you who feel the need to bring up semantics. You won't change my opinion by doing that.[/sp]
[QUOTE=usa;37921015]I posted related article that has valid sources (but obviously bogus conclusions, now I realize) attached as a supporting resource, the article does not represent my point. Its not my job to pennypick over every fucking source, you can go ahead look back and see if i'm right and call me out on it (if you feel like riding a high horse and trampling over my point, which by common sense is perfectly valid). If you think I should be, you must be kidding yourself, i'm not a journalist, i'm a user on a internet forum for fucks sake, i'm not going to check every single detail before I post an opinionated point.
To re-iterate, my point was they will not have a "similar" upbringing to those of hetero parents. Think about it rather than attacking because of an idle reference, you should be attacking my opinion, if anything.
[sp]On a side note SH is a pothole for things like this anyway, and I really cant be fucked to keep up this pointless defense of my opinion because of people like you who feel the need to bring up semantics. You won't change my opinion by doing that.[/sp][/QUOTE]
I don't think I get your point. Semantics? Since all you said when posting the link was:
[QUOTE=usa;37920309]Better upbringing? Maybe, depends on parents.
Similarly? No fucking way. (See: [url]http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_prohomo.html[/url] )[/QUOTE]
I don't see how I'm supposed to guess the article didn't represent your point based on what you've written.
If your point is just that they won't have a similar upbringing, won't they though? I don't see how it'd be any different from a single mom/dad with a good friend of the same gender who helps raise the kid.
[url]http://www.publicadvocateusa.org/[/url]
Just look at their website, it screams old useless people who need to die so the world can progress.
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;37913871]Im quite sure that getting raised only by daddies will have a very hard mental impact on a child.
Out in nature, animals are raised by their mothers, at least.[/QUOTE]
The two male penguins raising a young penguin from an egg disagree.
[QUOTE=Lalelalala;37921088]I don't think I get your point. Semantics? Since all you said when posting the link was:
I don't see how I'm supposed to guess the article didn't represent your point based on what you've written.
If your point is just that they won't have a similar upbringing, won't they though? I don't see how it'd be any different from a single mom/dad with a good friend of the same gender who helps raise the kid.[/QUOTE]
I was saying its not similar, that's pretty straightforward with my use of language there.
"Be any different", bullshit, what we are dealing with is a couple, not two relatives who are hetero. Think of the different ways the two different pairs would treat the kid based upon the circumstances.
Example questions when coming of age:
-Who are the people that hate us?
-Why do they hate us?
-What is this called and how does it work?
-Is it the norm?
-So all of this could have been avoided if I could have only been raised by different parents? (Remorse (admittedly people get over it))
Could end up being slightly traumatizing couldn't it?
Of course, this is all only a possibility, but lala land and none of this happening at all isn't a possibility at all unfortunately.
[QUOTE=usa;37921158]I was saying its not similar, that's pretty straightforward with my use of language there.[/QUOTE]It may be straightforward use of language but one word isn't enough to get much of a point through, illustrated by my misunderstanding of your point.
[QUOTE=usa;37921158]
"Be any different", bullshit, what we are dealing with is a couple, not two relatives who are hetero. Think of the different ways the two different pairs would treat the kid based upon the circumstances.
Example questions when coming of age:
-Who are the people that hate us?
-Why do they hate us?
-What is this called and how does it work?
-Is it the norm?
-So all of this could have been avoided if I could have only been raised by different parents? (Remorse (admittedly people get over it))
Could end up being slightly traumatizing couldn't it?
Of course, this is all only a possibility, but lala land and none of this happening at all isn't a possibility at all unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
And all those questions could be asked just the same if they weren't gay. If they were part of some ethnic minority or pretty much any group.
I don't think what others say about you has anything to do with how you were raised. It does have something to do with how you turn out as an adult, yes, but not with how you were raised.
[QUOTE=usa;37921158]I was saying its not similar, that's pretty straightforward with my use of language there.
"Be any different", bullshit, what we are dealing with is a couple, not two relatives who are hetero. Think of the different ways the two different pairs would treat the kid based upon the circumstances.
