Daimler announces $11 billion investment in electric vehicles
48 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Morgen;51438644]
I think that's more due to Tesla bypassing the dealerships and going direct rather than it being an EV.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter, they've showed how strong they are in lobbying.
[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;51439925]As an American I am a bit discerned by this. How can I LS power an EV?[/QUOTE]
What?
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;51439066]Those stats don't show the E-class, which is realistically what the Model S is competing against. S-class starts at ~100k and goes up well past the 250k range for the decked out AMG models. There's far more E-class floating around. It's 80% of the luxury features of an S-class, with practically all of the safety stuff, and you can deck one out for ~80,000.
I have no idea what source you are using for that data, but if it doesn't classify an E-class a luxury sedan, it's a shit one.[/QUOTE]
have you considered that's because the E class is not a large luxury sedan?
[editline]28th November 2016[/editline]
would you compare the audi a6 and a8? nah because the a6 is not a large luxury sedan
[QUOTE=codenamecueball;51440302]have you considered that's because the E class is not a large luxury sedan?
[editline]28th November 2016[/editline]
would you compare the audi a6 and a8? nah because the a6 is not a large luxury sedan[/QUOTE]
It's as much a large luxury sedan as the Porche Panamera, which is included. And let's not forget the exclusion of cars such as the Cadillacs and Lincolns.
Whoever made that graph used their own definition of "large" and "luxury" to tailor it for the results they wanted.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51440410]It's as much a large luxury sedan as the Porche Panamera, which is included. And let's not forget the exclusion of cars such as the Cadillacs and Lincolns.
Whoever made that graph used their own definition of "large" and "luxury" to tailor it for the results they wanted.[/QUOTE]
It's obviously based on price. The Panamera has an RRP of £80k. Why would you compare cars less than half the price? The Model S has an average selling price of about $100k.
[QUOTE=Morgen;51438599]In terms of sales.
[T]https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iPX2qgG2x5_U/v0/-1x-1.png[/t][/QUOTE]
I did wonder why the E-Class wasn't on that list when I first saw it.
The Model S isn't as big or luxurious as a Mercedes S-Class, almost identical in size to the E-class and very similar in cost ($56k-100k+ E-class vs $65k-110k Model S). And the E-Class sold 13,965 units in the US over Q3 2016 (up 7% from 2015)
Tesla is doing well, but not [I]that[/I] well.
but guys imagine how revitalized/cool the ICE/classic car scene will be once it's illegal and has to go underground
[QUOTE=Morgen;51440860]It's obviously based on price. The Panamera has an RRP of £80k. Why would you compare cars less than half the price? The Model S has an average selling price of about $100k.[/QUOTE]
Luxury isn't based on price. Luxury is based on amenities and quality. If your graph says "US Large Luxury Sedans", then you include all US Large Luxury Sedans, not just the ones that are around the same price. Let me put it to you this way:
Tesla Model S starts at $66,000. The Maserati Quattroporte starts at $103,000. That's a $37,000 difference. The Cadillac CTS starts at $45,000. That's a $21,000 difference. So why not have the Cadillac CTS up there? I mean by your metric, it's closer in price than the Quattroporte, so it should be, right?
This graph is purposefully skewed to give you the results you want to see, not the actual results.
If just a simple new sale ban is enacted and existing cars have to become low/none emission corporations will probably move towards producing hemp fuel or some other biofuel source with low emissions for ICE consumption. It will give farmers and the agriculture industry a boost since the plant is good for the soil, kill off the tobacco industry too since less farmers are producing that and provide more research material into other fields like medicine so pharmaceutical companies will probably buy into that to.
Electric motors will just be the next stage of personal transportation, cars will continue to look the same and life will go on. Vintage/classic/old cars will probably be ignored.
Really if congress can pull its head out of its ass both sides can win from EVs becoming commonplace and using different fuel sources for ICE until they're completely gone.
[QUOTE=greendevil;51441105]but guys imagine how revitalized/cool the ICE/classic car scene will be once it's illegal and has to go underground[/QUOTE]
Remember the [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1531533"]Netherlands ICE ban[/URL]? It didn't pass. Much more likely outcome is that advances in technology with volatility of oil prices shift mainstream to electric over next decades. I don't see this as a loss to petrolheads, it hits mostly to "appliance" cars like Corolla that enthusiasts bitch to no end anyway. What will remain is the actual tinkerer and enthusiast market for those who actually appreciate unique qualities of ICE. Performance is not going to be one of them, so the market will appreciate them by feel alone. So car guys, ask yourselves a serious question: what is that you really like in your favorite engine?
