Woman shot in the head after knocking on door and asking for help - Polidicks

[QUOTE=BFG9000;42872328]Yes why don't we adapt our laws to be more like Britain? That way if someone attacks us we just need to keep running until they go away![/QUOTE] Have you ever heard of ANYTHING like this happening from a source that wasn't the Daily Mail? Because believe it or not, self defence is not illegal. Use of excessive force is; which is to say, you can't break someone's face on the curb for shoving you.

[QUOTE=BFG9000;42872350]Are you fucking kidding me You mean, you live in a state where it's considered O.K. to just have your shit stolen? It's not so much about the possessions themselves, it's about the principle. Why should anyone have to hand over their belongings because they're under threat of harm?[/QUOTE] you want to kill people over a principle? Like you admit not even over a real reason? Just an ideology? You're such a coward.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42872359]you want to kill people over a principle? Like you admit not even over a real reason? Just an ideology?[/QUOTE] Fuck me but I don't see a reason why some dick should be able to threaten me and take my things without a chance to defend myself

if your justification for shooting someone is seriously "it's the PRINCIPLE of the thing!" then you're a fucking nutcase

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42872359]You're such a coward.[/QUOTE] Ok. [editline]15th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Cone;42872379]if your justification for shooting someone is seriously "it's the PRINCIPLE of the thing!" then you're a fucking nutcase[/QUOTE] If you'd rather hand over your belongings to an assailant given the chance to fight back with the reasoning of "I don't want any trouble" then I'd say you're a fucking nutcase Oh look I've joined the club

Sorry that you don't seem to give a shit about people threatening to kill you, but I tend to actually care when someone threatens my life, which is what they do when they point a gun or knife in my face. Also, great ad hominem there, real mature to just call your opponents racists and murderers with absolutely no evidence simply because they disagree with your opinion.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;42872410]Sorry that you don't seem to give a shit about people threatening to kill you, but I tend to actually care when someone threatens my life, which is what they do when they point a gun or knife in my face. Also, great ad hominem there, real mature to just call your opponents racists and murderers with absolutely no evidence simply because they disagree with your opinion.[/QUOTE] literally the only reason this black women died was because the gun owner used the rationale you guys are trying to use now.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42872419]literally the only reason this black women died was because the gun owner used the rationale you guys are trying to use now.[/QUOTE] Except we're not? There's a difference between hateful racism and what we're doing

Would any of you seriously try to fight a guy that has a gun aimed at your face? Or a knife for that matter. I wouldn't. I'd probably piss myself in terror and hand everything over; because I recognise that neither pride nor possessions are worth endangering my [b]life[/b]

[QUOTE=BFG9000;42872385]If you'd rather hand over your belongings to an assailant given the chance to fight back with the reasoning of "I don't want any trouble" then I'd say you're a fucking nutcase Oh look I've joined the club[/QUOTE] well unfortunately i don't seem to think that a TV or a wallet is really worth killing somebody over. if i did then i'd probably be the one breaking into people's houses

[QUOTE=Cone;42872443]well unfortunately i don't seem to think that a TV or a wallet is really worth killing somebody over. if i did then i'd probably be the one breaking into people's houses[/QUOTE] Who ever said you had to kill them? Besides, they created the situation with the intent to kill you if things go awry for them, there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be allowed a chance to fight back. [editline]15th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;42872432] I wouldn't. I'd probably piss myself in terror and hand everything over; because I recognise that neither pride nor possessions are worth endangering my [b]life[/b][/QUOTE] I'd share that sentiment but given the chance, if you were able to incapacitate an assailant and turn them into the police wouldn't you?

[QUOTE=BFG9000;42872429]Except we're not? There's a difference between hateful racism and what we're doing[/QUOTE] No literally the only reason this guy shot this black women was because he was scared of black people knocking on his door early in the morning because he didn't want to be a crime statistic. See what happens when you let people with faulty risk assessment (most people) decide what constitutes as valid lethal response. Literally a few posts ago someone was saying they'd intervene in a street fight with lethal force if he came across one. Without even caring to know the context or who to shoot. This is how people die. Not through petty crime.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42872469]No literally the only reason this guy shot this black women was because he was scared of black people knocking on his door early in the morning because he didn't want to be a crime statistic. See what happens when you let people with faulty risk assessment (most people) decide what constitutes as valid lethal response.[/QUOTE] Because black people knocking on your door is totally the same as someone pointing a gun in your face, right?

