Woman shot in the head after knocking on door and asking for help - Polidicks

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42787394]Valid reason for what? As in, do I believe that I should be allowed to own a gun for self/home defense? Yes, yes I do.[/QUOTE] So then why skirt round the issue with the whole 'guns are used for other purposes' argument

[QUOTE=gtanoofa;42786483]On the issue. So let me get this straight, the person who killed her heard the crash(i guess since i wouldn't run at a long distance to ask for help and car accidents can be heard from hundred yards away) and he assumed it was a burglar or a general danger and the crash was irrelevant? I dunno seems kind of weird to me.[/QUOTE] Everyone knows that burglars arrive by meteorite. [QUOTE=Crimor;42786690]Hunting? Target Practice? Defending yourself? What do you use knives for other than stabbing others.[/QUOTE] Killing non-humans Practicing killing things Threatening to kill as opposed to Slicing and spreading foods Opening containers Carving things Cutting ropes Cutting plants Cutting hair (razor) Surgery (scalpel) Trying to say that a gun is a tool on the same level as a shovel or a knife is ridiculously dumb, willfully or not. I understand that taking away guns from America at this point would be pointless and actually harmful, since so many guns are in the market right now, many people are very defensive of their guns, and criminals would have easy access to them. That doesn't mean that they're not a problem though. It just means that we have to solve the problem intelligently, such as putting in better regulations, decreasing our output of them, removing our [I]need[/I] for guns by reducing crime rates (such as through better and more available education), and getting rid of our fetishization of guns.

[QUOTE=Chili Banan;42787412]Good people can do good things without guns. Bad people can do worse things with guns that without. Cops disarm, what?[/QUOTE] And good people can do some good things better with guns. And his cops comment stems from the opinion of whether or not heavily limiting civilian gun ownership also means limiting cops use of firearms as well. Some people believe only the authorities should have guns, others think they should be disarmed as well. [editline]7th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=James*;42787416]So then why skirt round the issue with the whole 'guns are used for other purposes' argument[/QUOTE] What are you even talking about?

[QUOTE=Lurker;42785885]This is why guns are bad.[/QUOTE] It's the consciousness behind the gun that makes the difference. Depending on who is holding a gun, I can either feel safe or feel fear.

[QUOTE=Chili Banan;42787412]Good people can do good things without guns. Bad people can do worse things with guns that without. Cops disarm, what?[/QUOTE] If everyone gives up their guns, then why would the police need theirs anymore?

[QUOTE=viper shtf;42787398]I do, and I will. Freedom isn't free.[/QUOTE] I think a freer world is one where you aren't killed for knocking on someone's door for help

[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;42785975]Why does America still need guns in their constitution?[/QUOTE] AFAIK, the 'Right to bare arms' in the constitution was aimed towards Militias not everyday citizens.

[QUOTE=James*;42787448]I think a freer world is one where you aren't killed for knocking on someone's door for help[/QUOTE] That's "safer". Please invest in a dictionary.

[QUOTE=viper shtf;42787445]If everyone gives up their guns, then why would the police need theirs anymore?[/QUOTE] They wouldn't

[QUOTE=The Combine;42786491]Exactly lol last time I checked they were weapons not tools. The user you quoted on the other hand...[/QUOTE] Weapons are tools.

[QUOTE=viper shtf;42787459]That's "safer". Please invest in a dictionary.[/QUOTE] Semantics

[QUOTE=person11;42785951]Do people just see black people at night and decide they are definitely criminals are are okay to shoot? [/QUOTE] Depending on where you live, reports tend to instill a sense of fear, in my area there was a college student who was graduating, and coming back from his graduation party, was murdered in cold blood by four black people. When asked why they did it they just gave the reason they were "bored". My point is that after a while things tend to get people tend to get high strung. It's not [b]OH LORDY DEM BLACK FOLK AT MAH DOOR BETTER CULL DA HERD!!!!!!!1[/b], it's people being scared out of their mind because someone is banging on their door at an ungodly hour and scaring the living shit out of them, don't try to paint human beans like they're just serial killers wanting to jump at the first chance they get.

[QUOTE=James*;42787483]Semantics[/QUOTE] Except not really, as one can very easily be safe and not free. The inverse is also true, one can be free, but hardly safe.

[QUOTE=markg06;42786049]You can't just go "nope guns are banned now hand them over" with that many guns in circulation.[/QUOTE] Australia managed to do it perfectly fine, and I don't think anybody can argue that Australians are the most violent and bloodthirsty people on the planet, having been born and raised in Australia. [video=youtube;9pOiOhxujsE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE[/video]

A gun is no different than a rake or a handsaw. That's why so many killing sprees are perpetrated with rakes and handsaws.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42787428]What are you even talking about?[/QUOTE] I argue that guns are used primarily to kill/injure people People argue 'not anymore, they are used for sport/hunting' Yet these people also want guns for self-defense purposes, i.e. because they can still kill and/or injure Do you see what I'm getting at here

[QUOTE=James*;42787524]I argue that guns are used primarily to kill/injure people People argue 'not anymore, they are used for sport/hunting' Yet these people also want guns for self-defense purposes, i.e. because they can still kill and/or injure Do you see what I'm getting at here[/QUOTE] What's wrong with having guns for self-defense?

oh GREAT. now before I get to watch anderson cooper, I'll have to deal with piers bitching about another gun problem

[QUOTE=James*;42787524]I argue that guns are used primarily to kill/injure people People argue 'not anymore, they are used for sport/hunting' Yet these people also want guns for self-defense purposes, i.e. because they can still kill and/or injure Do you see what I'm getting at here[/QUOTE] No, you said [I]Murder.[/I] You didn't say kill/injure. [QUOTE=James*;42787124]Only the objects specifically designed for murder[/QUOTE] Those are two [I]totally[/I] different things. Yes, murder obviously means someone was killed, but killing does [I]not[/I] always mean murder.