[QUOTE=Morgen;51439248]The E class is more of a Model 3 competitor than an S competitor IMO. The RRP of the E class is £33k, about on par with the 3.[/QUOTE]
33K for an eclass gets you the most basic bottom of the line 2 litre diesel. Be realistic here, the E class is a mid size luxury car, you can spend a lot on options and pay up to 22k more on the base model for a decent engine
[QUOTE=Vlevs;51441580]Remember the [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1531533"]Netherlands ICE ban[/URL]? It didn't pass. Much more likely outcome is that advances in technology with volatility of oil prices shift mainstream to electric over next decades. I don't see this as a loss to petrolheads, it hits mostly to "appliance" cars like Corolla that enthusiasts bitch to no end anyway. What will remain is the actual tinkerer and enthusiast market for those who actually appreciate unique qualities of ICE. Performance is not going to be one of them, so the market will appreciate them by feel alone. So car guys, ask yourselves a serious question: what is that you really like in your favorite engine?[/QUOTE]
It still passed in the lower house, so bills like that are still somewhat appealing. In a few years I'm pretty sure it'll be back in the netherlands parliament and show up in other EU states.
America will probably be extra slow, pushing the ban to like 2030-2040, but we have good reasons to be behind the pack here.
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;51444435]33K for an eclass gets you the most basic bottom of the line 2 litre diesel. Be realistic here, the E class is a mid size luxury car, you can spend a lot on options and pay up to 22k more on the base model for a decent engine[/QUOTE]
Isn't every car like that though? The 3 starts at a similar price but the average sale price will be much higher. The Model S starts at around $66k but can be optioned up to over $120k.
Maybe the E class should be listed. Still the Model S is doing good if it's almost matching one of Mercedes best selling cars that has a lower starting point.
The 3 starts at 35k which is more than most full size cars and even some trucks.
For that much I should just go for the Ford Focus Electric at 29k and save $6,000, and if I'm lucky get the federal EV tax credit.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51448229]The 3 starts at 35k which is more than most full size cars and even some trucks.
For that much I should just go for the Ford Focus Electric at 29k and save $6,000, and if I'm lucky get the federal EV tax credit.[/QUOTE]
Uhh.. the Ford focus electric has less than half the range, no Supercharger access, and poor acceleration. Doesn't even have DC charging iirc. Why would you get one over the Model 3?
[QUOTE=Morgen;51449195]Uhh.. the Ford focus electric has less than half the range, no Supercharger access, and poor acceleration. Doesn't even have DC charging iirc. Why would you get one over the Model 3?[/QUOTE]
Because for someone like me it's cheaper which is very important because $6,000 is two college semesters worth of money to me. Tesla has no superchargers to begin with where I am and I don't need more than a 100 mile range for my weekly needs. Also the 2017 Focus Electric is getting DC fast charging btw.
The Model 3 is a luxury EV, not enough incentive to get one.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51450447]Because for someone like me it's cheaper which is very important because $6,000 is two college semesters worth of money to me. Tesla has no superchargers to begin with where I am and I don't need more than a 100 mile range for my weekly needs.
The Model 3 is a luxury EV, not enough incentive to get one.[/QUOTE]
If that's enough for you then that's great. Though I have to wonder if you're in college why are you buying a $30k car? There's probably better things you could do with that money, and the pre owned market would probably suit you better. The Focus electric will probably deprecate fast when the 3 is released since very few people will want it, so you could probably pick one up pretty cheap. If I were you though i'd pickup a Leaf over the Focus, much better car all around IMO.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51437406]I legitimately have a fear that the push for EVs will lead to a ban on petrol vehicles which will be devastating to the classic car hobby/industry.[/QUOTE]
At [I]most[/I] I imagine we would simply see production limits on [I]new[/I] petrol engine vehicles, not an outright ban on owning existing ones. I reckon your classic car hobby is safe for the foreseeable future.
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