911 Tapes reveal Treyvon Martin was screaming and crying for help 45 seconds before he was shot - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Scotchair;35215352]I dont understand how he got away with this... really, can anybody explain what his defence was?[/QUOTE] the kid is black and everyone is being racist as fuck

[QUOTE=Skela;35215583]Wow, I can't believe we live among people like these. May this guy rot in prison.[/QUOTE] If you don't want this to happen. It would be a good idea to fix those retarded laws that has holes that allow it. Just because a southern, toothless hick proposed and passed it with a rifle in hand, it's not bulletproof by nature. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=sp00ks;35217457]the kid is black and everyone is being racist as fuck[/QUOTE] Or. You know, the laws relevant to this case are full of holes.

So, if I read right, the young black man was killed in their neighborhood by the neighborhood watch, with the kid's step-mother hearing the gunshot from their house? And while the kid was struggling to yell for help, not trespassing or anything, he got shot? If so, I hope Zimmerman is up for some time in prison.

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215329] Meanwhile I am trying to gather the facts of the story and determine that laws the victim violated before he was shot due to the fact one of the callers said the teen was on her back patio, which would surely imply someone was trespassing.[/QUOTE] It's obvious he wasn't. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Scotchair;35215352]I dont understand how he got away with this... really, can anybody explain what his defence was?[/QUOTE] He said it was self-defence and the cops believed him. Of course ALL the evidence and logic points to the contrary. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Broseph_;35215422]Florida law provides that one has the legal right to defend property of a third party if he has a legal duty to do so (in this case he was a neighborhood watch captain), that section the law how ever justifies force, but NOT deadly force unless it is to stop a violent felony or felony breaking and entering. How ever what complicates this is that he was, as far as I can tell, only Trespassing when he was apparently stopped by Zimmerman, which would have justified non-deadly force under the above statute of Florida law, but as one of the callers said, there was a scuffle, which then would have justified the use of legal force against him since that made it probable that the Teen was committing a 'unlawful and forcible act' against man (such as resisting zimmerman's lawful use of force), which would have legally justified him in shooting to kill the teen. In Texas this would have been more straight forward since deadly force is always justified in defense of a third party instead of this complicated shit.[/QUOTE] you're arguing something that doesn't even exist. He wasn't defending property and Martin wasn't trespassing.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;35215127]This shit makes my blood boil. The "watch captain" was specifically told [B]not[/B] to follow the black teen, he ignored the dispatcher anyway, confronted the kid and then killed him. The watch captain was charged with violence several years prior yet he still got away with this murder scot-free.[/QUOTE] He's not away scott-free. The investigation is ongoing, courtesy of the DOJ and FBI.

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215463]It does, a 911 caller says they are scuffling on her patio then gunshots.[/QUOTE] Doesn't mean he was on it. and it's obvious he wasn't. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] You are literally arguing a point that doesn't exist. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Broseph_;35215575]I don't get how that nullifies my argument, by the time the kid got shot he was trespassing, Florida law gives the any person the right to use non-deadly force to prevent or end a person trespassing on the land of third party if he has the legal duty to protect; In this case the home owner states to police they were physically fighting on her land at which constitutes a 'unlawful and forcible act' by the kid, which Florida Law requires before deadly force can be used. Legally speaking where he stopped the kid is irrelavent, it's where the deadly force was used, which from all that can established at this point, was where the kid had no legal right to be.[/QUOTE] What the fuck are you even talking about? WHERE was he trespassing? Why does that even matter?

By the way, the Watch Captain was never supposed to have a gun on him at any time.

so im guessing trespassing = use of deadly force?

Honestly, if you weren't at the scene, or couldn't interview the witnesses yourself, you have little to argue against each other. So why do you all continue to argue? After the few articles I read, it is quite hard to determine what went down exactly.

why dont they arrest this fucker already?

[QUOTE=xxncxx;35219868]why dont they arrest this fucker already?[/QUOTE] Because there were only a few 911 calls and not much else.

[QUOTE=Sgt. Khorn;35219846]Honestly, if you weren't at the scene, or couldn't interview the witnesses yourself, you have little to argue against each other. So why do you all continue to argue? After the few articles I read, it is quite hard to determine what went down exactly.[/QUOTE] Okay then, let's just discuss only the news stories we were at the scene of.

