• Man saves drowning family, but they leave him to drown in return
    259 replies, posted
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36799340]I'd strongly disagree, I feel there is a difference between doing it solely for gratification, and doing something for someone else and gratification being a mere product of it, because they did what they believed was right.[/QUOTE] But aren't you only doing it because you're hard-wired to like doing that action? Do you not always do what you believe is right? (and belief and rational acceptance is different). there are 2 things you can do things for. For emotional/intellectual/ mental gain or for solid things, states of the world, like having a dog not killed, you know what I mean? If the desire to do something comes from those solid things, it wouldn't be too much to say that it could function without the emotions, because it doesn't do it because of them. But you do what you want, and wanting is an emotion in itself. So the things you do must be because of emotional/intellectual gains. Which are selfish. I could go and elaborate on why I think this boils down to happiness and unhappiness, but fuck it.
the video about the asian kid being driven over is not only society's fault. parents have to watch over their children. despite that, it's really sad.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36799452]If you've always felt good about making the right decision, you haven't had to make very many real decisions in your life. Oftentimes the right decision is something that ends up impacting you negatively.[/QUOTE] it doesn't necessarily have to happen so you feel good, it can just happen to cut your losses. Like going out to work is unjoyable but starving to death is more unjoyable.
I hope karma does exist because that is despicable.
And guys, please, let's be civil, the guy actually said some thoughtful arguments, let's work on debunking what he said instead of just insulting him.
I can't feel anything but contempt for that family. They'll get theirs one day.
Is someone really defending this disgusting action, and the Chinese's pretty fucking appalling culture?
[QUOTE=MountainWatcher;36799663]But aren't you only doing it because you're hard-wired to like doing that action? Do you not always do what you believe is right? (and belief and rational acceptance is different). there are 2 things you can do things for. For emotional/intellectual/ mental gain or for solid things, states of the world, like having a dog not killed, you know what I mean? If the desire to do something comes from those solid things, it wouldn't be too much to say that it could function without the emotions, because it doesn't do it because of them. But you do what you want, and wanting is an emotion in itself. So the things you do must be because of emotional/intellectual gains. Which are selfish. I could go and elaborate on why I think this boils down to happiness and unhappiness, but fuck it.[/QUOTE] I'm certainly not hardwired to believe anything, my opinions on various things change ridiculously frequently, my morals on what is good and bad and ranged from the absolutely fucked in the head to near altruism. However if I could get out of my selfish rut I would do things for the well being of others rather than myself, which I would define as altruism, regardless of whether I feel what I did was right or not, it should still be counted as altruism if I did it for the good of others rather than my own gratification, regardless of whether I feel gratification for doing it.
These people should just be put on an island and left for dead.
[QUOTE=BloodyDragon;36798122]and yours havent stopped[/QUOTE] this isn't oify stop posting
I want to see a story where this guy turns out alive and pushes this shit family into a lake.
[QUOTE=Clementine;36799623]China.[/QUOTE] chinese people are afraid of helping because they're afraid of being held responsible this [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15331773]bbc article[/url] explains why
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36799788]I'm certainly not hardwired to believe anything, my opinions on various things change ridiculously frequently, my morals on what is good and bad and ranged from the absolutely fucked in the head to near altruism. However if I could get out of my selfish rut I would do things for the well being of others rather than myself, which I would define as altruism, regardless of whether I feel what I did was right or not, it should still be counted as altruism if I did it for the good of others rather than my own gratification, regardless of whether I feel gratification for doing it.[/QUOTE] "hardwired" was a bad choice, I'll give you that. conditioned I mean. You always feel happy when doing A (if your taste, in the moment) is A or the inverse for things you don't like. And my argument is that any consciousness, be it human or otherwise, can not, as an impossibility to things for the benefit of others (directly, as first step).
Hey is that asshole gone? I just read the thread [I]Go fuck yourself.[/I]
[QUOTE=MountainWatcher;36799870]"hardwired" was a bad choice, I'll give you that. conditioned I mean. You always feel happy when doing A (if your taste, in the moment) is A or the inverse for things you don't like. And my argument is that any consciousness, be it human or otherwise, can not, as an impossibility to things for the benefit of others (directly, as first step).[/QUOTE] How is it impossible to do things primarily for the good of others?
