Woman shot in the head after knocking on door and asking for help - Polidicks

[QUOTE=person11;42786340]Only in a gun culture would someone be more willing to shoot someone than call the cops. People in other countries trust cops to keep everyone safe, but here, most of us have fantasies about killing bad guys instead of needing cops. It's kinda dangerous, as we can see here.[/QUOTE] Actually In many cases where there is a real threat its the seconds that count, you can't count on police just arriving to save the day and that goes for anywhere, not just in America. Anybody who has fantasies of killing someone shouldn't have a firearm in the first place, labeling all gun owners as rampant killers waiting for someone to trespass into their homes is just wrong. That all being said in relation to this case, the person committed flat out murder on that poor woman. Who shoots someone knocking on your door looking for help? And for that matter who shoots someone running away? A pure nutjob.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;42786045]Guns enable bad people to very easily do bad things like what happened in the article. Don't even argue that.[/QUOTE] A gun is a tool like anything else

[QUOTE=Boaraes;42786325]This isn't a fucking gun thing. This is a human thing. You're all blaming the gun when it was the man who fucking killed her.[/QUOTE] Chances are, if the guy didn't have a shotgun, he wouldn't have used another method to kill her It's not as if he'd have chased her into his lawn and strangled her if he didn't have a shotgun to use; she's dead because he had a gun, and Michigan law states that he can shoot anyone he likes as long as he feels "honestly and reasonably threatened", which isn't exactly measurable in a court of law, he just has to FEEL that way I hate to use the cliche statement, but if he didn't have the gun, she'd still be alive

Tbh the fact that shit like this happening constantly isn't a wake-up call to Americans then I guess there isn't much we can do except wall you guys off

[QUOTE=i-am-teh-sex;42786402]This is a ridiculous counter argument Shovels enable people to easily crack someones skull open, should gardening be banned now too? A butter knife can easily go into someones neck with enough force, should steel be banned next? Guns don't have some mystical evil will over gun owners, there are just bad people in this world, yet it's pieces of machinery being blamed[/QUOTE] People don't murder people so readily with butter knifes and shovels. Guns at hand do have a direct influence over murder and suicide.

[QUOTE=i-am-teh-sex;42786402]This is a ridiculous counter argumentShovels enable people to easily crack someones skull open, should gardening be banned now too?A butter knife can easily go into someones neck with enough force, should steel be banned next?Guns don't have some mystical evil will over gun owners, there are just bad people in this world, yet it's pieces of machinery being blamed[/QUOTE] The difference being that to use said implements as weapons you need to be significantly closer, be relatively physically adept and it's much easier to defend against. You can outrun a guy wielding a shovel, you can't outrun a slug of lead going at supersonic speeds.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42786427]People don't murder people so readily with butter knifes and shovels. Guns at hand do have a direct influence over murder and suicide.[/QUOTE] Again, no they don't, guns are literally nothing more than pieces of moving metal, it's the people that influence these things

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42786427]People don't murder people so readily with butter knifes and shovels. Guns at hand do have a direct influence over murder and suicide.[/QUOTE] Which is why idiots like this guy shouldn't fucking have one.

[QUOTE=i-am-teh-sex;42786446]Again, no they don't, guns are literally nothing more than pieces of moving metal, it's the people that influence these things[/QUOTE] Which situation is more likely to end bad: Holding a gun or holding e.g. a shovel?

[QUOTE=i-am-teh-sex;42786446]Again, no they don't, guns are literally nothing more than pieces of moving metal, it's the people that influence these things[/QUOTE] Said absolutely no study ever on the matter. Did you know that simply owning this piece of moving metal can increase your likelihood of suicide of up 2-9 times the normal rate depending on how easy your access to it is? If its so inert why does it have this influence? There have been loads of studies on this. You're just in denial.

[QUOTE=i-am-teh-sex;42786402]This is a ridiculous counter argument Shovels enable people to easily crack someones skull open, should gardening be banned now too? A butter knife can easily go into someones neck with enough force, should steel be banned next? Guns don't have some mystical evil will over gun owners, there are just bad people in this world, yet it's pieces of machinery being blamed[/QUOTE] If guns were banned, we wouldn't have murders with shovels and butter knives spiking up, the problem is is easy access to guns, and laws that make it easy for you to shoot someone just cause they scare you. Once a gun is gone from the equation, dickless idiots like this homeowner aren't going to start murdering people with butterknives, they're just NOT going to murder people, because they don't have the means to easily do it

[QUOTE=Crimor;42786420]A gun is a tool like anything else[/QUOTE] What do you use a gun for other than shooting others?

[QUOTE=Marlwolf78;42786464]If guns were banned, we wouldn't have murders with shovels and butter knives spiking up, the problem is is easy access to guns, and laws that make it easy for you to shoot someone just cause they scare you. Once a gun is gone from the equation, dickless idiots like this homeowner aren't going to start murdering people with butterknives, they're just NOT going to murder people, because they don't have the means to easily do it[/QUOTE] So we punish everyone for the actions of a group of morons who shouldn't even have a gun in the first place.

