US military suicides in charts: how they overtook combat deaths - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Falchion;39537796]Well he's also a brony so he kinda is terrible anyways.[/QUOTE] Come on man, lets not bring that up in this thread. Show some respect.

[QUOTE=SKEEA;39538355]Come on man, lets not bring that up in this thread. Show some respect.[/QUOTE] Sorry General Fluttershy

Fucking bronies Seriously though, SKEEA is in the military and knows his shit, he's not some dumbshit straight out of boot, he's a Sgt or something. They screen and condition people to withstand PTSD, it's really not as prevalent as people think in a modern military. I agree with SEEKA, homelife is probably the hardest part of a soldiers life. I'm sure we could dig up studies on it [editline]11th February 2013[/editline] [url]http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/military/story/2012-07-10/army-study-soldiers-suicides/56136192/1[/url] [quote]Meanwhile, a new Pentagon analysis released Tuesday shows that suicide rates in the military were highest among people divorced or separated — with a rate of 19 per 100,000 — 24% higher than troops who are single.[/quote] I think the fact it's high amongst separate people says something it has to do mostly with relationships

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39537226]At least death from combat is lower than the suicide rate. Really, it's amazing that only a few hundred people are dying in wars compared to the millions of the past.[/QUOTE] Wars have been on a smaller scale recently.

[QUOTE=Forumaster;39534732]How about we quit fighting pointless, stupid wars? Kinda hard to get PTSD when you don't get subjected to mental and emotional trauma.[/QUOTE] tell that to the politicians

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;39538653]Wars have been on a smaller scale recently.[/QUOTE] They've been declining overall for decades, along with the casualties involved. Europe hasn't had any wars since WW2 (excepting the breakup of Yugoslavia)

[QUOTE=download;39538627]Fucking bronies Seriously though, SKEEA is in the military and knows his shit, he's not some dumbshit straight out of boot, [B]he's a Sgt or something[/B]. They screen and condition people to withstand PTSD, it's really not as prevalent as people think in a modern military. I agree with SEEKA, homelife is probably the hardest part of a soldiers life. I'm sure we could dig up studies on it [editline]11th February 2013[/editline] [url]http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/military/story/2012-07-10/army-study-soldiers-suicides/56136192/1[/url] I think the fact it's high amongst separate people says something it has to do mostly with relationships[/QUOTE] I doubt that, he is just a helicopter repairman if I remember correctly.

[QUOTE=VistaPOWA;39538991]I doubt that, he is just a helicopter repairman if I remember correctly.[/QUOTE] While I am not a Sergeant (E-5), just a SPC (E-4), your job does not change when you advance in rank. I am the only junior enlisted in my troop, the rest are Sergeant and above. Hell, the platoon sergeants are out there with us helping with maintenance just the same. The more you know! [editline]10th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=download;39538627]Fucking bronies Seriously though, SKEEA is in the military and knows his shit, he's not some dumbshit straight out of boot, he's a Sgt or something. They screen and condition people to withstand PTSD, it's really not as prevalent as people think in a modern military. I agree with SEEKA, homelife is probably the hardest part of a soldiers life. I'm sure we could dig up studies on it [editline]11th February 2013[/editline] [url]http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/military/story/2012-07-10/army-study-soldiers-suicides/56136192/1[/url] I think the fact it's high amongst separate people says something it has to do mostly with relationships[/QUOTE] Yeah, it is usually something related to relationships. One of my sergeants got sent to a mental hospital when his wife started causing major problems for him and filed for divorce. He is out now, but it just goes to show how stressful relationships can be when you are in the military. Hell, a lot of relationships are already very stressful without all of the stuff that the military piles on.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39538854]They've been declining overall for decades, along with the casualties involved. Europe hasn't had any wars since WW2 (excepting the breakup of Yugoslavia)[/QUOTE] Yeah we managed to outsource that shit to Africa just like we managed to outsource shipwrecking/trashpicking to India and the iron industry to China. The toxic waste of Germany's world-leading in quality solar cell production is dumped into the Atlantic by France, our cars get wrecked in Africa.