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42872469]No literally the only reason this guy shot this black women was because he was scared of black people knocking on his door early in the morning because he didn't want to be a crime statistic. See what happens when you let people with faulty risk assessment (most people) decide what constitutes as valid lethal response.[/QUOTE] Stop strawmanning We won't be shooting poor black women in the back just because we're "scared of black people and don't want to be a crime statistic" A man with a knife pointed at you and a suspicious looking person are two entirely different situations

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;42872485]Because black people knocking on your door is totally the same as someone pointing a gun in your face, right?[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter, everyone has different opinions on what is endangering them. Like personally, I wouldn't feel endangered if someone tried to mug me. You would. [editline]15th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=BFG9000;42872501]Stop strawmanning We won't be shooting poor black women in the back just because we're "scared of black people and don't want to be a crime statistic"[/QUOTE] But people do. And will continue to do so. I don't care what you say you would or wouldn't do because I'd never know.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42872502] Like personally, I wouldn't feel endangered if someone tried to mug me. You would.[/QUOTE] So then why should we tailor our responses to your sense of endangerment?

[QUOTE=BFG9000;42872518]So then why should we tailor our responses to your sense of endangerment?[/QUOTE] I never said that. I'm just saying your logic gets people killed thats all.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42872525]I never said that. I'm just saying your logic gets people killed thats all.[/QUOTE] And so does yours, that you just shouldn't do anything.

[QUOTE=BFG9000;42872454]Who ever said you had to kill them? Besides, they created the situation with the intent to kill you if things go awry for them, there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be allowed a chance to fight back.[/QUOTE] you have to shoot them because, if i'm not mistaken, you're only supposed to point a gun at something you're willing to destroy - and as many gun-rights advocates have pointed out before, there is no such thing as a warning shot in this kind of situation; that's a dangerous and dumb thing to do and it'll only get me hurt or killed. so if i have a gun, my only safe option is to shoot them, and that puts them at a not insignificant risk of dying. so yes, if you want me to fight back with a gun, i would have to shoot and possibly kill them. maybe it'll just incapacitate them if they're lucky, but the fact that i'm nonetheless taking that chance just adds an extra step to the equation. you want me to risk someone's life on principle.

No, you need to be [I]prepared[/I] to shoot them. If you point your gun at them and they shit themselves and give up and you shoot them then you're going to prison, and them giving up tends to be what happens, meaning you don't kill anyone and they go to jail, but if they don't immediately give up you need to be prepared to pull the trigger. Shooting them isn't inevitable, and IIRC is actually rather uncommon in self-defence situations, but it's something you need to be prepared to do if you draw your gun.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;42872638]No, you need to be [I]prepared[/I] to shoot them. If you point your gun at them and they shit themselves and give up and you shoot them then you're going to prison, and them giving up tends to be what happens, meaning you don't kill anyone and they go to jail, but if they don't immediately give up you need to be prepared to pull the trigger. Shooting them isn't inevitable, and IIRC is actually rather uncommon in self-defence situations, but it's something you need to be prepared to do if you draw your gun.[/QUOTE] well he said that you should have a gun for "fighting back" so i'd assume that he meant for there to be actual fighting involved

Most often it's "fight back" in the metaphorical sense (they shit themselves and give up when confronted with opposition), but you need to be prepared for it to be literal (they don't give up and you have to shoot them).

[QUOTE=BFG9000;42872350] It's not so much about the possessions themselves, it's about the principle. Why should anyone have to hand over their belongings because they're under threat of harm?[/QUOTE] this is america's issue. this is the issue with a country that bases absolutely all of its social norms, philosophy, and politics, on 'principles' that are rooted in the fears and beliefs of a post-revolutionary society, 300 years ago it's fucking 2013. this "it's always been like this and that is our principles so it's never going to change" shit needs to die

Apparently the guy who shot her got charged with 2nd degree murder according to CNN

In my state, it's illegal to shoot someone from behind because it implies they were running away. This guy would have been slapped with a murder charge a lot faster in Virginia.

seems like her only crime was knocking on the door of this whackjob.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42872469]No literally the only reason this guy shot this black women was because he was scared of black people knocking on his door early in the morning because he didn't want to be a crime statistic. See what happens when you let people with faulty risk assessment (most people) decide what constitutes as valid lethal response. Literally a few posts ago someone was saying they'd intervene in a street fight with lethal force if he came across one. Without even caring to know the context or who to shoot. This is how people die. Not through petty crime.[/QUOTE] Ok, but I'm not the guy that shot this chick. Me using lethal force to intervene in a street fight is the most escalated scenario.. People die through petty crime. This goes back to the term, "escalation".

using lethal force to intervene in a street fight jesus christ

[QUOTE=Cone;42871136]why do you guys always fantasize about killing people, it's fuckin creepy[/QUOTE] Your perception is laughable at best. [editline]15th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;42877413]using lethal force to intervene in a street fight jesus christ[/QUOTE] Lemme see those lib' tears, boy. :v: If you look at my original post, it wasn't just a street fight...it was an encounter where somebody was mercilessly beating the shit out of someone. There's a difference believe it or not.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;42872911]"it's always been like this and that is our principles so it's never going to change" shit needs to die[/QUOTE] those in the uk use the same reasoning but just on a more subtle level. you guys have had a very long history of gun restrictions so you are used to that environment.