COD Now Officially Stands for Copy of Duty: Ghosts Rips Cutscene from MW2 Nearly 1:1 - aka worse gam - Polidicks

[QUOTE=gudman;42780043]Enemy NPCs behave exactly the same. They look exactly the same. [/QUOTE] Tell me about it. The first fucking Call of Duty and its custard faced paratroopers had more variety than this. [img]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/y0lnglq7hvw7fm8/codsameface.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Mericet;42780336]Tell me about it. The first fucking Call of Duty and its custard faced paratroopers had more variety than this. [img]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/y0lnglq7hvw7fm8/codsameface.gif[/img][/QUOTE] So I wasn't the only one to notice how all their faces are [b]exactly the same[/b] down to facemaps. And that game takes 30 GBs of your hard drive and reqires 6GB RAM. What would've been if it included effort? 150GBs?

[QUOTE=gudman;42780366] What would've been if it included effort?[/QUOTE] A lot lot less.

someone should run windirstat on the COD:ghosts installation folder to see what the hell takes up so much space

[QUOTE=gudman;42779905]I don't really get it... Nearly all animations in this series have been reused since CoD4, some - since CoD2. We have reused sound assets, reload animations, particle effects, everything. But this one is somehow bigger? Come on. It's the same, just reused animations.[/QUOTE] There's a big difference between "background animations" that are so generic they're not to stick out, and those used in moments like cutscenes where all the player's attention is directed on it and it's rather central to what's happening on the screen. It's like the difference between reusing generic grunt chatter lines and an entire scene's dialogue text.

[QUOTE=meppers;42780410]someone should run windirstat on the COD:ghosts installation folder to see what the hell takes up so much space[/QUOTE] I won't be surprised if it extracts something like "big_file_1.bigfile". After this 6GB of RAM, of which only 3 are actually used, everything is expected. [editline]6th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;42780446]There's a big difference between "background animations" that are so generic they're not to stick out, and those used in moments like cutscenes where all the player's attention is directed on it and it's rather central to what's happening on the screen. It's like the difference between reusing generic grunt chatter lines and an entire scene's dialogue text.[/QUOTE] I agree that it's diffirent. But this "background", - not really, since throughout all the gameplay parts you're only paying attention to what's happening, and animations, including death animations, play big part in it, - is reused on a span of [b]three games[/b], exactly the same, plus two Black Ops games. Epitome of lazyness, cutscene animations being reused is not exactly new either - look at wall/door breaching from MW2 to Ghosts. I remember some controvercy around cutscene animations in MW3 from MW2, but don't exactly remember what it was.

[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;42780446]There's a big difference between "background animations" that are so generic they're not to stick out, and those used in moments like cutscenes where all the player's attention is directed on it and it's rather central to what's happening on the screen. It's like the difference between reusing generic grunt chatter lines and an entire scene's dialogue text.[/QUOTE] It's still a pretty generic animation. So much so that despite beating Modern Warfare 2 twice, I still wouldn't have drawn a connection without seeing both scenes side by side.

[QUOTE=meppers;42780410]someone should run windirstat on the COD:ghosts installation folder to see what the hell takes up so much space[/QUOTE] The dog models and the fish AI

[QUOTE=Raidyr;42780534]It's still a pretty generic animation. So much so that despite beating Modern Warfare 2 twice, I still wouldn't have drawn a connection without seeing both scenes side by side.[/QUOTE] Nah, I noticed it as soon as it happened. Just didn't surprise me much, reused animation - what else is new. That entire scene was pointless anyway, and you can almost tell that they shoved it in just to use that animation one more time.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;42780112]Doesnt mean that its a good thing to do. Also i dont know if children's shows can be compared to a game with the target audience of [B]prepubescent 12 year olds[/B][/QUOTE] ftfy

[QUOTE=gudman;42780594]Nah, I noticed it as soon as it happened. Just didn't surprise me much, reused animation - what else is new. That entire scene was pointless anyway, and you can almost tell that they shoved it in just to use that animation one more time.[/QUOTE] The more likely explanation is that because it's a pointless scene they just recycled an animation from a prior project because they assumed people wouldn't really care.

