• Russia warns Poland not to touch Soviet WW2 memorials
    82 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rolond Returns;52526915]Remember Katyn; Russia will pay for crimes.[/QUOTE] No, it won't. If it hasn't already, it never will, unfortunately, unless the next president is the complete opposite of a nationalist which is unlikely
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52526477]It's a tricky situation. On one hand, those statues are meant to commemorate and immortalize the men who gave their lives fighting Germany, defending their nation and liberating Poland. While the Red Army atrocities in Poland are well documented, you cannot honestly think that literally every single Soviet soldier only came to Poland to rape, plunder and wreck havoc. What the Soviet Union did post-war is also abhorrent, [I]but that should not erase or overshadow the efforts of the men who fought honorably and died honorably. [/I] They do not deserve to be forgotten, and I understand where Russia is coming from. Remove every monument that praises the Soviet Union or public figures like Lenin, Stalin, etc, (if they haven't been removed already), but Poland should definitely keep the monuments that are meant to represent the soldiers who died for something greater, and who scarified literally everything to stop Germany from being an aggressive expansionist cunt. I think this should be preserved. [editline]31st July 2017[/editline] Like seriously posts like these; Are doing more harm than good. You are literally lumping every single Soviet soldier into one big blob of authoritarianism, and while I understand what the leadership of the Soviet Union did, when they aggressively trampled Poland in the name of their own personal political agendas, and even the lowest Soviet soldiers committed terrible crimes in their own respective ways, the majority of Red Army soldiers were there to push Germany back into their own borders, and inflict upon it the same destruction that it wrecked upon the Soviet Union, the civilians, and the homes of the soldiers who have now taken the fight to them. This -majority-, should not be brushed aside and definitely should not be forgotten or pushed to the sidelines of history. An afterthought. A "PS" at the bottom of a long letter. I dont see how you can rationalize it otherwise.[/QUOTE] Absolute bollocks. The Red Army was used to invade, conquer and bring on a regime that spread its roots so deep that we're still, to this day, feeling the ill effects. The Slavic states would be on par with the rest of Europe if it wasn't for the poisonous USSR. Any monument that commemorates that is frankly insulting to the country in question; any attempt to excuse it, even more so. [editline]1st August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=AmberFox;52526194]While I'm not against destroying those Soviet statues and I understand why Poles hate USSR but you guys need to dig deeper.Polish government is really unpopular,especially among the youngsters,they tried to introduce the anti-abortion bill and failed because of protests,they wanted to introduce some repressive laws recently and failed plus the current conservative party has a conflict with EU so they need to unite Poland under something that will bring them votes\popularity and helps their image ourtside of Poland.I guess it's like Crimea for russians so it's not that hard to unite both conservative and liberal if you fight against common foe.I hope if Russian government will implement new sanctions against Poland it will not hit our tourists from Kaliningrad region which buy those tasty sausages and cheese in Poland.[/QUOTE] This is absolutely spot on - the reason why this is a discussed topic in the first place is that it's an easy way for the Polish government to score brownie points without much effort or money spent. That said, it doesn't make them wrong. These monuments should've been leveled with the ground decades ago.
[QUOTE=Govna;52526468]There's absolutely no reason to preserve them, especially given what they represent. [/QUOTE] That's exactly [I]why[/I] it should be preserved. Just in a context of contemplation or understanding, not glorification. So in an exhibit about Socialist Realist art on the ground, and not in a park on a plinth, for example. Not gonna lie though, seeing that swastika disappear in a flash was pretty fuckin' satisfying [QUOTE=Kecske;52526994]We simply put most of our communist statues in a separate park where you can still see them. Some are worthless like the usual Lenin busts, but there are a few with some actual artistic value like the cubist Marx-Engels statue.[/QUOTE] [T]http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/hungaryphotos/budapest/mementopark/320marxengels.jpg[/T] Y'know putting aside what it represents, this is a nice style. In a vaccum, i quite like it.
There's a few monuments in Helsinki commemorating "friendship" between the USSR and Finland. Always felt they're more commemorating the more than half-century long sword of Damocles hanging over Finland's head that the USSR was.
Oh no sanctions. Pretty much just shooting yourself in the foot with that, the Rubble still hasn't recovered at all from the drop it suffered in 2014 after the Ukraine invasion, disrupting trade with a neighbouring country that is also the sixth largest economy in the EU will just strain the Russian economy further. I'd call their bluff, are they really willing to fuck their economy more over statues?