[QUOTE=Bumrang;42787543]What's wrong with having guns for self-defense?[/QUOTE] That isn't my particulalr argument atm, my point is don't argue guns aren't for killing and injuring if you also want a gun because of its capacity to kill and injure

[QUOTE=Sokrates;42786780]What a barbaric country[/QUOTE] Is this comment for real? Are you seriously comparing an entire nation to this horrible incident? The America bashing in this thread is fucking nuts.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42787428]And good people can do some good things better with guns.[/QUOTE] Good people can do, what, better with guns? Don't say disarming bad people, because if this good person is truly good, he wouldn't shoot before the bad person, because he/she recognises the human life, and uses the firearm as an ultimate last resort. Now if this bad person percieves the good person as a threat, a big enough threat to defend him/herself with a gun, he/she would likely use the gun before the good person. If only the bad person would have had a gun, the bad person would not see this good person as big of a threat, and would less likely shoot. The good person might ask the bad person to put down his/her gun, if the person does, well done. If not, the bad person would still not nescessarily shoot you. That's just my way of reasoning. I am not denying that some people are in fact capable of owning guns, and some are not. My problem is that when everybody owns guns people percieve eachother as bigger threats, making them more prone to violently defend their own skin. It's like fuel for paranoia when everybody MIGHT be carrying a weapon to defend him/herself. [QUOTE=viper shtf;42787445]If everyone gives up their guns, then why would the police need theirs anymore?[/QUOTE] Because of illegal possesion of firearms I suppose. Or, lets say a person goes on a (unlikely) stabbing spree on a street and there is a cop present. Should the cop not have the upper hand in seizing the criminal instead of having a 50/50 chance of stabbing him down himself with his own knife? Because if the cop lost, the person would be free to continue stabbing. Just my way of reasoning. I understand that the police cannot be everywhere all the time. And besides, why would you need cops, when everybody has guns of their own?

[QUOTE=Bumrang;42787543]What's wrong with having guns for self-defense?[/QUOTE] The fact that they're largely unecessary. If a criminal has a gun, they probably do not want to use it. You should just let them take what they want and call the police, YOU are not in danger. The last thing I'd want to do to someone with a firearm is pull a gun on them! That's just going to make them shoot you.

[QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;42787496]Australia managed to do it perfectly fine, and I don't think anybody can argue that Australians are the most violent and bloodthirsty people on the planet, having been born and raised in Australia. [video=youtube;9pOiOhxujsE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE[/video][/QUOTE] As an Australian, our situation is way different from the U.S., I wouldn't use us as an example. Since 1980 Australia has had 16 mass shootings, with the U.S. having 30 (and that's using extremely rigorous specifications, it pretty much doubles if you include mass murders of any kind, and this is also outdated info not including the two mass shootings in three days that literally just occurred) since Columbine (1999) alone. Idk what it is but Americans should take a close look at themselves and figure out why their country's going to shit because it obviously is, then fix it, or they can just shout at liberals idk.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42787558]No, you said [I]Murder.[/I] You didn't say kill/injure. Those are two [I]totally[/I] different things. Yes, murder obviously means someone was killed, but killing does [I]not[/I] always mean murder.[/QUOTE] If I had changed my original post to 'ban objects specifically designed for killing' my argument would be entirely unchanged

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;42787521]A gun is no different than a rake or a handsaw. That's why so many killing sprees are perpetrated with rakes and handsaws.[/QUOTE] You laugh now, but that thread about the guy who cut his own head off with a chainsaw made a [I]pretty big splash[/I] on the ol' Facepunch forums back in 2008.

[QUOTE=James*;42787584]If I had changed my original post to 'ban objects specifically designed for killing' my argument would be entirely unchanged[/QUOTE] Except that one human's actions resulting in the death of another human are described as several different laws. Murder, Manslaughter, etc. Both are laws regarding the killing of another human, yes, but the intentions behind each are different. So your argument would be entirely changed by generalizing from the start, which you did not do. You specified "murder".

[QUOTE]once-again-a-black-person-is-shot-and-killed-while-loo-[/QUOTE] Seriously?

[QUOTE=James*;42787563]That is my particulalr argument atm, my point is don't argue guns aren't for killing and injuring if you also want a gun because of its capacity to kill and injure[/QUOTE] Unless I'm misreading nobody is arguing that guns are only not for killing and injuring, but they do have nonfatal purposes. Such as: Sport shooting Hunting (if you don't count it vs killing animals) It's just that a gun can also be used for self defense. Some people might want a gun purely for self defense, and I'm okay with that as long as people get the proper background/health checks and are taught proper gun safety if they haven't used a gun before.

[QUOTE=Crimor;42786420]A gun is a tool like anything else[/QUOTE] The difference lies in the application of said tools. Shovels are, for example, not for killing people but digging holes. Guns on the other hand are meant for killing.