Well for my unit/division it was all that shit plus there were the guys who got constantly fucked with and picked on until they couldn't take it anymore. It's sad though, you'd think people would grow up and stop acting like school bullies but that shit is still there and so that's one problem. Another problem is that although people say that the military is trying they really aren't. I've seen people who have issues but don't or can't get help because they either don't want to be seen as being weak or their leadership thinks that the person is bullshitting and just trying to get out of work. So you'll here shit like "Suck it up" "You're lying get back to work" "Stop acting like a bitch" "It's not my problem, fix it on you're own time" etc. I've seen a couple of these guys go down hill from that point and resort to stuff like drugs and alcohol just to cope. You're leadership would rather ignore the problem and send a guy to field training or on another deployment just so they can make numbers. Basically what I've seen: Guy has issues, doesn't want to get help. Guy has issues, wants help, but is too embarrassed or ashamed to seek it out of fear of being seen as weak or crazy. Leadership knows about guy's issues, doesn't care because they would rather have him at work for one reason or another. Leadership doesn't know but suspects something is wrong, shrugs it off and sends him back to work. Leadership knows, but doesn't think it's their problem and so they ignore it.

Also you forgot Georgia and to be honest that shit happening in the Meditareneanenea(fuck that word it's the Middle-Sea9 to prevent people from getting into the EU is pretty heavy too. Oh and then there are the armed boats along Somalia, the way we payed Gadaffi to keep Northern Africa clean, the US paying Egypt(and funnily enough Israel) to keep Somalia in check and Palestine alive.

[QUOTE=Falchion;39537796]Well he's also a brony so he kinda is terrible anyways.[/QUOTE] Who gives 2 shits, honestly.

itt everyone thinks the cause for every military suicide can be pinpointed on a single issue

[QUOTE=soccerskyman;39542659]itt everyone thinks the cause for every military suicide can be pinpointed on a single issue[/QUOTE] Except I've only pointed out a few. I never said there wasn't more than one.

[QUOTE=Sonydude;39535398]I would imagine those who come home to a stable, 'as they left it' family and environment, are better off and would bet it is shown in statistics. IIRC, he is military and would know a bit more about PTSD and the military environment more than the average person.[/QUOTE] Being military doesn't get you magical insight about PTSD [editline]11th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SKEEA;39528054]The thing is, that they usually happen when military personnel get home and find that their wife cheated on them, or took everything and left, or some other bad things happened while they were away, and it just hits them all at once. It really sucks, but it happens. War related stress is not really a big cause of suicide, it is stuff that is going on at the "homefront" that gets to them.[/QUOTE] Then compare statistics of divorced men and divorced military service men. You might disagree but in most cases I'd argue that this stress of war reaches further than mere bullets.

[QUOTE=kaskade700;39546172]Being military doesn't get you magical insight about PTSD[/QUOTE] his first hand accounts of helping friends, and people around him with PTSD, and seeing first hand the results of it being left untreated gives him more insight than you and I.

[QUOTE=kaskade700;39546172]Being military doesn't get you magical insight about PTSD[/QUOTE] It can. Depending on your job you could be working/have worked with people who have or show signs of PTSD. [editline].[/editline] I've seen it multiple times when team members come back from overseas.

[QUOTE=danelo;39527504]Or what's causing it.[/QUOTE] gee, the whole killing people aspect might have something to do with it.

[QUOTE=Pink_Panther;39534197]Actually, that's a long-running myth: [URL]http://www.uswings.com/vietnamfacts.asp[/URL] [URL]http://www.ndqsa.com/suicide.html[/URL][/QUOTE] The other source was good, but uswings.com was terrible, no citations and just talked about how great the Vietnam war was...

[QUOTE=SKEEA;39528081]That is one of the stigmas that we are trying to combat, the stigma behind asking for help. It is indeed a problem, and a lot of servicemembers think that it would negatively impact their career if they go and ask for help, which is not true. However, sometimes their mind is absolutely made up and they just off themselves randomly so no one will stop them. It is a very sad state of affairs.[/QUOTE] even when you ask for help the care and response you get is currently to ludicrously terrible levels. They just line you up and tell you "your fine" and send you back out.

[QUOTE=ScoutKing;39546272]his first hand accounts of helping friends, and people around him with PTSD, and seeing first hand the results of it being left untreated gives him more insight than you and I.[/QUOTE] I've been a firefighter for two years, does that make me more qualified to talk about PTSD? Nope. Neither firefighters, military personnel or anyone with a job that requires you to reflect about, or relate to PTSd has access to any information the average layman doesn't have.

