The Courier Mail in hot water over their transphobic front cover regarding the woman who was chopped
68 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46181525]On that note - an someone tell me how to safely refer to a transitioning transgender's biological state? As in, their genitals don't match the rest of their body?
A very close friend is transgendered and neither of us can figure out a safe descriptor for this. Transgendered only accounts for the mental state, not the physical condition. And all of the ones I've heard are shoveled onto the slur pile (there are quite a few).
I'm not really keen on trekking into tumblr to find out.[/QUOTE]
A lot of people don't actually like the term "transgendered" with the -ed added, so keep that in mind.
You should really only refer to them by their chosen pronoun, because biological state doesn't matter. It's what they want to be referred to that matters.
[QUOTE=Dalndox;46181595]A lot of people don't actually like the term "transgendered" with the -ed added, so keep that in mind.
You should really only refer to them by their chosen pronoun, because biological state doesn't matter. It's what they want to be referred to that matters.[/QUOTE]
I'm speaking in more of a medical sense, not what they feel good inside about.
As in, I need to describe someone with a female appearance but male genitalia, or a male appearance with female genitalia. I know it "doesn't matter" in common parlance but if you were to specifically describe someone's physical state, there's no way to do so (that I know of) without offending them. MtF and FtM (the only descriptors I could find) imply some state of ongoing transition, which may not always be true.
That is really demeaning.
Not to be blunt, but it's really none of your business where they physically stand in their transition, if they choose to do so. If they say to refer to them as [gender], then do it.
And why do other people need to know what genitalia they have?
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
Unless you're writing a paper on this person, or are their physician, where they stand medically shouldn't even come up in conversation.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46182038]I'm speaking in more of a medical sense, not what they feel good inside about.
As in, I need to describe someone with a female appearance but male genitalia, or a male appearance with female genitalia. I know it "doesn't matter" in common parlance but if you were to specifically describe someone's physical state, there's no way to do so (that I know of) without offending them. MtF and FtM (the only descriptors I could find) imply some state of ongoing transition, which may not always be true.[/QUOTE]
It's MtF or FtM, but you are coming across as a bit of a dick. There's not really any reason to be clinical about their genitals in casual conversation. If your friend is a trans woman (born/raised as a man) then they're she/her, and if they're a trans man (born/raised a woman) they're he/him.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;46182954]It's MtF or FtM, but you are coming across as a bit of a dick. There's not really any reason to be clinical about their genitals in casual conversation. If your friend is a trans woman (born/raised as a man) then they're she/her, and if they're a trans man (born/raised a woman) they're he/him.[/QUOTE]
I am not talking about casual conversation. I am not going to refer to anyone by this unless they are totally OK with it. I am not going to be a prickass and demand to know what's in your pants. I really, truly do not care.
As I said, in a [I]medical[/I] sense, I don't know of any safe word to define that state. If you want to misinterpret that and assume the worst of me and my curiosity, then that's your perogative. But there is a slight problem here when I ask for what to safely call someone's physical body and get yelled at for being insensitive. Are doctors just not supposed to write about it? Is it some magic secret that nobody can discuss? What if someone [i]wants[/i] to identify themselves like that to explain their physical state to someone? Are you going to stop them bevause they might trip and offend themselves? Pronouns are all well and good but when someone [I]wants[/I] to explain what's going on down there, there's suddenly nothing they can say?
If you're not going to answer the question then don't. But you can't say it's not a legitimate question and then sidestep it and call me a dick for asking.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46190776]I am not talking about casual conversation. I am not going to refer to anyone by this unless they are totally OK with it. I am not going to be a prickass and demand to know what's in your pants. I really, truly do not care.
As I said, in a [I]medical[/I] sense, I don't know of any safe word to define that state. If you want to misinterpret that and assume the worst of me and my curiosity, then that's your perogative. But there is a slight problem here when I ask for what to safely call someone's physical body and get yelled at for being insensitive. Are doctors just not supposed to write about it? Is it some magic secret that nobody can discuss? What if someone [i]wants[/i] to identify themselves like that to explain their physical state to someone? Are you going to stop them bevause they might trip and offend themselves? Pronouns are all well and good but when someone [I]wants[/I] to explain what's going on down there, there's suddenly nothing they can say?
If you're not going to answer the question then don't. But you can't say it's not a legitimate question and then sidestep it and call me a dick for asking.[/QUOTE]
[quote]It's MtF or FtM[/quote]
Literally the first four words of the post you quoted.
[QUOTE=Dalndox;46190984]Literally the first four words of the post you quoted.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]MtF and FtM (the only descriptors I could find) imply some state of ongoing transition, which may not always be true.[/QUOTE]
Did you read my post or just decide to call me an asshole for no reason?
MtF (Male-to-Female) implies only the transition. It says nothing specifically about the physical state - they could be physically & visually male, physically & visually female (well, to the extent that today's doctors can reach that goal), or anywhere in between. FtM is the same way. They only refer to the fact that someone is acting on their GID.
It's like someone asking "are you driving here?" and you responding with "I own a car". It's a vague answer that doesn't specify what you're actually doing, but just qualifies you for maybe doing it.
Intersex is the closest I can find for the mixed area but is far too broad of a term. If there's no term for this, then just say so. But don't hide behind "it's offensive and insensitive to not call someone their chosen pronoun". I get that. Move on.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.