Example questions when coming of age:
-Who are the people that hate us?
-Why do they hate us?
-What is this called and how does it work?
-Is it the norm?
-So all of this could have been avoided if I could have only been raised by different parents? (Remorse (admittedly people get over it))
Could end up being slightly traumatizing couldn't it?
Of course, this is all only a possibility, but lala land and none of this happening at all isn't a possibility at all unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
Should black couples be discouraged or disallowed from marriage or adoption in case their kids have to find out what racism is?
In Canada gay marriage has been legal since the 80's, I think it's fucking ridiculous that it's still illegal in the U.S. You guys need to get your shit together.
"hey gays if you love other dudes so much why don't you marry one? OH WAIT NO DONT DO THAT
[QUOTE=Lalelalala;37921195]It may be straightforward use of language but one word isn't enough to get much of a point through, illustrated by my misunderstanding of your point.
And all those questions could be asked just the same if they weren't gay. If they were part of some ethnic minority or pretty much any group.
I don't think what others say about you has anything to do with how you were raised. It does have something to do with how you turn out as an adult, yes, but not with how you were raised.[/QUOTE]
It obvious you have misunderstood it, but you seem to have got it for the last couple posts. Yet you continue to discuss it yet it is pointless and you already understand, this is semantics.
We are also discussing them being raised, which is my point you are trying to ague against. Don't try to say the two aren't related and that you aren't impressed upon by other peoples opinions when you were young, because that is wrong and children psychology books for high schoolers will prove this.
Lets move on.
I'm not simply talking about "what others say about you" i'm talking about the experiences kids have from their family dynamics not being the norm. Bullying at school, tension in the family because of hate. I have seen at least a couple or news articles relating to these problems in the last few years, and i'm sure you have too. This is why saying that their upbringing will be similar to that of a hetero couple is incorrect, similar in small things sure (going to school, getting qualifications), but the whole family dynamic and relationship example to the child will be different, the parents can try to make it as normal as possible, and thats great! But you cant change the fact that its a gay couple, and the fact people are haters. There will be drama in today's world over this, and as I said before, we see it now and then. Being young is an impressionable time, and they will remember and question everything.
I'm trying to help you understand its not similar to be raised by a gay couple, its different. The effect on the child may not show until he comes of age and sorts himself out (which i doubt, it will show early), but it will show, everything influences, especially your parents.
[editline]6th October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rents;37921212]Should black couples be discouraged or disallowed from marriage or adoption in case their kids have to find out what racism is?[/QUOTE]
Current controversy vs History. Racism is not prevalent and is frowned upon in 90% of the world.
People have yet to get over gay couples, I hope its a matter of time.
It's so ridiculous that in this modern age some people are being given their most basic and fundamental rights.
[video=youtube;yMLZO-sObzQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLZO-sObzQ[/video]
Now shut the fuck up about kids raised by gay couples being affected negatively.
[QUOTE=1239the;37921450][video=youtube;yMLZO-sObzQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLZO-sObzQ[/video]
Now shut the fuck up about kids raised by gay couples being affected negatively.[/QUOTE]
Its a different experience for everyone. This is one of few experiences. And im not against this! Im for this! Its just not the same for everyone
I really didn't want to have to bring this up from personal experience because it looks cheap, but this is why I continue to argue with you.
A kid lived down the street from me when I was in primary school, his parents, a lesbian couple. He was bullied and targeted at my school and was a good friend of mine until I moved away about a year later. Our principal wouldn't listen to what was happening, only when we got a new principal the term before I left it had seemed things started to pick up.
At one point I remember visiting his house with my mother and she was chatting to them, some point in the conversation I remember the couple bursting into tears about how "hard it was to keep pushing against the other people". I never quite understood what was going on, but I do now.
Only two years ago I met him again when we decided to sell the house up the street from him where we used to live. He seems to be doing better than he was and liking his school. I didn't talk to him much though.
Its not similar, maybe it is where you come from, but from what I have heard and seen, some nations and areas are more accepting than others and some worse.
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