[QUOTE=kaskade700;39547572]I've been a firefighter for two years, does that make me more qualified to talk about PTSD? Nope. Neither firefighters, military personnel or anyone with a job that requires you to reflect about, or relate to PTSd has access to any information the average layman doesn't have.[/QUOTE] He has experienced it first hand, he has more right to discuss it than the average layman

[QUOTE=-Rusty-;39539895]Well for my unit/division it was all that shit plus there were the guys who got constantly fucked with and picked on until they couldn't take it anymore. It's sad though, you'd think people would grow up and stop acting like school bullies but that shit is still there and so that's one problem. Another problem is that although people say that the military is trying they really aren't. I've seen people who have issues but don't or can't get help because they either don't want to be seen as being weak or their leadership thinks that the person is bullshitting and just trying to get out of work. So you'll here shit like "Suck it up" "You're lying get back to work" "Stop acting like a bitch" "It's not my problem, fix it on you're own time" etc. I've seen a couple of these guys go down hill from that point and resort to stuff like drugs and alcohol just to cope. You're leadership would rather ignore the problem and send a guy to field training or on another deployment just so they can make numbers. Basically what I've seen: Guy has issues, doesn't want to get help. Guy has issues, wants help, but is too embarrassed or ashamed to seek it out of fear of being seen as weak or crazy. Leadership knows about guy's issues, doesn't care because they would rather have him at work for one reason or another. Leadership doesn't know but suspects something is wrong, shrugs it off and sends him back to work. Leadership knows, but doesn't think it's their problem and so they ignore it.[/QUOTE] to be fair, is it really that surprising that a organization whose job basically bogs down to "train people to kill other people" and requires you to be "manly" as in not complain, suck it up, be detached to all the shit happening around you, etc might suck in handling psicological issues? i mean come on. doesn't exactly help that a lot of officers(in any army in the planet) tend to be idiots/crazy/arrogant from what i hear.

[QUOTE=download;39547681]He has experienced it first hand, [B]he has more right to discuss it than the average layman[/B][/QUOTE] Whelp what is this place coming to

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;39547731]to be fair, is it really that surprising that a organization whose job basically bogs down to "train people to kill other people" and requires you to be "manly" as in not complain, suck it up, be detached to all the shit happening around you, etc might suck in handling psicological issues? i mean come on. doesn't exactly help that a lot of officers(in any army in the planet) tend to be idiots/crazy/arrogant from what i hear.[/QUOTE] Actually the platoon leaders I've had(except for one) were really good guys, it was mainly the enlisted guys who were idiots/crazy/arrogant.

[QUOTE=kaskade700;39547845]Whelp what is this place coming to[/QUOTE] So you can talk as accurately about something you have no experience with as someone with direct experience? Not everything can be learned and known through research.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39548045]So you can talk as accurately about something you have no experience with as someone with direct experience? Not everything can be learned and known through research.[/QUOTE] If you're going to have a sensible discussion you're going to want to put a lid on your anecdotal experience parade and apply some structure to your arguments.

We get an intensive suicide prevention briefing 4 times a year that has the most current studies of suicides in the Army and the causes thereof, as well as how to prevent it and some possible signs. Also, I am providing structure to my "arguments" by providing direct examples of first hand experience. I have other stories too, but sometimes I really don't want to talk about it. First hand experience provides a strong backbone to whatever argument you are trying to make.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;39547556]even when you ask for help the care and response you get is currently to ludicrously terrible levels. They just line you up and tell you "your fine" and send you back out.[/QUOTE] And your evidence to support this assertion is where exactly? Read some unsubstantiated news reports? The main problem surrounding PTSD is the stigma attached, if people start noticing it within themselves they won't report it or try to get help. The medical care for service personnel is actually pretty good. Especially in the British Army, the value placed on the life of a soldier has sky rocketed over the last 10 years. If you report PTSD, you will get help.

[QUOTE=kaskade700;39548083]If you're going to have a sensible discussion you're going to want to put a lid on your anecdotal experience parade and apply some structure to your arguments.[/QUOTE] You're going to have to start arguing instead of simply going "Hurr, PTSD, I know because I do". All you keep doing is saying you know better than a soldier who has been there and done that.