GOP candidates pledge to vote for the man they call a liar, con man and fraud — his name is #NeverTr - Polidicks

[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;49866566]So voting on emotion.[/QUOTE] How the fuck did you come to that conclusion?

[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;49867125]I'm not voting for Hillary if she wins the nomination because I don't believe that being "liberal" makes her a lesser of two evils in any way. I think she has the potential to fuck this country just as bad as Trump. Given her record I don't expect her to stuck by a single word she's said, she'll turn and sell us all in an instant.[/QUOTE] Consider this, She is the only candidate besides bernie that makes sense. if you thought leaking classified intel was bad, just wait till you see what ted cruz, trumpsta and rubio are capable of (Kasich is a good guy) they'd sooner eviserate you than give up their corporate overlords. meanwhile clinton is the only moderate candidate who you can possibly trust, better her than a terrible leader.

I was listening to CPAC today on CSPAN. There is a lot of talk over a brokered deal, especially from the status quo 90s republican, John Kasich. I think Kasich, Cruz, and Rubio are going to shift their strategy to create a split vote with nobody winning the majority, leading to a brokered deal in which everyone but trump gets to make their case to RNC leadership why they can unify the party and also defeat Clinton. Kasich, in his talk with Sean Hannity alluded to this, but refused to talk any specifics, though it was heavily implied that he knew he couldn't win the popular vote but hoped to convince party leadership that he's the most electable candidate.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49867257]How the fuck did you come to that conclusion?[/QUOTE] You're choosing to vote on principle. That's not a rational position, it's an emotional one. You aren't voting based on the expected outcome of your vote, but instead you're voting based on what you feel is right in your gut. I'm still not sure if I would vote Trump or Hillary, but my decision is strategic and based on expected outcome. Voting Trump for me, would be a high-risk gamble that Trump doesn't do too much damage in 4 years, that Congress and the people block him on the crazy shit, and that the Democratic Party realizes they fucked up, and unfucks themselves 4 years from now. Voting Hillary is a safer bet that things mostly continue to deteriorate at the current rate, that Hillary doesn't somehow castrate the growing progressive movement, and that Hillary doesn't significantly increase the rate of deterioration and doesn't create significantly higher barriers to progress. Neither one is an emotional vote based on 'principles'.

[QUOTE=Jiyoon;49867453]I was listening to CPAC today on CSPAN. There is a lot of talk over a brokered deal, especially from the status quo 90s republican, John Kasich. I think Kasich, Cruz, and Rubio are going to shift their strategy to create a split vote with nobody winning the majority, leading to a brokered deal in which everyone but trump gets to make their case to RNC leadership why they can unify the party and also defeat Clinton. Kasich, in his talk with Sean Hannity alluded to this, but refused to talk any specifics, though it was heavily implied that he knew he couldn't win the popular vote but hoped to convince party leadership that he's the most electable candidate.[/QUOTE] Honestly i'd be down to vote for Kasich over hillary. he's the most moderate republican i've seen since the 1980's

[QUOTE=Kybalt;49867529]You're choosing to vote on principle. That's not a rational position. You should vote based on expected outcome. I'm still not sure if I would vote Trump or Hillary, but my decision is strategic and based on expected outcome. Voting Trump for me, would be a high-risk gamble that Trump doesn't do too much damage in 4 years, that Congress and the people block him on the crazy shit, and that the Democratic Party realizes they fucked up, and unfucks themselves 4 years from now. Voting Hillary is a safer bet that things mostly continue to deteriorate at the current rate, that Hillary doesn't somehow castrate the growing progressive movement, and that Hillary doesn't significantly increase the rate of deterioration and doesn't create significantly higher barriers to progress. Neither one is an emotional vote based on 'principles'.[/QUOTE] Hillary would be 8 more years of Obama, which I'm fine with; Idk what you mean by "deteriorate at the current rate" [editline]4th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;49867541]Honestly i'd be down to vote for Kasich over hillary. he's the most moderate republican i've seen since the 1980's[/QUOTE] I would also, and I'm a Bernie supporter. I think that if it came down to Trump v. Hillary I'd easily choose Hillary, but Hillary v. Kasich would be a hard decision for me.

[QUOTE=Jiyoon;49867544]Hillary would be 8 more years of Obama, which I'm fine with; Idk what you mean by "deteriorate at the current rate"[/QUOTE] Growing income inequality, shitty trade deals, worse than Obama foreign policy, no attempt to prevent the economy from collapsing.

[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;49865850]A bit sad that people would put their pride over the well-being.[/QUOTE] if everyone always thought like this we would stay stuck in a two party system until the end of time (not saying we wont, because everyone DOES think like this.)