[QUOTE=Crazy;42779943]It's a whole scene they reused. Just different textures. That's just lazy as shit.[/QUOTE] I hate to nit-pick but the only thing they reused were animations, there are quite a few more things that go into a scene than just textures and animations. And in any case what did you expect? The animations in the COD games haven't really changed much since the first Modern Warfare. [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42779961]Reused animations are especially lazy though.[/QUOTE] It's extremely common though. Resident Evil 5 had the exact same character animations as Resident Evil 4 and I don't see entire threads dedicated to calling the developers lazy. Sometimes there just isn't a point to remaking new animations to portray the exact same thing. It's not like these guys ripped off a big scene or anything, it's just a scene where the character is unconscious and being pulled to some sort of vehicle. There is literally no point in completely redoing the entire scene just to appease a bunch of people that wouldn't have bought the game anyway. I don't like COD at all but Jesus you guys will complain about anything if it has COD in the title, even if it's been a common practice in video game sequels since 3D animation was a thing.

[QUOTE=aydin690;42780050]Disney has been doing this for years, big whoop: [video=youtube;D3OXZTHN1R8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3OXZTHN1R8[/video][/QUOTE] Mmm, yes, indeed - because redrawing entire scenes and characters frame-by-frame that last minutes on end (which, mind you, can take several weeks and months to do!) is [I]completely [/I]the same as reusing a skeletal animation that has been exported and saved and can be applied to any other model when needed to do so (which might take a whooping 5 minutes to apply!) Makes perfect sense.

Now watch them release the "real" ending as paid DLC.

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;42780821]Mmm, yes, indeed - because redrawing entire scenes and characters frame-by-frame that last minutes on end is completely the same as reusing a skeletal animation that has been exported and saved and can be applied to any other model when needed to do so.[/QUOTE] It's the exact same principle. Corporations don't want to waste time and money completely redoing the exact same thing they've done before in past video games. They'll re-use whatever they can to put in new scenes whenever the design calls for something that's similar to something in a previous game. This isn't about Infinity Ward being lazy, it's just how video game companies do business. Oh no I'm dumb. Please explain to me the difference between redrawing an entire scene and re-animating an entire scene when a similar scene has already been made and can easily be adapted to be used in future titles. It sounds like you've never actually spent any time doing this kind of shit and have no idea how common it is.

I wonder how many other games/movies do the same thing but aren't attacked for it because it isn't Call Of Duty

Infinity Ward should just rename themselves Limited Ward.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;42780859]It's the exact same principle. Corporations don't want to waste time and money completely redoing the exact same thing they've done before in past video games. They'll re-use whatever they can to put in new scenes whenever the design calls for something that's similar to something in a previous game. This isn't about Infinity Ward being lazy, it's just how video game companies do business.[/QUOTE] No, it isn't the same principle when X takes a hell of a lot more work and effort than Y - and [I]especially [/I]when [I]time-period and available technology[/I] comes into play. It's excusable in some cases, but not in others. Not to mention one thing is animation work that takes years to complete and the other is video games. The difference is too big to compare to begin with. This isn't about how video game companies do business, it's the principle of "come the hell on, don't re-use an entire scene if creating a new one requires little to no effort, especially considering you're using motion capture which all you need to do is clean up to make it look acceptable and hardly that given you have a professional studio for it, you cheap bastards" [editline]7th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=mugofdoom;42780859]Oh no I'm dumb. Please explain to me the difference between redrawing an entire scene and re-animating an entire scene when a similar scene has already been made and can easily be adapted to be used in future titles. It sounds like you've never actually spent any time doing this kind of shit and have no idea how common it is.[/QUOTE] [I]BAAHAHA[/I] No, I do spend time doing all of this shit and I have quite an idea how common it is. Animation is what I want to work with in the future, so my respect for animation and the work that goes behind it is beyond comprehension. Redrawing entire scenes is lazy, sure, I'm not denying that. But you can't compare something that takes THAT much work and effort to something like this. Skeletal animation reapplied to a rig =/= redrawing and reworking entire lengthy scenes. The time and effort difference is just way too big to compare the two and frankly makes you look a bit idiotic.

