• Man saves drowning family, but they leave him to drown in return
    259 replies, posted
[QUOTE=The golden;36798737]Holy shit you have some serious issues.[/QUOTE] If you wouldn't kill someone to protect your family, you don't deserve to have children. If you can't bring it on yourself to do the whole fucking point of being a father/mother, then you're a bad father/mother. The family unit, at it's most basic, is an economic unit which protects the smallest most defenseless members
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798739]I'm saying they have no obligation to help him[/QUOTE] So are you saying he shouldn't have saved their lives to begin with?
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798727]that's why I said pseudo-kantian. People will reason that stealing or murder is always wrong until they need to do it for their family to survive. And that's exactly what they should do. then if pressed on this, they'll become cold and stoic and say they did what they had to do.[/QUOTE] Except this is textbook cowardice and did in no way help their family survive, the other person, on the other hand, did. Nice strawman, though.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798762]If you wouldn't kill someone to protect your family, you don't deserve to have children.[/QUOTE] Do you have children?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36798749]So then he shouldn't have saved their lives, then.[/QUOTE] Perhaps. It was his choice. It was his imperfect duty
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798762][b]If you wouldn't kill someone to protect your family, you don't deserve to have children[/b]. If you can't bring it on yourself to do the whole fucking point of being a father/mother, then you're a bad father/mother. The family unit, at it's most basic, is an economic unit which protects the smallest most defenseless members[/QUOTE] Says fucking who? Which universal logic dictates this?
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798727]that's why I said pseudo-kantian. People will reason that stealing or murder is always wrong until they need to do it for their family to survive. And that's exactly what they should do. then if pressed on this, they'll become cold and stoic and say they did what they had to do.[/QUOTE] But why are you even referring to kantian, then? I didn't identify it, I didn't use its principles at all. And just because people change their minds in a time of crisis doesn't mean the position they defended originally is wrong, it means they acted irrationally. And you still haven't put forward any argument for egoism.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798762]The family unit, at it's most basic, is an economic unit which protects the smallest most defenseless members[/QUOTE] What are you from the fifth fucking century [editline]16th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=prooboo;36798774]Perhaps. It was his choice. It was his imperfect duty[/QUOTE] So if you and your family are drowning, you'd be A-Okay if nobody helped you and they just let you die. I mean we all know you'd murder a motherfucker, you've made that much clear, but that won't save you from the open water. You'd need someone to help you, and you're arguing that nobody should help anybody.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36798771]Do you have children?[/QUOTE] No, but I have parents, and when I was a toddler, I know for a fact that if I were at risk of being killed, my parents (and any good parent, really), would murder someone to protect their child. That's the parent's most basic job, to protect their child no matter what.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798795]No.[/QUOTE] [B]Good.[/B] [I]Never[/I] have children, you bastard coated bastard with bastard filling. If having children turns you into a killer, you should not have them. For the sake of the rest of the fucking world, get snipped.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798795]No, but I have parents, and when I was a toddler, I know for a fact that if I were at risk of being killed, my parents (and any good parent, really), would murder someone to protect their child. That's the parent's most basic job, to protect their child no matter what.[/QUOTE] That's a completely different subject to whats being discussed here.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798795]No, but I have parents, and when I was a toddler, I know for a fact that if I were at risk of being killed, my parents (and any good parent, really), would murder someone to protect their child. That's the parent's most basic job, to protect their child no matter what.[/QUOTE] Not true at all. If I have a kid that raped and murdered someone and is on the run asking me for money I will turn that fucker in. You should feel awful as a person if you were in that family and didn't return the favor of saving a life.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36798779]What are you from the fifth fucking century [/quote] We're animals. [quote]So if you and your family are drowning, you'd be A-Okay if nobody helped you and they just let you die. I mean we all know you'd murder a motherfucker, you've made that much clear, but that won't save you from the open water. You'd need someone to help you, and you're arguing that nobody should help anybody.[/QUOTE] Hell no, I'd be fucking pissed if I saw this dude walking by, totally able to help me. But my emotions and feelings can't get in the way of rational judgement. That guy is in no way obligated to do anything against his own will, morally speaking that is.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798762]If you wouldn't kill someone to protect your family, you don't deserve to have children.[/QUOTE] "If I over-simplify morality to COLD HARD SURVIVAL maybe people will think I'm a badass" [QUOTE=prooboo;36798829]We're animals.[/QUOTE] Point proven.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36798809]That's a completely different subject to whats being discussed here.[/QUOTE] It really isn't. the discussion is about the limits of moral reasoning in relationship to the family unit