[QUOTE=Kybalt;49867554]Growing income inequality, shitty trade deals, worse than Obama foreign policy, no attempt to prevent the economy from collapsing.[/QUOTE] No attempt to prevent the economy from collapsing? The economy collapsed. The economy is now un-collapsed. Have you lived in this country for the last 8 years? [editline]4th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=FingerSpazem;49867564]if everyone always thought like this we would stay stuck in a two party system until the end of time (not saying we wont, because everyone DOES think like this.)[/QUOTE] The two party system is mathematical guaranteed by game theory in fptp; a third party candidate cannot with our current system. We would need constitutional reform.

thing I've never got about people voting for Trump or Clinton is that, these people have continuously lied and still lie today, why would you want to give them more power in who is going to be president? Like imagine having two doors and two birds, if one door ALWAYS leads to heaven and the other door ALWAYS leads to hell, one bird ALWAYS lies and the other bird ALWAYS tells the truth, each bird is telling you what door to go through. What bird do you listen too? You always do the opposite of the one who is lying, how do we know what one is lying by looking into the past and seeing is this what this person really believes? If no, don't fucking listen to them. If yes, listen to them but always make sure YOU believe its the right thing as well don't do it just because you're told to do it. THINK FOR YOUR SELF. PLEASE I can't believe that people HAVE to be told to think for themselves, the fucking irony.

[QUOTE=Lollipoopdeck;49867679]thing I've never got about people voting for Trump or Clinton is that, these people have continuously lied and still lie today, why would you want to give them more power in who is going to be president? Like imagine having two doors and two birds, if one door ALWAYS leads to heaven and the other door ALWAYS leads to hell, one bird ALWAYS lies and the other bird ALWAYS tells the truth, each bird is telling you what door to go through. What bird do you listen too? You always do the opposite of the one who is lying, how do we know what one is lying by looking into the past and seeing is this what this person really believes? If no, don't fucking listen to them. If yes, listen to them but always make sure YOU believe its the right thing as well don't do it just because you're told to do it. THINK FOR YOUR SELF. PLEASE I can't believe that people HAVE to be told to think for themselves, the fucking irony.[/QUOTE] Most people are jaded by politics; they don't expect anything more. Most people vote for the lesser of all evils

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49865760]Still voting third party because I vote on principle, not pragmatism.[/QUOTE] And in 10 years no one will remember or care that Bernie lost.

[QUOTE=catbarf;49865751]I can't bring myself to endorse someone who refuses to own up to committing a crime that, if I did it, would have landed me 10+ years in prison. She may be a lesser evil, but as far as I'm concerned Sanders has shown that you can be a viable candidate without being an 'evil' at all, and that makes it a lot harder to support her just on the basis that she's not Trump.[/QUOTE] Which is?

[QUOTE=Starpluck;49865794]Obama was bought by Wall Street, Goldman Sachs; you name it. But no one likes to acknowledge this little secret; we cover it up in order to invoke more onslaughts against Clinton. [/QUOTE] Was anyone praising Obama? He's done a lot of shit stuff too (though some good things as well). Some people say Hillary will be just another Obama; we don't need another Obama, we need someone who is going to fix the ever worsening problems in this country. Also, to my knowledge, he hasn't committed a serious criminal action at least.

The point is — we'd rather have another Obama, as docile as he may be, then a right-wing president.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;49867529]You're choosing to vote on principle. That's not a rational position, it's an emotional one. You aren't voting based on the expected outcome of your vote, but instead you're voting based on what you feel is right in your gut. I'm still not sure if I would vote Trump or Hillary, but my decision is strategic and based on expected outcome. Voting Trump for me, would be a high-risk gamble that Trump doesn't do too much damage in 4 years, that Congress and the people block him on the crazy shit, and that the Democratic Party realizes they fucked up, and unfucks themselves 4 years from now. Voting Hillary is a safer bet that things mostly continue to deteriorate at the current rate, that Hillary doesn't somehow castrate the growing progressive movement, and that Hillary doesn't significantly increase the rate of deterioration and doesn't create significantly higher barriers to progress. Neither one is an emotional vote based on 'principles'.[/QUOTE] I'm voting for the candidate I want in office based on the policies of the candidates, not "what my gut feels". What's the point of me voting at all if I merely am to vote for the expected outcome? [editline]4th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=DaMastez;49868166]Was anyone praising Obama? He's done a lot of shit stuff too (though some good things as well). Some people say Hillary will be just another Obama; we don't need another Obama, we need someone who is going to fix the ever worsening problems in this country. Also, to my knowledge, he hasn't committed a serious criminal action at least.[/QUOTE] Obama has done a good job on foreign policy. Not a great job, but a good one. He pulled us out of Iraq and Afghanistan, he opened up to Iran and Cuba, and he hasn't sent Americans to their deaths in Syria.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49868261] Obama has done a good job on foreign policy. Not a great job, but a good one. He pulled us out of Iraq and Afghanistan, he opened up to Iran and Cuba, and he hasn't sent Americans to their deaths in Syria.[/QUOTE] Pulling us out was a massive mistake though; we needed to stay in those countries and provide stability and support rebuilding. Of course, it isn't his fault, the public can't stomach the long term effort necessary for the short-term bloodlust they were all calling for before. His actions with Cuba, and especially Iran, though were great strides.

