Copenhagen bars harassed by locals trying to enforce Sharia law - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;50319170] The Muslim Brotherhood invented the word deliberately to shield criticism of Islam. Their strategy has worked flawlessly so far. We need to throw away the word "Islamophobia" and start using "anti-Muslim bigotry". There is nothing wrong with hating/fearing Islam. But bigotry needs to be called out.[/QUOTE] This might be the most batshit insane thing I've ever read from one of the "Muslim critics". Dude. There is everything wrong with hating ANY group of people, no matter what. You can detest, dislike, disagree or loathe them but hate is always wrong.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50320192]Before he comes and says he dislikes Islam and not the Muslims- You guys have to understand what a religion is. A religion is, may not be intuitive to you non-religious folk but, not a concrete set of rules. Holy scripture, prophets word, all that bullshit, it is all what one makes of it. When you criticize Bible you get heaps of people saying "It is meant as an allegory!", what they mean is what I mean about Islam. Religions are not ideologies. Theyy dont have a standard. Islam is what Muslims think it is. Christianity is what Christians make of it. When you say you dont like Islam, what you actually should say is the eneral mindset of the Muslim population. Because that is what "Islam" is. Salafism, on the other hand, is a largely political "Interpretation" of Islam and is closest Islam can get to an ideology. Criticiying Salafism, neo-Ottomanism etc. is completely fine. When you say I dislike ISlam you rightfully come across as a bigot, because there is no singular Islam entity so your statement defaults to "Beliefs and mindset of Muslims in general" which is a group of 1.6 billion people.[/QUOTE] What fucking nonsense, you've obviously never actually read a holy text in any real length or depth. I can assure you those holy texts were written to be taken deadly seriously and without question, the people who tell themselves it's all what you make of it are just lying to themselves, it's ridiculous apologetics that sugarcoats the truth. The bible and quran are both very clear on their standards and rules and there isn't much room for interpretation.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50320648]Do you seriously think religious people take Bible or Quran dead seriously? Do you see homosexuals getting stoned in Italy, or apostates murdered in Turkey? Books cant enforce their "seriousness" since they are inanimate objects. Dead trees with ink on them, obviously it is what people make of them that matters. Glad to see 4 billion people lying to themselves though.[/QUOTE] Well they're getting stoned in many Arab countries, so yes clearly people do take them seriously, because guess what thats how those books were supposed to be taken. The reason we don't see it Europe any more is because religious belief has declined massively, this however hasn't happened to the same degree in most Islamic countries. You're naive if you think they weren't supposed to be taken seriously.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50320648]Do you seriously think religious people take Bible or Quran dead seriously? Do you see homosexuals getting stoned in Italy, or apostates murdered in Turkey? Books cant enforce their "seriousness" since they are inanimate objects. Dead trees with ink on them, obviously it is what people make of them that matters. Glad to see 4 billion people lying to themselves though.[/QUOTE] Thats not at all what he said. He said the books were written to be interpreted that way. He didn't say people actually follow them like that though.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50320533]What fucking nonsense, you've obviously never actually read a holy text in any real length or depth. I can assure you those holy texts were written to be taken deadly seriously and without question, the people who tell themselves it's all what you make of it are just lying to themselves, it's ridiculous apologetics that sugarcoats the truth. The bible and quran are both very clear on their standards and rules and there isn't much room for interpretation.[/QUOTE] I like how you are basically more extremist than most of the religious people about their religion. [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;50320661]Well they're getting stoned in many Arab countries, so yes clearly people do take them seriously, because guess what thats how those books were supposed to be taken. The reason we don't see it Europe any more is because religious belief has declined massively, this however hasn't happened to the same degree in most Islamic countries. You're naive if you think they weren't supposed to be taken seriously.[/QUOTE] The adjective is "Muslim", not "Islamic" [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Pantz Master;50320703]Thats not at all what he said. He said the books were written to be interpreted that way. He didn't say people actually follow them like that though.[/QUOTE] And he's saying most people aren't following them like that where is the problem