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798829]We're animals. Hell no, I'd be fucking pissed if I saw this dude walking by, totally able to help me. But my emotions and feelings can't get in the way of rational judgement. That guy is in no way obligated to do anything against his own will, morally speaking that is.[/QUOTE] So essentially you're saying its perfectly ethical to leave people to die, fantastic.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798829]Hell no, I'd be fucking pissed if I saw this dude walking by, totally able to help me. But my emotions and feelings can't get in the way of rational judgement. That guy is in no way obligated to do anything against his own will, morally speaking that is.[/QUOTE] Well, for what it's worth, I'd let you drown. I'd save everyone else but you're on your own. You can [I]clearly[/I] handle things, you hardboiled motherfucker you.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798847]It really isn't. the discussion is about the limits of moral reasoning in relationship to the family unit[/QUOTE] The first thing you said was that you'd kill an entire family to save your own, killing someone who is trying to kill you is simply self defence which is morally different to killing an entire innocent family.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;36798835]"If I over-simplify morality to COLD HARD SURVIVAL maybe people will think I'm a badass"[/QUOTE] It's not simplifying morality, it's describing the family unit. No one [I]made[/I] you have a family, but if you choose to have one, accept the responsibility associated with it. If you can't accept the responsibility of protecting a child to the fullest extent possible, you're going to be a bad parent.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798762][b]If you wouldn't kill someone to protect your family[/b], you don't deserve to have children. If you can't bring it on yourself to do the whole fucking point of being a father/mother, then you're a bad father/mother. The family unit, at it's most basic, is an economic unit which protects the smallest most defenseless members[/QUOTE] I get what you mean, but this situation is different. A man has put himself in danger to save your whole family. After you're safe and whatnot, this guy is in danger himself. [I]This doesn't mean you have to put your ENTIRE family in danger to save him.[/I] A phone call to emergency services would still help him more than walking away.
What. The. [I]Fuck.[/I]
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798873]It's not simplifying morality[/QUOTE] No, you're disregarding it completely. Fuck your family. If this is how you think, take your shitty kids and your shitty wife and go live alone in a shitty cave away from the rest of us. We live in a society. If this is your worldview, you do not belong in a society. You belong in the fucking woods.
[QUOTE=The golden;36798876]He's already proven multiple times that he's fucked in the head. No real point arguing with him.[/QUOTE] Arguing with people like him is one of the reasons I come to sensationalist headlines :v:
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36798868]The first thing you said was that you'd kill an entire family to save your own, killing someone who is trying to kill you is simply self defence which is morally different to killing an entire innocent family.[/QUOTE] if the only way to save my family (say I'm in some sort of "saw" scenario, or battle royale kind of thing where if I kill the other family, mine will be let go), I will kill the other family with as little hesitation as possible. Don't think I'm trying to look like some sort of stoic badass here, I would probably feel horrible about myself and feel bad for doing it, but I wouldn't regret the decision.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36798897]Arguing with people like him is one of the reasons I come to sensationalist headlines :v:[/QUOTE] I think it's safe to say that most of us share that prospect.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798873]It's not simplifying morality, it's describing the family unit. No one [I]made[/I] you have a family, but if you choose to have one, accept the responsibility associated with it. If you can't accept the responsibility of protecting a child to the fullest extent possible, you're going to be a bad parent.[/QUOTE] Having a family doesn't give you the right to leave someone who just helped you to die, you should at least do SOMETHING, even if it doesn't entail risking your own life.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798873]It's not simplifying morality, it's describing the family unit. No one [I]made[/I] you have a family, but if you choose to have one, accept the responsibility associated with it. If you can't accept the responsibility of protecting a child to the fullest extent possible, you're going to be a bad parent.[/QUOTE] if I choose to have a job, I dedicated myself to the business unit. The most basic thing of it is doing your work. If someone stops you from doing that work, should you go to any extent to stop them?
If all of society shared prooboos morals then I'd want to call good game and get the hell out of that society. That family are terrible excuses of humans beings. They should have helped in any way instead of none.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36798873]It's not simplifying morality, it's describing the family unit. No one [I]made[/I] you have a family, but if you choose to have one, accept the responsibility associated with it. If you can't accept the responsibility of protecting a child to the fullest extent possible, you're going to be a bad parent.[/QUOTE] Because that isn't subjective at all. I guess it's a good thing you'll never have a family of your own, judging from your excellent understanding of ethics and living in society. And if you do, well, I fear for your children.
[QUOTE=Chicken_Chaser;36798932]If all of society shared prooboos morals then I'd want to call good game and get the hell out of that society. That family are terrible excuses of humans beings. They should have helped in any way instead of none.[/QUOTE] If all of society shared prooboo's batshit crazy, we wouldn't have a society. Kind of motherfucker who wants to benefit from society but never contribute to it. "You can help me out if you want, but I'll [I]never[/I] help you."
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