So when you pull out a gun on some random kid and he starts shouting for help it's better to kill him because he can be shouting for his kiddie buddies to help him. And especially if he's going to attempt running away and he will step on the grass in front of someone's house. That's very useful, no wait it's retarded.

[QUOTE=Sgt. Khorn;35219846]Honestly, if you weren't at the scene, or couldn't interview the witnesses yourself, you have little to argue against each other. So why do you all continue to argue? After the few articles I read, it is quite hard to determine what went down exactly.[/QUOTE] Because if you listen and assess, you'd find it really unlikely that Treyvon Martin would threaten Zimmerman's life.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;35219904]Okay then, let's just discuss only the news stories we were at the scene of.[/QUOTE] Local student in Rhode Island trips over a hurdle today. More on that at 11.

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215706]As for if I would feel threatened, it depends on the context, and I'm afraid to say in this case because we don't know all the facts.[/QUOTE] if you accost someone who is walking on a public sidewalk while wielding a gun, then whether or not you feel threatened should not be justification for further action since you are the one responsible for creating the threatening situation. even if Martin did something "threatening" it would still be Zimmerman's fault if Martin got shot since, in this situation, Zimmerman is the aggressor. this shows the fundamental problem with your reasoning and the reasoning of a lot of people in cases like these. for one reason or another (wink wink) people still treat the neighborhood watch captain as the person who was on the defense and the black teenager as the potentially threatening person even though the neighborhood watch captain was the fucking instigator because he was the one who walked up to a person on a public sidewalk waving a gun around. Treyvon had every right in the world to act "threatening" because he was the one being accosted by a man with a gun. Any action Martin could have taken up to and including trying to disarm Zimmerman would have been self-defense; but that's not going to be the attitude of the courts or a lot of armchair legal experts on the internet because Zimmerman is a neighborhood watch member and Martin is a black teenager.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35219929]Because if you listen and assess, you'd find it really unlikely that Treyvon Martin would threaten Zimmerman's life.[/QUOTE] It takes quite a lot to kill someone with your bare hands, unless you know how, and it's extremely unlikely that Treyvon knew that. Zimmerman is a person that disobeyed the dispatcher and got himself in a situation that could've ended a little better with both of them just backing off and leaving each other alone. EDIT: Based on Zimmerman's logic here, i could go out with a gun and start a fight with someone i hate, wait for them to fight back, and shoot em in the fucking head, and claim self-defense, right?

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35219929]Because if you listen and assess, you'd find it really unlikely that Treyvon Martin would threaten Zimmerman's life.[/QUOTE] Forming an arguement on a sensational news article is a terrible way to go about things. Yes, it seems like Treyvon is fully innocent. But this article hardly is the whole story. I read another article on this saying he was on a phone talking to a girl moments before being confronted by Zimmerman.

[QUOTE=The freeman;35219816]By the way, the Watch Captain was never supposed to have a gun on him at any time.[/QUOTE] it was on the news, they said he told police he had a permit for the gun. but, i still don't agree with this. throw him in jail, it was just plain out murder for no reason.

[QUOTE=Sgt. Khorn;35220006]Forming an arguement on a sensational news article is a terrible way to go about things. Yes, it seems like Treyvon is fully innocent. But this article hardly is the whole story. I read another article on this saying he was on a phone talking to a girl moments before being confronted by Zimmerman.[/QUOTE] which is evidence of what? you keep saying that "we don't know all the facts" but you sure seem to be insistent on pushing a different interpretation of the events.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;35219829]so im guessing trespassing = use of deadly force?[/QUOTE] Depends on the state's law. Some states do allow deadly force against trespassers.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;35220075]Depends on the state's law. Some states do allow deadly force against trespassers.[/QUOTE] [quote]Florida's self-defense law, known as Stand Your Ground, grants immunity to people who act to protect themselves if they have a reasonable fear they will be killed or seriously injured. "Stand Your Ground is a law that has really created a Wild West type environment in Florida," said Brian Tannebaum, a criminal defense lawyer in Florida. "It allows people to kill people outside of their homes, if they are in reasonable fear for their lives. It's a very low standard."[/quote]

Not sure why it would be suspicious for someone to be walking down a neighborhood at sunset with a bottle of tea and a bag of candy. Wannabe cop and his itchy trigger finger taking the law into his own hands. For all we know it could've been Martin defending himself as well since Zimmerman did confront him.