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;52528196]Oh no sanctions. Pretty much just shooting yourself in the foot with that, the Rubble still hasn't recovered at all from the drop it suffered in 2014 after the Ukraine invasion, disrupting trade with a neighbouring country that is also the sixth largest economy in the EU will just strain the Russian economy further. I'd call their bluff, are they really willing to fuck their economy more over statues?[/QUOTE] Yea.... right. The drop was definitely because of the ukraine and not because of oil prices drop (>50% of russia's income) from 100+$ to 40$
[QUOTE=Megalan;52528227]Yea.... right. The drop was definitely because of the ukraine and not because of oil prices drop (>50% of russia's income) from 100+$ to 40$[/QUOTE] You really think those aren't linked?
[QUOTE=Govna;52526019]They ought to paint them like the Bulgarians have in the past for the Ukraine, Pussy Riot, etc. [t]https://cdn2.img.sputniknews.com/images/102017/54/1020175448.jpg[/t] And then blow them up. The Soviets behaved atrociously towards the Poles and deserve no respect or commemoration.[/QUOTE] that superman one is really neat
[QUOTE=download;52528302]You really think those aren't linked?[/QUOTE] It's pretty safe to say that Ukraine has almost nothing to do with this when oil is responsible for 16% of GDP, 52% of federal budget revenues and over 70% of total exports of Russia.
[QUOTE=Megalan;52528380]It's pretty safe to say that Ukraine has almost nothing to do with this when oil is responsible for 16% of GDP, 52% of federal budget revenues and over 70% of total exports of Russia.[/QUOTE] OPEC wanted to shit on US small-margin oil producers but couldn't do it without inflaming relations between them and the US. Then comes along your nation's invasion of Crimea and the US starts trying to make life difficult for Russia. All of a sudden OPEC and the US' goals align so OPEC can now get away with crashing world oil prices. It's not difficult to comprehend stuff.
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;52528163]That's exactly [I]why[/I] it should be preserved. Just in a context of contemplation or understanding, not glorification. So in an exhibit about Socialist Realist art on the ground, and not in a park on a plinth, for example. Not gonna lie though, seeing that swastika disappear in a flash was pretty fuckin' satisfying [T]http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/hungaryphotos/budapest/mementopark/320marxengels.jpg[/T] Y'know putting aside what it represents, this is a nice style. In a vaccum, i quite like it.[/QUOTE] Engels almost looks like David Bowie in the thumbnail. It reminds me of Goldeneye too.
[QUOTE=Megadave;52528697]Lenin almost looks like David Bowie in the thumbnail. It reminds me of Goldeneye too.[/QUOTE]I think that's meant to be Marx and Engels, neither seem meant to be Lenin.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52525935]This is about as ridiculous as the Brits threatening sanctions to us for removing statues of Cromwell for example.[/QUOTE] This is an interesting comparison because Cromwell too was a despotic genocide (albeit on a far smaller scale than the communists) who doesn't really deserve any credit for the things he supposedly brought about.
[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;52538685]This is an interesting comparison because Cromwell too was a despotic genocide (albeit on a far smaller scale than the communists) who doesn't really deserve any credit for the things he supposedly brought about.[/QUOTE] I mean the fact a certain amount of British people still like him even though his 'republic' collapsed after his death is a perfect example of why people all over the world really need to examine their 'patriotism' and be much more critical of their history. He, as you said, was a genocidal dictator who killed thousands upon thousands in Ireland and further extended the evils of English rule. An absolute, evil man. He banned Christmas for fucks sake! How can he even be remembered in a semi-positive light! EDIT: Part of the reason I made that comparison is because it's pretty easy to draw parallels between the experiences of different peoples in different places under nationalistic and authoritarian regimes.