[QUOTE=Killuah;50320716]I like how you are basically more extremist than most of the religious people about their religion. [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] The adjective is "Muslim", not "Islamic" [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] And he's saying most people aren't following them like that where is the problem[/QUOTE] The adjective can be Muslim or Islamic, you can use either. I'm stating what the holy books say, which generally is quite extremist, just because some people don't listen to the holy books doesn't change that the foundation of those religions promoted terrible ideas and is largely responsible for extremist behavior.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50320836]Who cares for what purpose they were written more than a millenia ago? What matters is what they are today.[/QUOTE] Their religion is based on what was written millennia ago, without the Quran what basis does Islam even have? So of course it matters today, that's the big problem, people are deriving their morals and lifestyles from a book written millennia ago. You clearly don't actually understand religion if this is how you think it works.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50320857]YOU are naive if you think Islam takes main blame for the stoning of people and not the dominant Mindset that has been put there by thousands of years of poverty, illiteracy and backwardness. Islam is neutral. What Arabs do with it is not my concern, and not Islams fault. Islam is an object. I mean, it is prety simple. If some Muslims stone people and some dont, you gotta see other factors determine whether they will stone people or not and not Islam. Scientific Method 101.[/QUOTE] No Islam totally takes blame for those stonings because it is literally written in their defining holy book that sinners are to be stoned. Their holy book, which their religion is based on, is what led to those stonings. You cannot separate the two without some absolutely ridiculous mental gymnastics. The Quran essentially defines Islam much like how the Bible defines Christianity, the two cannot be separated like that

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50320885]I never said Kuran doesnt matter. I said the purpose that scriber had when he was writing that down in 610 AD doesnt matter. People dont take Kuran literally, and the ones that do are a minority. That is a fact. That is observable reality. Id say the one among us who is able to understand religion is the one that has facts besides him.[/QUOTE] Yes it does matter, when the Quran says to stone gay people, that is what causes Muslim groups to stone gay people. It is a result of the Qurans message the moral standards and instruction that it happened. To try and say it isn't is utterly ridiculous, it's like trying to argue that the communist manifesto can be interpreted as pro capitalism, the Quran has clear interpretation very unlike the bible which is why Islam doesn't have as many splinter groups.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50320932]We are talking about different things. To put the blame on the stonings, you are comparing the current situation with an alternate reality where Islam doesnt exist. We cannot drive any conclusions from here because a world without Islam is nigh impossible to reasonably speculate. I am trying to see, and make you see, why some Muslims stone homosexuals while others dont. Why some Christians hang them while others dont. The main reason clearly is not the religion since practicing people can be successfully not-homophobic. Dream about a world without religion as you like, but it is not productive, it doesnt bring solutions to the table and it makes you oversee actual reasons of these events.[/QUOTE] We can totally draw conclusions, the Quran and other Islamic texts clearly condemn homosexuals, as a result violence is committed against them. It very much plays a part and saying otherwise is silly, same as trying to say that the bibles anti homosexuality stance isn't a largely important reason for America's reluctance when it comes to gay rights.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50320955]Kuran is significantly clearer than Bible? Islam doesnt have splinter groups?? I just realized I am wasting my time in a terrible manner while waiting for Windows Update. I should just go watch some shit instead.[/QUOTE] It has less splinter groups due to its clearer interpretation, which is why you only have two major factions in Islam with the Sunni and Shia groups, the rest of the sub groups generally don't differ much, unlike Christianity where you have a large variety of different interpretations that actually have quite stark contrasts. The only person who's wasting their time here is me, since Islams culpability is obvious to anyone who isn't a blind apologist.

It never ceases to amaze me how people make statements about this religion while simultaneously knowing fuck all about it, claiming "The quran doesn't say that!!!!" or any other number of objectively fucking false facts.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50320765]The adjective can be Muslim or Islamic, you can use either. I'm stating what the holy books say, which generally is quite extremist, just because some people don't listen to the holy books doesn't change that the foundation of those religions promoted terrible ideas and is largely responsible for extremist behavior.[/QUOTE] Ok but do you deny that people do interpret stuff? [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;50320967]It has less splinter groups due to its clearer interpretation[/quote] [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Islam_branches_and_schools.svg/1032px-Islam_branches_and_schools.svg.png[/img] [quote]which is why you only have two major factions in Islam with the Sunni and Shia groups, the rest of the sub groups generally don't differ much, unlike Christianity where you have a large variety of different interpretations that actually have quite stark contrasts. The only person who's wasting their time here is me, since Islams culpability is obvious to anyone who isn't a blind apologist.[/QUOTE] If only I knew some other religion with two major groups.

