British Telecommunications suing Valve over alleged Steam patent infringement - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Kybalt;50982194]This is completely insane. This literally describes all chat clients that deliver messages without both parties being online. Skype, FB Chat, whatever Chat Client Google is pushing now, etc [editline]1st September 2016[/editline][/QUOTE] Even MSN Messenger did it. It may not be a patent on IM in general, but at this point it may as well be.

[QUOTE=smurfy;50978821]This actually sounds pretty plausible:[QUOTE]The filing continues “Valve has failed to respond to BT’s correspondence, at all[/QUOTE][/QUOTE] Even Valve's total lack of communication stems into serious legalese.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50982321]What the fuck no? Thats a fucking terrible idea.[/QUOTE] I'm not hoping for Steam to go down, which wouldn't happen even if they lost. I'm hoping for Valve to have to pay a shitload of money to BT for this. Valve have been complacent for far too long, they're raking in money from CS:GO, DOTA, the marketplace and the store. They don't even have to innovate, they've struck gold and now just want to sit on it.

[QUOTE=MissZoey;50984602]I'm not hoping for Steam to go down, which wouldn't happen even if they lost. I'm hoping for Valve to have to pay a shitload of money to BT for this. Valve have been complacent for far too long, they're raking in money from CS:GO, DOTA, the marketplace and the store. They don't even have to innovate, they've struck gold and now just want to sit on it.[/QUOTE] First thats total bullshit because they're doing tons of shit with VR and they're working on new games (you dont spend years making a new engine to not do anything, dont get me fucking started on the dozen or so leaks from the past year alone) so thats INCREDIBLY stupid on one level. Second, if they lost, EVERYONE would be fucked, because the patents are so fucking vague you could kiss any form of instant messaging or digital marketplaces goodbye. That is, objectively, a fucking shit idea. [editline]1st September 2016[/editline] Like what the fuck even. They havent done Half-Life 3 yet and now they deserve to be sued? Christ my dude what the heck.

[QUOTE=MissZoey;50984602]I'm not hoping for Steam to go down, which wouldn't happen even if they lost. I'm hoping for Valve to have to pay a shitload of money to BT for this. Valve have been complacent for far too long, they're raking in money from CS:GO, DOTA, the marketplace and the store. They don't even have to innovate, they've struck gold and now just want to sit on it.[/QUOTE] BT is alot more unethical then Valve for crying out loud and not to mention that the precedent this could set, alot of companies would get fucked by this and not only Valve. and Valve not innovating? What the actual fuck? Haven't you seen the stuff they are doing with VR??? How is that NOT innovating? Come the fuck on.

[QUOTE=Valiantttt;50984741]BT is alot more unethical then Valve for crying out loud and not to mention that the precedent this could set, alot of companies would get fucked by this and not only Valve. and Valve not innovating? What the actual fuck? Haven't you seen the stuff they are doing with VR??? How is that NOT innovating? Come the fuck on.[/QUOTE] Its not this one specific game we know they're working on that hasnt come out yet so they've done literally nothing and should be sued into oblivion so they have to release it so they dont go under, dont you understand?

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50984701]First thats total bullshit because they're doing tons of shit with VR and they're working on new games (you dont spend years making a new engine to not do anything, dont get me fucking started on the dozen or so leaks from the past year alone) so thats INCREDIBLY stupid on one level. Second, if they lost, EVERYONE would be fucked, because the patents are so fucking vague you could kiss any form of instant messaging or digital marketplaces goodbye. That is, objectively, a fucking shit idea. [editline]1st September 2016[/editline] Like what the fuck even. They havent done Half-Life 3 yet and now they deserve to be sued? Christ my dude what the heck.[/QUOTE] It's been four years since any sizable game has come out, you can say that's "not a long time", but it is. There have been countless leaks over the past few years yet nothing has happened. I'll believe that they are making another game when they announce it. They're doing stuff with VR, yeah, that's all nice, but nothing they've done has helped bring down the cost of what is arguably a niche technology that very few can access. The vive is more expensive than many desktops alone. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go after everyone, the technologies seem quite specific to me. I'm pretty sure that the descriptions given to us will just be vague and that there's more intricacies in the actual patent.