[QUOTE=Govna;52526640]There's a lot of misrepresentation of history here, which doesn't surprise me coming from you since you've had an odd sympathy with Russia for a long time now. The idea that the Soviet troops were there just to liberate Europe from the Germans is a falsehood. While this was certainly the case for [i]some of them[/i], the majority by no means behaved nobly or honorably. Initially after the Soviets split Poland with the Germans, there were massacres and deportations. Between 1939 and 1941, more than 1.5 million people in Eastern Poland were deported and sent to labor camps (few of which survived the ordeal). Of the 320,000 Polish prisoners of war they took, they killed more than 100,000. After Operation Barbarossa, they killed thousands of prisoners they'd been holding at the time. After their return to Poland in 1944, it was hell. As somebody else mentioned, there was of course their decision to not help the rebellion in Warsaw against the Nazis (they allowed them to be exterminated instead)-- which was bad enough. Soviet troops formed bands of roving murder squads who also engaged in mass rape and looting. [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_rapes_in_Poland_(1944-1947)]They actually raped so many women so often that it led to a pandemic of STDs affecting somewhere around 10% of the country's population[/url]. They plundered entire villages, robbed trains, and made the Polish people absolutely despise them. The majority of Soviet troops didn't care about the Poles and viewed them as being only marginally better than the Germans. As far as they were concerned, there wasn't any reason to care about what happened to them-- especially when it was possibly to enrich themselves at their expense. A lot of the Polish women who were evacuated to Germany as slave laborers were raped at the end of the war by the Soviets too. Stalin's response to all of this was typical. Milovan Djilas wrote to him about the mass rapes, looting, and murder occurring in Yugoslavia, to which he replied, "Does Djilas, who is himself a writer, not know what human suffering and the human heart are? Can't he understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometers through blood and fire and death has fun with a wench or takes some trifle?" The truth of the matter is that ordinary Soviet troops (never mind the brutality of the NKVD and the political aspect of things, which is what you're attempting to deflect attention towards) in Poland didn't behave much better than a bunch of filthy barbarians towards the natives. They do not deserve to be commemorated. There should be no statutes standing for them, especially if the Russians think that they can go around making threats like this over said statutes and monuments.[/QUOTE] To add an anecdote: when the Nazis invaded Ukraine, the locals initially celebrated because they thought they had been liberated from the Soviets
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52538726]To add an anecdote: when the Nazis invaded Ukraine, the locals initially celebrated because they thought they had been liberated from the Soviets[/QUOTE] I would celebrate too if the Soviets confiscated my farm,property,killed\jailed my family\relatives\friends and forced me to study their ideology,closed the borders so I couldn't leave my occupied country.
Is Germany the only country in the world that has properly dealt with the dark parts of its history?
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52538779]Is Germany the only country in the world that has properly dealt with the dark parts of its history?[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say Germany has properly dealt with it either. It feels a little bit they're scared of their power, and I think their censorship of swastikas in certain media is not a good idea. I think here in Ireland we have dealt with our dark parts of history well enough, though I do think we need to do more and need to raise awareness of thing such as the sectarian murders of Protestants during the War of Independence and the Civil War, as well as how Eamon de Valera was frighteningly close to a dictator and was not as competent as many people believe.
Guess im ok with Preserving the memorials of the men and women who died during ww2 and etc. Though, the lenin and Stalin statues get old...
[QUOTE=AmberFox;52526194]While I'm not against destroying those Soviet statues and I understand why Poles hate USSR but you guys need to dig deeper.Polish government is really unpopular,especially among the youngsters,they tried to introduce the anti-abortion bill and failed because of protests,they wanted to introduce some repressive laws recently and failed plus the current conservative party has a conflict with EU so they need to unite Poland under something that will bring them votes\popularity and helps their image ourtside of Poland.I guess it's like Crimea for russians so it's not that hard to unite both conservative and liberal if you fight against common foe.I hope if Russian government will implement new sanctions against Poland it will not hit our tourists from Kaliningrad region which buy those tasty sausages and cheese in Poland.[/QUOTE] Yes, the current Polish government is garbage but it doesn't change the fact that theres not many people who want statues around that were placed there by the genocidal Soviets who oppressed Poland for decades. Why would you want a monument around celebrating the group that killed over 20,000 Polish officer POW's, and colluded with the Nazis before Barbarossa began? It's doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, sure, but those monuments needed to be done away with back in the 90's. [editline]4th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=proboardslol;52538726]To add an anecdote: when the Nazis invaded Ukraine, the locals initially celebrated because they thought they had been liberated from the Soviets[/QUOTE] Because in reality they had. The Germans had kicked out the oppressive Soviets and the front line troops of the Wehrmacht, in the beginning of the war, treated the Ukrainian populace well. They even allowed Ukrainian men into military units and the Einsatzgruppen allowed Ukrainian men to form squads to chase Soviet Jews and run rampant in Russia. That sounds awful, but everyone and their brother hated Jews before they saw the consequences of that hate in 1945, so allowing Ukrainian men to participate in the rounding up of Communist supporters and Jews was a pretty popular move. It wasn't until partisans became a big deal and the Germans started taking it out on the civilians that the Ukrainians started to hate the Nazis too. [editline]4th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52538779]Is Germany the only country in the world that has properly dealt with the dark parts of its history?[/QUOTE] They haven't handled their history well, they've just censored it. Pretending WWI and WWII never happened is not a good way to teach youth about atrocities your country is responsible for. German genocide on Jews and other non-aryans should be no more hidden than the British genocide of the Boers or the American genocide of the American Indians.