[QUOTE=Killuah;50321012]Ok but do you deny that people do interpret stuff?[/QUOTE] Yes but it's usually only through mental gymnastics, like for example in the bible it's very clear on its stance on homosexuality so anyone saying its okay with it is essentially lying, same goes for islam [QUOTE=Killuah;50321012] [IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Islam_branches_and_schools.svg/1032px-Islam_branches_and_schools.svg.png[/IMG] If only I knew some other religion with two major groups.[/QUOTE] When you compare that to Christianity that is an absolutely tiny amount of splinter groups, Islam is like I said, generally rather homogeneous.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50321029]They do but it takes silly mental gymnastics, the people that do are usually not particularly religious and just go along with it for whatever reasons. Despite the fact that people do try to for example argue the bible isn't against homosexuality, looking at the actual quotes relating to it makes it very obvious that it is against homosexuality, anyone saying otherwise are essentially lying, same goes for Islam.[/QUOTE] Again, you are taking more extremist and purist views than most religious people. [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;50321029]When you compare that to Christianity that is an absolutely tiny amount of splinter groups, Islam is like I said, generally rather homogeneous.[/QUOTE] If only I knew some other religion with two major groups. [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] Hint: [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Christianity_Branches.svg/2000px-Christianity_Branches.svg.png[/img]

[QUOTE=Killuah;50321038]Again, you are taking more extremist and purist views than most religious people. [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] If only I knew some other religion with two major groups.[/QUOTE] I'm not taking a more extremist view, this is how most truly religious people will see it. This doesn't include the sort of person who just says they're Catholic and then doesn't follow any of the rules because realistically those people aren't really religious.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50321055]this is how most truly religious people will see it.[/QUOTE] Guess who's thinking that too. Hint: [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/AQMI_Flag_asymmetric.svg/2000px-AQMI_Flag_asymmetric.svg.png[/t]

[QUOTE=Killuah;50321038] [IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Christianity_Branches.svg/2000px-Christianity_Branches.svg.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] That graph is only counting the major groups and misses thousands of the minor sub groups off, which kind of proves my point that compared to islam, christianity is much more splintered. [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Killuah;50321066]Guess who's thinking that too. Hint: [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/AQMI_Flag_asymmetric.svg/2000px-AQMI_Flag_asymmetric.svg.png[/t][/QUOTE] Which is why Islam, like most religion, is bad, as it directly results in groups like that when actually taken seriously.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50321069]That graph is only counting the major groups and misses thousands of the minor sub groups off, which kind of proves my point that compared to islam, christianity is much more splintered.[/QUOTE] How is that much more splintered How does that point not count for Islam? [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;50321069]That graph is only counting the major groups and misses thousands of the minor sub groups off, which kind of proves my point that compared to islam, christianity is much more splintered. [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] Which is why Islam, like most religion, is bad, as it directly results in groups like that when actually taken seriously.[/QUOTE] But it's literally YOUR AND ISIS' point?????

[QUOTE=Killuah;50321071]How is that much more splintered[/QUOTE] No I do, and as I pointed out, the ones in that graph are the major sections, many of which are vastly different. There are even more minor sections on top of those that also vary a lot.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50321086]No I do, and as I pointed out, the ones in that graph are the major sections, many of which are vastly different. There are even more minor sections on top of those that also vary a lot.[/QUOTE] How does that point not count for Christianity too?????

[QUOTE=Killuah;50321071] But it's literally YOUR AND ISIS' point?????[/QUOTE] Are you actually arguing that ISIS is the only Islamic extremist group in the world? Or the only group that takes the Qurans word as sacred? I can name a couple of literal god damn countries that take it similarly as seriously.

This is too contrived and abstract and I obviously won't change your mind, I only know that I'm much more afraid of lunatics like you with these kind of "pure Religion" and "pure holy scipture" views than the other 2 or 3 billion religious people who you are accusing of [quote]usually not particularly religious and just go along with it for whatever reasons. [/quote] Because that is literally the line of thinking that all terrorists and extremists take to excuse their actions and I hope you get happy and never in a situation where you really have to use this "they aren't really XXX and XXX" view to absolute yourself for doing something horrible. Good luck and good night.