[QUOTE=MountainWatcher;36799725]And guys, please, let's be civil, the guy actually said some thoughtful arguments, let's work on debunking what he said instead of just insulting him.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry if I was too angry, his first post made me very mad. However, some of his arguments... they are just so wrong, and I just can't get it off my head that he begins talking about metaphysics that hasn't got much to do with morale. From what I've learned from philosophy, it's just endless debate and questions (although some sub-categories like morale and social philosophy are interesting and might even be useful) Anyways, back to the article, it's sad that these kind of stuff happen (not just in China) and I hope justice will be served somehow
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36799888]How is it impossible to do things primarily for the good of others?[/QUOTE] Well, that's why I wrote all that in my other post, mang :v:
[QUOTE=MountainWatcher;36799922]Well, that's why I wrote all that in my other post, mang :v:[/QUOTE] It's entirely possible to do things primarily for others and have the feeling of having done good be simply a secondary effect.
[QUOTE=Clementine;36799770]Is someone really defending this disgusting action, and the Chinese's pretty fucking appalling culture?[/QUOTE] you have very little understanding of chinese culture
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36800027]It's entirely possible to do things primarily for others and have the feeling of having done good be simply a secondary effect.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but that isn't really an argument, can you refute what I said?
[QUOTE=Dori;36800030]you have very little understanding of chinese culture[/QUOTE] just because it's part of their culture doesn't make it OK
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;36800049]just because it's part of their culture doesn't make it OK[/QUOTE] doesn't make what okay?
[QUOTE=Dori;36800077]doesn't make what okay?[/QUOTE] this event/the punishment of altruists, IE: the "fucking appalling" part of their culture that Clementine mentioned
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;36800104]this event/the punishment of altruists, IE: the "fucking appalling" part of their culture that Clementine mentioned[/QUOTE] the punishment of altruists is the fault of the chinese government, not chinese culture
[QUOTE=Someguy13;36799604]I still don't understand why prooboo keeps throwing some philosophy stuff (in a dumb way), it's just not suitable here. Mr Deng's and the family's actions can simply be explained via Psychology. Deng did obviously care about the family, but the family didn't care about him. It's similar to narcissism. Now that we are speaking about psychology, I think prooboo is just too dumb to believe in science, so he just throws some philosohpy. He just keeps talking about some "wise stuff" that we have learned from high school[/QUOTE] It's not psychology, it's epistemology, and psychology is hardly a pure science anyways
[QUOTE=MountainWatcher;36800041]I'm sorry, but that isn't really an argument, can you refute what I said?[/QUOTE] I don't really see what there is to refute, you're saying that because we have emotions we can only do things for the sake of our own gain, whether that be emotional or otherwise, however I don't see how one cannot do something for the gain of others. I don't see how doing something for the good of another cannot be altruistic simply because no matter what happens you get something out of it. I mean if you deem altruism as doing something for literally no gain what so ever then of course it's impossible since you can always argue that you will get at least something out of it, however I would say that altruism is based on the reason for doing the act, not the result of it, thus doing something for someone elses gain to gain happiness yourself is not altruist, however if you do something for the gain of another, because you feel it is right that they gain something and happiness is merely a product of doing what you feel was right then I don't see how that isn't altruism (this is getting kind of mind bending) In fact the definition of pure altruism is to do somethingfor others and [I]expect[/I] nothing in return, it does not mean you cannot gain anything in retun just that you shouldn't expect it, thus a happy emotion being forced on you doesn't really negate the idea of altruism.
[QUOTE=Dori;36800116]the punishment of altruists is the fault of the chinese government, not chinese culture[/QUOTE] Government defines culture in many extremely shitty countries, the overly controlling government of China has therefore made its culture incredibly bad because of its borderline totalitarian rule.
[QUOTE=Dori;36800030]you have very little understanding of chinese culture[/QUOTE] Say what you want, but China's stigma around having baby girls is setting them up for a population crash of absolutely biblical proportions. We spend all day giving Western culture shit. There's no "oh suddenly we have to respect eastern bullshit because they're far away." China's got a whole boatload of bullshit to their own. While some of that can be pinned on the government, a lot of it can't in the same way that we can't blame western misogyny or theocratic bullshit on government. First step in solving a problem is recognizing that there [I]is[/I] a problem. Admonishing someone as a xenophobe for doing just that accomplishes nothing, and simply perpetuates a flawed status quo.
I'd leave as well. I never asked for this. I didn't ask them to save me, let me die!
Survival of the fittest I guess.
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