[QUOTE=153x;52526108]No. If they do take it down (and I believe they should), it is art and should be preserved somewhere, in a museum perhaps. It should be kept for future generations[/QUOTE] Ship them back to Russia, problem solved.
[QUOTE]That sounds awful, but everyone and their brother hated Jews before they saw the consequences of that hate in 1945, so allowing Ukrainian men to participate in the rounding up of Communist supporters and Jews was a pretty popular move. [/QUOTE] Jews were the equivalent of muslims today I guess.They were wealthier than locals in general,lived in ghettos and had their own churches so it's almost like muslims today. [QUOTE]but those monuments needed to be done away with back in the 90's[/QUOTE] I guess those statues were something like a bargain chip for Poland in their talks with Russia and Polish conservatives think they can earn more popularity by destroying them instead of bargaining?We have the Lenin monuments everywhere,the town where I live for now has one Lenin even though our TV-channels call him "a traitor" and "butcher" yet no one try to destroy those statues.When our journalists asking Putin why do we have to keep them then if Lenin was so bad he says something like"but our older generation loves him!You must respect their feelings!We can't rename our streets and towns because of veterans who fought in WW2!!
[QUOTE=AmberFox;52539281]Jews were the equivalent of muslims today I guess.They were wealthier than locals in general,lived in ghettos and had their own churches so it's almost like muslims today.[/quote] eh, kinda. [QUOTE=AmberFox;52539281] I guess those statues were something like a bargain chip for Poland in their talks with Russia and Polish conservatives think they can earn more popularity by destroying them instead of bargaining?We have the Lenin monuments everywhere,the town where I live for now has one Lenin even though our TV-channels call him "a traitor" and "butcher" yet no one try to destroy those statues.When our journalists asking Putin why do we have to keep them then if Lenin was so bad he says something like"but our older generation loves him!You must respect their feelings!We can't rename our streets and towns because of veterans who fought in WW2!![/QUOTE] But you did rename your streets and towns. Leningrad had its named changed back to St. Petersburg, Stalingrad had its name changed back to Volgograd, and Stalino was changed back to Donetsk. Theres probably more cities I don't know about. I'm sure theres a lot of people in Russia who would love to tear the monuments of those dictators down, but considering the way your country handles reporters and protesters, you could turn up dead if you were responsible for such a thing. Poland has the luxury of not worrying about that, so why shouldn't they? Theres not really anything Russia could do about it.
[QUOTE]But you did rename your streets and towns[/QUOTE] We have St.Petersburg but Leningrad region,Ekaterinburg but Sverdlovskiy region or we have three villages in one region which shares one name "Lesnoye" also we have tons of "Lesnoye" in Russia in general.In my region we have Kaliningrad while it would be better to have Koenigsberg since it's way more original and Tilsit>Sovetsk in my opinion(There are two more Sovetsk in Russia).We have the Lenin square in every city and ridiculous names for streets like 40-years of victory and 30-years of victory in the same city.
Russians cling to their version of history, as it is the only thing they can positively relate to in the whole 20th century, considering that during the "better times", Russians were en masse killed and oppressed by the most tyrannical system in the history of mankind. In fact, I doub Hitler could match the efficiency of Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin in murdering Russians, yet they still glorify those ideological bastards. When it comes to Poland, people will no longer tolerate the soviet monuments, as the "censored" generation living in the times of communism is dying off, while there are more and more young people who are certainly aware of the soviet crimes. Fun fact: after the war the Polish town of Katowice had its name changed to "Stalinogród", which means "Stalin's City" in Polish, and it was AFAIK the only case of chaning a city name in Poland to please Uncle. The name was short-lived though, and was changed back after Stalin's death. Edit: I also think that the only way Russia could become a normal country is to completely denounce communism. Without changing their culture or customs. Simply denounce communism and deal with this part of their history, and they would most likely be healed.