[QUOTE=Marlwolf78;42786464]If guns were banned, we wouldn't have murders with shovels and butter knives spiking up, the problem is is easy access to guns, and laws that make it easy for you to shoot someone just cause they scare you. Once a gun is gone from the equation, dickless idiots like this homeowner aren't going to start murdering people with butterknives, they're just NOT going to murder people, because they don't have the means to easily do it[/QUOTE] butterknives and shovels don't have a fetishistic culture hopelessly ingrained in the bowels of American society either

[QUOTE=Crimor;42786420]A gun is a tool like anything else[/QUOTE] Yep. I always keep my handy gun ready for any problem on hand. If I need to open my beer? I just take out my trusty gun-tool and pop that sucker off. It's also a perfect home maintenance tool and great for installing rivets in sheet metal! I honestly don't think guns as things are the problem here, I think the problem is that the U.S. has a horrible, decadent culture that facilitates this shit, but I think nobody benefits from wording like this. It's a weapon - If you want to get into semantics, yeah it's a tool, but you're trying to phrase it benignly which isn't cool. Notice that last bit rhymed? That's like 40% of the reason I'm gonna post this.

[QUOTE=ThatSwordGuy;42786468]What do you use a gun for other than shooting others?[/QUOTE] Exactly lol last time I checked they were weapons not tools. The user you quoted on the other hand...

[QUOTE=Mabus;42786477]So we punish everyone for the actions of a group of morons who shouldn't even have a gun in the first place.[/QUOTE] I definitely think there should be regulations in place to make things difficult for people like this to own a gun, I was using "If guns were banned" as a hyperbole to show that if they didn't exist, it's not as if we'd have stories of people murdering each other with butterknives I'm not against people owning guns, but the problem is is that it's far too easy for idiots like this to get them, and when they do get them, the law is on their side most of the time once they kill someone for feeling 'scared'

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;42786458]Which situation is more likely to end bad: Holding a gun or holding e.g. a shovel?[/QUOTE] That depends on the context, if you hold a gun to a police officer with intent to kill, he'll shoot to kill as well. If you came at him with a shovel with intent to kill, he would still shoot to kill

[QUOTE=Marlwolf78;42786493]I definitely think there should be regulations in place to make things difficult for people like this to own a gun, I was using "If guns were banned" as a hyperbole to show that if they didn't exist, it's not as if we'd have stories of people murdering each other with butterknives I'm not against people owning guns, but the problem is is that it's far too easy for idiots like this to get them, and when they do get them, the law is on their side most of the time once they kill someone for feeling 'scared'[/QUOTE] Pretty much agree with you, it's just your previous post was just "If guns were banned,"

[QUOTE=Mabus;42786477]So we punish everyone for the actions of a group of morons who shouldn't even have a gun in the first place.[/QUOTE] That is like complaining that the motor industry is so heavily regulated because of all the morons who cause road fatalities. Deal with it.

I keep reading about being in the right if you shoot someone when you feel threathened or scared, could someone elaborate? Im not particularly informed on the ongoing gun debatte but it sure is interesting. "Being scared". Isnt that very easily abused? Would the guy in the article be in the right for being scared of a small woman?

[QUOTE=Mabus;42786477]So we punish everyone for the actions of a group of morons who shouldn't even have a gun in the first place.[/QUOTE] Which is, in my opinion, preferable to stories like this which pop up with frightening regularity. [editline]7th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=i-am-teh-sex;42786498]That depends on the context, if you hold a gun to a police officer with intent to kill, he'll shoot to kill as well. If you came at him with a shovel with intent to kill, he would still shoot to kill[/QUOTE] Congratulations on COMPLETELY missing the point.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;42786045]Guns enable bad people to very easily do bad things like what happened in the article. Don't even argue that.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Boaraes;42786325]This isn't a fucking gun thing. This is a human thing. You're all blaming the gun when it was the man who fucking killed her.[/QUOTE] Both are getting agrees the double standards on this forum are incredible

[QUOTE=Miskav;42785941]To be fair, who else immediately knew this was in America?[/QUOTE] To be fair I immediately knew this was in Detroit

[QUOTE=Lurker;42785885]This is why guns are bad.[/QUOTE] Exactly, this is why we should let the person who actually shot her free to go.

DETROIT

Are Detroit people that triggerhappy or what? I dont get it.

[QUOTE=Whiterfire;42786537]Both are getting agrees the double standards on this forum are incredible[/QUOTE] This forum isn't a goddamn hivemind, this thread is a shining example of differentiating opinions.

[QUOTE=The Combine;42786521]I keep reading about being in the right if you shoot someone when you feel threathened or scared, could someone elaborate? Im not particularly informed on the ongoing gun debatte but it sure is interesting. "Being scared". Isnt that very easily abused? Would the guy in the article be in the right for being scared of a small woman?[/QUOTE] The Michigan law is kinda vague. It more or less states that [QUOTE]"the individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent" the imminent death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault of himself or another individual."[/QUOTE] Which can extend into more or less anything in court, such as "I thought she had a gun, I thought she was trying to rob me". When you put decisions of life or death on things like feelings, then bad things tend to happen

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42786517]That is like complaining that the motor industry is so heavily regulated because of all the morons who cause road fatalities. Deal with it.[/QUOTE] I read and re-read your post and still don't understand what you mean. I post saying that by banning guns your essentially punishing everyone for the actions of the few. You post in response that by complaining that banning guns is essentially punishing everyone for the actions of the few, it equates to complaining that the motor industry is heavily regulated because of dangerous drivers.