[QUOTE=zombini;35219978] EDIT: Based on Zimmerman's logic here, i could go out with a gun and start a fight with someone i hate, wait for them to fight back, and shoot em in the fucking head, and claim self-defense, right?[/QUOTE] As long as they're black apparently.

[QUOTE=Sgt. Khorn;35219846]After the few articles I read, it is quite hard to determine what went down exactly.[/QUOTE] Zimmerman reported Martin to the police for being "a black man with his hand in his pocket". Martin was half Zimmerman's size. In this call you can clearly hear Martin screaming for help BEFORE shots are fired, Zimmerman was admittedly chasing the boy before this confrontation, and a search of the body revealed all Martin had was a phone, a (nonalcoholic) drink, and a bag of candy. I'd say that's enough.

That lady handling the call is annoying as fuck. Someone is being shot at, but she still asks stupid questions just to kill time or something. Send a goddamn police car. Damn.

It's amazing how okay people are with the idea of vigilantism in our society and this is precisely why they shouldn't be.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;35215127]This shit makes my blood boil. The "watch captain" was specifically told [B]not[/B] to follow the black teen, he ignored the dispatcher anyway, confronted the kid and then killed him. The watch captain was charged with violence several years prior yet he still got away with this murder scot-free.[/QUOTE] It's ironic because he thinks he's a "watch captain" protecting the neighborhood, when he's actually the one starting all the trouble.

[QUOTE=Sgt. Khorn;35220006]Forming an arguement on a sensational news article is a terrible way to go about things. Yes, it seems like Treyvon is fully innocent. But this article hardly is the whole story. I read another article on this saying he was on a phone talking to a girl moments before being confronted by Zimmerman.[/QUOTE] The 911 tapes aren't sensational. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Chekko;35220503]That lady handling the call is annoying as fuck. Someone is being shot at, but she still asks stupid questions just to kill time or something. Send a goddamn police car. Damn.[/QUOTE] You have absolutely no idea how dispatchers work. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] The dispatcher did everything right. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=asteroidrules;35220385]Zimmerman reported Martin to the police for being "a black man with his hand in his pocket". Martin was half Zimmerman's size. In this call you can clearly hear Martin screaming for help BEFORE shots are fired, Zimmerman was admittedly chasing the boy before this confrontation, and a search of the body revealed all Martin had was a phone, a (nonalcoholic) drink, and a bag of candy. I'd say that's enough.[/QUOTE] One thing I want to point out is to empasis the time he was calling for help. [B]45 FUCKING SECONDS.[/B] And that's at the start of the call, it could have been going on for god knows how long before. No one would be screaming and crying for help almost a full minute before doing something that would morally and legally call for being killed.

[QUOTE=HkSniper;35217401] Dispatchers are not there on scene. Sometimes their advice is useful and other times it is not. They are sitting in a comfortable building while you are the one 'on the field' and 'in the moment'. All they have is what they can hear and what you are telling them. I have heard countless 911 calls where someone is breaking into someone's home and the caller states they are going to get a gun - and the dispatcher tells them no. That, in my opinion, is stupid advice and I hear it a lot. Many of these people who did grab their firearm and shot the intruder as the intruder charged into the room they were holed up in ended up saving their lives...and if they had not grabbed that firearm and listened to the dispatcher they could have potentially ended up dead.[/QUOTE] I would agree with you, but Zimmerman was sitting in his car watching when they told him to stay put, he could have easily tailed the kid some more yet he decided to get out and approach him. He wasnt particularly out of his comfort zone like you would be when someone was breaking into his house, he was obviously already wound up since he knew nothing about the kid yet said he was an asshole. The job of the neighborhood watch is to keep an eye out for crime and try to stop it where possible, here we have a 'whacker' (Or wannabe cop, which can be seen by the fact that he called the police over 50 times in the previous months, he carries a gun around with him and is the neighborhood watch captain) who got wound up and decided he was going to try and do the job of a trained officer by approaching the kid. From everything that has been brought up/said so far, it seems like they got in a fight and he got more than he bargained for which made him even more angry, then when they were separated he pulled his gun out and shot the kid.