[QUOTE=Trek;52539445] I also think that the only way Russia could become a normal country is to completely denounce communism. Without changing their culture or customs. Simply denounce communism and deal with this part of their history, and they would most likely be healed.[/QUOTE] Russia won't get any better until the people that grew up during the communist era all die off or are kicked out of the government.
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;52528163] [T]http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/hungaryphotos/budapest/mementopark/320marxengels.jpg[/T][/QUOTE] half_life_1_software_rendering.jpg
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52539774]half_life_1_software_rendering.jpg[/QUOTE] Hmm that guy on the right.. [img]https://puu.sh/x1HkB/4919140055.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52538726]To add an anecdote: when the Nazis invaded Ukraine, the locals initially celebrated because they thought they had been liberated from the Soviets[/QUOTE] Yep. And after their treatment by the Soviets during the Holodomor that resulted in perhaps as many as 12 million deaths... [quote][b][i]"From 1931 to 1934 we had great harvests. The weather conditions were great. However, all the grain was taken from us. People searched the fields for mice burrows hoping to find measly amounts of grain stored by mice..."[/i][/b] (as remembered by Mykola Karlosh) [b][i]"I still get nauseous when I remember the burial hole that all the dead livestock was thrown into. I still remember people screaming by that hole. Driven to madness by hunger people were ripping the meat of the dead animals. The stronger ones were getting bigger pieces. People ate dogs, cats, just about anything to survive."[/i][/b] (as remembered by Vasil Boroznyak) [b][i]"People were dying all over our village. The dogs ate the ones that were not buried. If people could catch the dogs they were eaten. In the neighboring village people ate bodies that they dug up."[/i][/b] (as remembered by Motrya Mostova) [b][i]"In the spring when acacia trees started blooming everyone began eating their flowers. I remember that our neighbor who didn’t have her own acacia tree climbed on ours and I went to tell my mother that she was eating our flowers. My mother only smiled sadly."[/i][/b] (as remembered by Vasil Demchenko) [b][i]"Of our neighbors I remember all the Solveiki family died, all of the Kapshuks, all the Rahachenkos too - and the Yeremo family - three of them, still alive, were thrown into the mass grave…"[/i][/b] (as remembered by Ekaterina Marchenko) [b][i]"Where did all bread disappear, I do not really know, maybe they have taken it all abroad. The authorities have confiscated it, removed from the villages, loaded grain into the railway coaches and took it away someplace. They have searched the houses, taken away everything to the smallest thing. All the vegetable gardens, all the cellars were raked out and everything was taken away. Wealthy peasants were exiled into Siberia even before Holodomor during the “collectivization”. Communists came, collected everything. Children were crying beaten for that with the boots. It is terrifying to recall what happened. It was so dreadful that every day became engraved in my memory. People were lying everywhere as dead flies. The stench was awful. Many of our neighbors and acquaintances from our street died. I have no idea how I managed to survive and stay alive. In 1933 we tried to survive the best we could. We collected grass, goose-foot, burdocks, rotten potatoes and made pancakes, soups from putrid beans or nettles. Collected gley from the trees and ate it, ate sparrows, pigeons, cats, dead and live dogs. When there was still cattle, it was eaten first, then - the domestic animals. Some were eating their own children, I would have never been able to eat my child. One of our neighbours came home when her husband, suffering from severe starvation ate their own baby-daughter. This woman went crazy. People were drinking a lot of water to fill stomachs, that is why the bellies and legs were swollen, the skin was swelling from the water as well. At that time the punishment for a stolen handful of grain was 5 years of prison. One was not allowed to go into the fields, the sparrows were pecking grain, though people were not allowed."[/i][/b] (From the memories of Olexandra Rafalska, Zhytomir) [b][i]"At that time I lived in the village of Yaressky of the Poltava region. More than a half of the village population perished as a result of the famine. It was terrifying to walk through the village: swollen people moaning and dying. The bodies of the dead were buried together, because there was no one to dig the graves. There were no dogs and no cats. People died at work; it was of no concern whether your body was swollen, whether you could work, whether you have eaten, whether you could – you had to go and work. Otherwise – you are the enemy of the people. Many people never lived to see the crops of 1933 and those crops were considerable. A more severe famine, other sufferings were awaiting ahead. Rye was starting to become ripe. Those who were still able made their way to the fields. This road, however, was covered with dead bodies, some could not reach the fields, some ate grain and died right away. The patrol was hunting them down, collecting everything, trampled down the collected spikelets, beat the people, came into their homes, seized everything. What they could not take – they burned."