[QUOTE=residntevl;42780589]The dog models and the fish AI[/QUOTE] [img]http://31.media.tumblr.com/34ba27368b3e18eaef2680d8de7cd8ba/tumblr_mvv7f0Y9TH1rp3ua6o1_400.gif[/img] [i]NEXTGEN[/i] is there [i]any[/i] semblance of making a reference to the previous game though? it's a different scene and the only thing re-used is the animation rigging, which while oddly lazy for such a company isn't the same as reusing assets instance for instance. Can't wait for their official statement, whether it be an apology or an explanation of what they intended with it. There's a story buried beyond "LOL REHASH!!" and it should be interesting

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;42780910]No, it isn't the same principle when X takes a hell of a lot more work and effort than Y - and [I]especially [/I]when [I]time-period and available technology[/I] comes into play. It's excusable in some cases, but not in others. Not to mention one thing is animation work that takes years to complete and the other is video games. The difference is too big to compare to begin with. This isn't about how video game companies do business, it's the principle of "come the hell on, don't re-use an entire scene if creating a new one requires little to no effort, especially considering you're using motion capture which all you need to do is clean up to make it look acceptable and hardly that given you have a professional studio for it, you cheap bastards"[/QUOTE] So if you were a video game designer and you were tasked with making this entire scene, from the characters to the environment all painstakingly sculpted, modeled, textured and laid out and then you have the task of putting together a scene that's very similar to one previously used in another game, you would completely re-do the motion capture, completely re-do every little aspect of it, instead of just grabbing what had already been done and applying it to newer models? You have unrealistic expectations of the video game industry. As I previously stated this is extremely common.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;42781005]So if you were a video game designer and you were tasked with making this entire scene, from the characters to the environment all painstakingly sculpted, modeled, textured and laid out and then you have the task of putting together a scene that's very similar to one previously used in another game, you would completely re-do the motion capture, completely re-do every little aspect of it, instead of just grabbing what had already been done and applying it to newer models? You have unrealistic expectations of the video game industry. As I previously this is extremely common.[/QUOTE] everything was built up except the motion capture. it's not the biggest piece of the pie here and it isn't something a studio of their size should even have an issue getting set early in production. For smaller instances, it might be passable, but a major cutscene from the ending of your last game flat out isn't recyclable material

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;42780728]Sometimes there just isn't a point to remaking new animations to portray the exact same thing. It's not like these guys ripped off a big scene or anything, it's just a scene where the character is unconscious and being pulled to some sort of vehicle. There is literally no point in completely redoing the entire scene just to appease a bunch of people that wouldn't have bought the game anyway. I don't like COD at all but Jesus you guys will complain about anything if it has COD in the title, even if it's been a common practice in video game sequels since 3D animation was a thing.[/QUOTE] To be honest I don't really mind asset re-use, it's a more efficient use of time and resources to just take a sound or texture or minor animation from an old project rather than make an entirely new one that ends up being pretty much the same anyway. I'd feel a lot less offended, however, if it seemed like the time and budget that was saved re-using old assets was actually used to create something that improved the game rather than just "MORE ADVERTISING OVER-SATURATION!"

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;42780910]Redrawing entire scenes is lazy, sure, I'm not denying that. But you can't compare something that takes THAT much work and effort to something like this. Skeletal animation reapplied to a rig =/= redrawing and reworking entire lengthy scenes. The time and effort difference is just way too big to compare the two and frankly makes you look a bit idiotic.[/QUOTE] I said it was the same principle, not the exact same thing. It all comes down to big companies not wanting to spend the money on doing the exact same shit twice. Cutting corners is a big thing in the entertainment industry and apparently you know that.