I don't understand why you guys think that voting 3rd party is so "unproductive to society". This is exactly the mentality as to why the two-party fiasco thrives in the United States. Being forced to pick one of two options under the premise of "lesser of two evils", especially when you think both are utter shit, is fucking retarded. Many people acknowledge that both the GOP and the Dems are fucked up and need reform but nobody ever wants do anything about it. I'm sorry but nobody should be put into a position where they have to vote for someone they don't agree with. I tend to always vote 3rd party because I can at least agree with them on their ideals.

[QUOTE=DaMastez;49868355]Pulling us out was a massive mistake though; we needed to stay in those countries and provide stability and support rebuilding. Of course, it isn't his fault, the public can't stomach the long term effort necessary for the short-term bloodlust they were all calling for before. His actions with Cuba, and especially Iran, though were great strides.[/QUOTE] Iraq and Afghanistan [I]wanted[/I] us out. Enough Americans had died over there in a country most of the US nor Iraq itself wanted standing on those sands. [editline]4th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Tsyolin;49868386]I don't understand why you guys think that voting 3rd party is so "unproductive to society". This is exactly the mentality as to why the two-party fiasco thrives in the United States. Being forced to pick one of two options under the premise of "lesser of two evils", especially when you think both are utter shit, is fucking retarded. Many people acknowledge that both the GOP and the Dems are fucked up and need reform but nobody ever wants do anything about it. I'm sorry but nobody should be put into a position where they have to vote for someone they don't agree with. I tend to always vote 3rd party because I can at least agree with them on their ideals.[/QUOTE] It's basically "the game is rigged so I'll just hope the game will fix itself one day".

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49868857]It's basically "the game is rigged so I'll just hope the game will fix itself one day".[/QUOTE] Two parties are the logical end result of our political system. You are never going to "fix" the political system by voting for a third party because the people who will actually end up getting their candidates elected will always be the people sticking to the two party system. It is the winning strategy. The idea that this problem is only the result of people "not thinking it can change" is just naive, surely you can see that?

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49868934]Two parties are the logical end result of our political system. You are never going to "fix" the political system by voting for a third party because the people who will actually end up getting their candidates elected will always be the people sticking to the two party system. It is the winning strategy. The idea that this problem is only the result of people "not thinking it can change" is just naive, surely you can see that?[/QUOTE] Obviously you can't just sit on your ass and wait. If it's going to get fixed, it has to be changed and it has to start with serious political reform. Not by sitting and voting the same as always for the candidate you hate least more than the candidate you like most.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49868953]Obviously you can't just sit on your ass and wait. If it's going to get fixed, it has to be changed and it has to start with serious political reform. Not by sitting and voting the same as always for the candidate you hate least more than the candidate you like most.[/QUOTE] If you have a broken wall, smashing your head into it repeatedly isn't better than standing around idly just because it's "doing something". Stupid actions aren't any better than inaction. I mean, if your end goal is "I want stupid people to ruin the country", then by all means, well played.

what i find most shocking about this thread is the automatic assumption that the right is evil

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;49869225]what i find most shocking about this thread is the automatic assumption that the right is evil[/QUOTE] Evil is perhaps the wrong word, but that view has come about because they pander to the people who don't understand concepts like separation of church and state, and those who think science is a fraud (e.g. using a snowball as proof that climate change is a myth). They also constantly want to cut safety nets for the country's poorest people.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49868990]If you have a broken wall, smashing your head into it repeatedly isn't better than standing around idly just because it's "doing something". Stupid actions aren't any better than inaction. I mean, if your end goal is "I want stupid people to ruin the country", then by all means, well played.[/QUOTE] What a whole lot of nothing of a post. Did I give a detailed plan? No, I didn't, so please explain how wanting political reform - which is all I said - is "a stupid idea"?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49869653]What a whole lot of nothing of a post. Did I give a detailed plan? No, I didn't, so please explain how wanting political reform - which is all I said - is "a stupid idea"?[/QUOTE] "Wanting" anything without a realistic plan to get there is meaningless at best and destructive at worst.

I'm only a nearly broke, cynical, college student, there's not much short of running for office myself, or using violence, that will change political corruption. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who wins. What matters is that you don't willingly sell your values for a sticker that says "I Voted".

[QUOTE=adamsz;49869687]At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who wins.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but this is just total BS.

[QUOTE=sgman91;49869672]"Wanting" anything without a realistic plan to get there is meaningless at best and destructive at worst.[/QUOTE] Okay, where did I mention an unrealistic plan? Because as I reread my posts, I don't see [I]any[/I] plan, just people putting words in my mouth.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49870030]Okay, where did I mention an unrealistic plan? Because as I reread my posts, I don't see [I]any[/I] plan, just people putting words in my mouth.[/QUOTE] Perhaps I was mistaken, but what I gathered was that your plan for achieving political reform is to vote for a third party candidate who will never even conceivably come anywhere near being elected. Which practically isn't going to accomplish anything at all because it's a vain effort in the current system.