[/i][/b] (From the memories of Galina Gubenko, Poltava region) [b][i]"The famine began. People were eating cats, dogs in the Ros’ river all the frogs were caught out. Children were gathering insects in the fields and died swollen. Stronger peasants were forced to collect the dead to the cemeteries; they were stocked on the carts like firewood, than dropped off into one big pit. The dead were all around: on the roads, near the river, by the fences. I used to have 5 brothers. Altogether 792 souls have died in our village during the famine, in the war years – 135 souls."[/i][/b] (As remembered by Antonina Meleshchenko, village of Kosivka, region of Kyiv) [b][i]"I remember Holodomor very well, but have no wish to recall it. There were so many people dying then. They were lying out in the streets, in the fields, floating in the flux. My uncle lived in Derevka – he died of hunger and my aunt went crazy – she ate her own child. At the time one couldn’t hear the dogs barking – they were all eaten up.”[/i][/b] (From the memories of Galina Smyrna, village Uspenka of Dniepropetrovsk region) [url=http://www.holodomorct.org/accounts.html](a few more accounts here; I selected these because people [i]NEED[/i] to hear about this stuff)[/url][/quote] ...it's no surprise they were celebrating the arrival of the Germans.
[QUOTE=Govna;52526640]There's a lot of misrepresentation of history here, which doesn't surprise me coming from you since you've had an odd sympathy with Russia for a long time now. The idea that the Soviet troops were there just to liberate Europe from the Germans is a falsehood. While this was certainly the case for [i]some of them[/i], the majority by no means behaved nobly or honorably. Initially after the Soviets split Poland with the Germans, there were massacres and deportations. Between 1939 and 1941, more than 1.5 million people in Eastern Poland were deported and sent to labor camps (few of which survived the ordeal). Of the 320,000 Polish prisoners of war they took, they killed more than 100,000. After Operation Barbarossa, they killed thousands of prisoners they'd been holding at the time. After their return to Poland in 1944, it was hell. As somebody else mentioned, there was of course their decision to not help the rebellion in Warsaw against the Nazis (they allowed them to be exterminated instead)-- which was bad enough. Soviet troops formed bands of roving murder squads who also engaged in mass rape and looting. [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_rapes_in_Poland_(1944-1947)]They actually raped so many women so often that it led to a pandemic of STDs affecting somewhere around 10% of the country's population[/url]. They plundered entire villages, robbed trains, and made the Polish people absolutely despise them. The majority of Soviet troops didn't care about the Poles and viewed them as being only marginally better than the Germans. As far as they were concerned, there wasn't any reason to care about what happened to them-- especially when it was possibly to enrich themselves at their expense. A lot of the Polish women who were evacuated to Germany as slave laborers were raped at the end of the war by the Soviets too. Stalin's response to all of this was typical. Milovan Djilas wrote to him about the mass rapes, looting, and murder occurring in Yugoslavia, to which he replied, "Does Djilas, who is himself a writer, not know what human suffering and the human heart are? Can't he understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometers through blood and fire and death has fun with a wench or takes some trifle?" The truth of the matter is that ordinary Soviet troops (never mind the brutality of the NKVD and the political aspect of things, which is what you're attempting to deflect attention towards) in Poland didn't behave much better than a bunch of filthy barbarians towards the natives. They do not deserve to be commemorated. There should be no statutes standing for them, especially if the Russians think that they can go around making threats like this over said statutes and monuments.[/QUOTE] Those damn Russian subhumans, all they ever do is rape and pillage like the slavic untermensch they are. I am ashamed my great grandfather fought in the war as a soviet and literally raped all women in all of Europe, if only the German liberators had saved slavdom from the evil super rapists and killed off my family line would Poland truly be free. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Pascall))[/highlight]
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.