i am the ambassador of hating call of duty and i think that is fucking lazy

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;42781005]So if you were a video game designer and you were tasked with making this entire scene, from the characters to the environment all painstakingly sculpted, modeled, textured and laid out and then you have the task of putting together a scene that's very similar to one previously used in another game, you would completely re-do the motion capture, completely re-do every little aspect of it, instead of just grabbing what had already been done and applying it to newer models? You have unrealistic expectations of the video game industry. As I previously this is extremely common.[/QUOTE] Yes, I would - especially when it's something THIS BIG. And a model is only created and textured once, you know. Once a 3D model's been made you don't need to remake it, it's a done puppet to do as you wish. The mocap data could take like, what, half an hour to get? Probably less given the length of the scene, but let's assume they have to do several takes and get into gear and everything. Cleaning it up shouldn't be a huge issue because they have a studio for it, eliminating most of the mocap issues. Apply animation data to models, export to use in the game engine, done. And as for making the scene different? It doesn't take much. They didn't have to get the second guy in, they could've made the camera move differently, they could've had the supporting character be on the other side and do other gestures, could've had the main character crawl along for a bit himself and the supporting character run up to him and help him at a quick pace because it looks like they're in a hurry: There's SO many things they could have done, even if they're just tiny differences they make out what could've been a very different scene. Half an hour more effort and this whole disaster would've been averted. It's not an unrealistic expectation. An unrealistic expectation is if they were to redo every single motion ever, even if it's just the movement of one finger during half a second of footage. But something of THIS size and weight? No. Completely unacceptable.

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;42781065]Yes, I would - especially when it's something THIS BIG. And a model is only created and textured once, you know. Once a 3D model's been made you don't need to remake it, it's a done puppet to do as you wish. The mocap data could take like, what, half an hour to get? Probably less given the length of the scene, but let's assume they have to do several takes and get into gear and everything. Cleaning it up shouldn't be a huge issue because they have a studio for it, eliminating most of the mocap issues. Apply animation data to models, export to use in the game engine, done. And as for making the scene different? It doesn't take much. They didn't have to get the second guy in, they could've made the camera move differently, they could've had the supporting character be on the other side and do other gestures, could've had the main character crawl along for a bit himself and the supporting character run up to him and help him at a quick pace because it looks like they're in a hurry: There's SO many things they could have done, even if they're just tiny differences they make out what could've been a very different scene. Half an hour more effort and this whole disaster would've been averted. It's not an unrealistic expectation. An unrealistic expectation is if they were to redo every single motion ever, even if it's just the movement of one finger during half a second of footage. But something of THIS size and weight? No. Completely unacceptable.[/QUOTE] It's a minor scene though, that's the thing. Who cares if it takes a half an hour to get rough mocap data when you already have the exact same scene ready to go? All you have to do is apply it. Also I didn't say anything about remaking models. Have no idea what you're talking about there. I meant after making that entire scene for the game do you really want to go through the trouble of redoing a minor animation like dragging the character to a car?

[QUOTE=Mericet;42780336]Tell me about it. The first fucking Call of Duty and its custard faced paratroopers had more variety than this. [img]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/y0lnglq7hvw7fm8/codsameface.gif[/img][/QUOTE] Reminds me of the YTMND "*blank* doesn't change facial expressions" fad

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;42781111]It's a minor scene though, that's the thing. Who cares if it takes a half an hour to get rough mocap data when you already have the exact same scene ready to go? All you have to do is apply it. Also I didn't say anything about remaking models. Have no idea what you're talking about there. I meant after making that entire scene for the game do you really want to go through the trouble of redoing a minor animation like dragging the character to a car?[/QUOTE] It [I]isn't[/I] a minor scene. A "[I]minor scene[/I]" would be if a character was standing in the distance doing a waving motion followed by a jump off a cliff or something. This is HUGE. It's not just a viewmodel reuse, it's not just a few seconds of one characters arm-movement, it's an entire fucking scene being reused. And who cares? Isn't this thread a testament to who cares? The people commenting in the video in the OP? The news journalists reporting it? I think that pretty much screams that EVERYONE cares. And it's something a game developer (especially a BIG one) should realize! And I mentioned the models because you made it a big deal that the models had to be made when in reality while that IS the biggest part of the work, it's got no impact on the animations - so it's a null argument.

[QUOTE=nick_9_8;42780678]ftfy[/QUOTE] Nope. Not until Christmas.

Not the first time they did, I noticed this once I was playing MW3 with a friend: [video=youtube;xG5psTMqGJM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG5psTMqGJM[/video]