[QUOTE=MissZoey;50984977]It's been four years since any sizable game has come out, you can say that's "not a long time", but it is.[/QUOTE] Oh bullshit. Just because DOTA 2 or CS:GO arent your kind of games doesnt mean they dont count, get out of here with that horse shit. [QUOTE=MissZoey;50984977]There have been countless leaks over the past few years yet nothing has happened. I'll believe that they are making another game when they announce it.[/QUOTE] Valve. The company notorious for taking their time, taking their time? WELL GOLLY HOW ABOUT THAT. Also you're forgetting they've been working on a brand new engine at the same time, which presumably these two new games are for, so unless you want buggy unfinished pieces of shit on a half broken engine, i'd recommend waiting. [QUOTE=MissZoey;50984977]They're doing stuff with VR, yeah, that's all nice, but nothing they've done has helped bring down the cost of what is arguably a niche technology that very few can access. The vive is more expensive than many desktops alone..[/QUOTE] Dude VR has JUST become even remotely a thing that consumers can get access to what the fuck. The INSTANT the FIRST FEW VR SETS get released and you're already going "they're not making it cheaper so it doesnt count." [QUOTE=MissZoey;50984977]I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go after everyone, the technologies seem quite specific to me. I'm pretty sure that the descriptions given to us will just be vague and that there's more intricacies in the actual patent.[/QUOTE] Okay thats just delusional. Like, NOBODY but Valve does: [quote= IN REFERENCE TO FRIEND CHATS] a method for delivering messages to “an intended audience in a reliable and predictable manner. Messages are stored as files at a server for retrieval by the intended clients. Each client transmits requests for messages to the server at automatic and periodic intervals.”[/quote] [quote=IN REFERENCE TO THE STEAM STORE]customers being provided with content originating from multiple subscription services through a single portal and being able to retrieve that which they have rights to access[/quote] Did you proofread any of this post at all?

[QUOTE=MissZoey;50984977]It's been four years since any sizable game has come out, you can say that's "not a long time", but it is. There have been countless leaks over the past few years yet nothing has happened. I'll believe that they are making another game when they announce it. They're doing stuff with VR, yeah, that's all nice, but nothing they've done has helped bring down the cost of what is arguably a niche technology that very few can access. The vive is more expensive than many desktops alone. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go after everyone, the technologies seem quite specific to me. I'm pretty sure that the descriptions given to us will just be vague and that there's more intricacies in the actual patent.[/QUOTE] Valve doesn't want to make games anymore (or at least games that make relatively little in profits, e.g. singleplayer games), and that sucks for us Half-Life fans, but it really has literally no bearing on whether they deserve to be sued or not. Oh, and by the way, Valve created/co-created OpenVR. It's an open source compatibility layer that lets VR games be played by theoretically any VR headset. Meaning when somebody other than HTC wants to take a crack at a VR headset, they don't have to go through all the bullshit of building a compatible software library - all the SteamVR games will already be compatible. This will make it easier for manufacturers to get into the VR market, and will eventually bring the cost way down as more manufacturers start competing. Also note how the lack of software patents here has created an overall better environment for consumers in the long run. P.S. you can actually use a Google Cardboard with SteamVR games if you set it up. It'd be kinda sucky compared to a real headset, but I'd call $5 + the phone you already have a pretty cheap entry into VR.

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;50985045]Valve doesn't want to make games anymore (or at least games that make relatively little in profits, so single player games), and that sucks for us Half-Life fans, but it really has literally no bearing on whether they deserve to be sued or not.[/QUOTE] Please do not start this.

I think the big issue here is that valve haven't said ANYTHING to BT, not even a [I]"HAHAHAHAHA Fuck off...." [/I] Regardless of BT having a legitimate claim, valve refusal to respond or communicate AT ALL is pretty big issue. It's not like valve even disputed BT's claims which is why they escalated it to court AFIK. I bet this could've all been resolved with a "Actually if you see here we don't infringe on your patent at all." Imagine if you were called up for court for a crime you didn't commit and you have evidence proving you didn't commit it and you don't bother to show for your court hearing it's going to look fucking bad.

[QUOTE=MissZoey;50984977]It's been four years since any sizable game has come out, you can say that's "not a long time", but it is. There have been countless leaks over the past few years yet nothing has happened. I'll believe that they are making another game when they announce it. They're doing stuff with VR, yeah, that's all nice, but nothing they've done has helped bring down the cost of what is arguably a niche technology that very few can access. The vive is more expensive than many desktops alone. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go after everyone, the technologies seem quite specific to me. I'm pretty sure that the descriptions given to us will just be vague and that there's more intricacies in the actual patent.[/QUOTE] Are you dense? It's like you didn't actually read the patents and what they were suing them over, and are just being a pissed off Half-Life fanboy who thinks the Valve losing a ton of money to some patent trolling ISP will teach them to make games. You realize how delusional that is? A company isn't making games I like anymore, so they should lose a meaningless lawsuit so they'll make games I like? [editline]1st September 2016[/editline] Take money from a company = more games

[QUOTE=ghghop;50985679]Are you dense? It's like you didn't actually read the patents and what they were suing them over, and are just being a pissed off Half-Life fanboy who thinks the Valve losing a ton of money to some patent trolling ISP will teach them to make games. You realize how delusional that is? A company isn't making games I like anymore, so they should lose a meaningless lawsuit so they'll make games I like? [editline]1st September 2016[/editline] Take money from a company = more games[/QUOTE] I genuinely don't care about Half-Life 3. I'd be happy if they said "no it's not happening ever go away". What I care about is a company with an abysmal record in customer services and communications, to the extent they don't reply to claims of patent infringement. They continue to update games I like and I still enjoy them, so your "A company isn't making games I like anymore" point is redundant, and I'd be happy if they used the money to improve their customer services. They aren't exactly a model company, and I hope that maybe losing a case as serious as this would make them realize that they've kind of been fucking over customers for a while with their silence and their awful support service. Furthermore, I don't believe this is patent trolling, if they were patent trolls they'd go all out with suing from the start, instead BT repeatedly attempted to contact Valve who didn't even give them a reply. Just because they are suing a company you like doesn't make them a patent troll. They're a well-established company with rights to protect their assets. I've been looking at the filing, and it seems to be rather specific ways of gathering the information, rather than just a general, "this shows that u own this and u can access it" [url]https://search.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/12085257[/url]

[QUOTE=thisguy123;50985572]I think the big issue here is that valve haven't said ANYTHING to BT, not even a [I]"HAHAHAHAHA Fuck off...." [/I] Regardless of BT having a legitimate claim, valve refusal to respond or communicate AT ALL is pretty big issue. It's not like valve even disputed BT's claims which is why they escalated it to court AFIK. I bet this could've all been resolved with a "Actually if you see here we don't infringe on your patent at all." Imagine if you were called up for court for a crime you didn't commit and you have evidence proving you didn't commit it and you don't bother to show for your court hearing it's going to look fucking bad.[/QUOTE]Until someone makes an official, legal challenge, they don't have to respond at all. You can just ignore them day in and day out because they have no legal authority. We don't even know the extent of the communications BT tried. [editline]1st September 2016[/editline] I have to reiterate this from time to time, but having to deal with massive financial loss does not normally make companies more innovative or customer friendly or anything. It makes them have to play things a lot safer and more secure to insure they can still actually make money. So having to pay out for a dumbass lawsuit isn't actually going to do the shit you think it will.

[QUOTE=MissZoey;50985770] What I care about is a company with an abysmal record in customer services and communications, to the extent they don't reply to claims of patent infringement.[/QUOTE] Define "services", communications you may have a point, but service wise? And like Doc said, they have NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to acknowledge their bullshit shitflinging until they actually move towards some kind of litigation. None. Why would they? Its fucking insane. [QUOTE=MissZoey;50985770] They continue to update games I like and I still enjoy them, so your "A company isn't making games I like anymore" point is redundant, and I'd be happy if they used the money to improve their customer services. They aren't exactly a model company, and I hope that maybe losing a case as serious as this would make them realize that they've kind of been fucking over customers for a while with their silence and their awful support service. [/QUOTE] "I hope the company gets fucked and cripples the entire PC Market and potentially the budding VR Market so i can be satisfied with my petty vendetta" holy smokes my friend. They're slow when it comes to answering support shit but like, god damn dude, thats going from 0 to 60 in the worst way. [QUOTE=MissZoey;50985770] Furthermore, I don't believe this is patent trolling, if they were patent trolls they'd go all out with suing from the start, instead BT repeatedly attempted to contact Valve who didn't even give them a reply. Just because they are suing a company you like doesn't make them a patent troll. They're a well-established company with rights to protect their assets.[/QUOTE] Yes because patenting CHAT AND DISTRIBUTION SERVICES is perfectly acceptable. Once more, if they won, EVERYONE would be fucked. E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E. You dont understand how this shit works, if someone wins, it sets a precedent for future lawsuits. What was listed as why they're suing is so vague and broad they could sue your fucking ass, or someone else could if they had a similar idea in their head. Fucking, think this through, friend, this is crazy. Why do you hate Valve so much? [editline]1st September 2016[/editline] [quote= IN REFERENCE TO FRIEND CHATS] a method for delivering messages to “an intended audience in a reliable and predictable manner. Messages are stored as files at a server for retrieval by the intended clients. Each client transmits requests for messages to the server at automatic and periodic intervals.”[/quote] [quote=IN REFERENCE TO THE STEAM STORE]customers being provided with content originating from multiple subscription services through a single portal and being able to retrieve that which they have rights to access[/quote] Seriously, think about this for a second, think of all the companies and services this could apply to.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50985823]Until someone makes an official, legal challenge, they don't have to respond at all. You can just ignore them day in and day out because they have no legal authority. We don't even know the extent of the communications BT tried. [editline]1st September 2016[/editline] I have to reiterate this from time to time, but having to deal with massive financial loss does not normally make companies more innovative or customer friendly or anything. It makes them have to play things a lot safer and more secure to insure they can still actually make money. So having to pay out for a dumbass lawsuit isn't actually going to do the shit you think it will.[/QUOTE] Now I will say I take neither side, if BT's claim is legit then valve better start grovelling, if Valve is in the right then BT can fuck off. In the end I feel this whole shabang could have been avoided if valve opened a dialogue with BT. Now BOTH sides have to go though lengthy and expensive legal proceedings.

Well BT also tried to sue an american ISP because they claimed they [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2212203.stm"]invented hyperlinks[/URL]. So i'm sure this'll come of nothing, BT just being patent trolls

[QUOTE=thisguy123;50986044]Now I will say I take neither side, if BT's claim is legit then valve better start grovelling, if Valve is in the right then BT can fuck off. In the end I feel this whole shabang could have been avoided if valve opened a dialogue with BT. Now BOTH sides have to go though lengthy and expensive legal proceedings.[/QUOTE] You better hope BT gets told to fuck off if you like netflix, the idea of digital distribution of games, streaming sites like Twitch or Hitbox and [i]chat clients like skype and discord[/i]. If I were Valve, I would've ignored them or told them to fuck off as well. Did you read their patents? They're fucking ridiculous and would force dozens of software developers to pay them royalties on ideas that aren't nearly unique enough to be attributed directly to them. Even in 1997 you probably could've found prior art for [i]at least[/i] the chat one.