Woman shot in the head after knocking on door and asking for help - Polidicks

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42788140]I can't remember which philosopher said it, but he suggested that the world would be a better place if only foreigners could vote in a countries election :v: He's probably right we regards to america at least.[/QUOTE] ...Then media and uninformed people were invented.

[QUOTE=James*;42788149]When your 'National' Security Agency stops bugging our phone lines then you have the right to tell us to butt out of your affairs :~)[/QUOTE] You get a zing for that. Though most ordinary Americans don't like the Nsa's spying anymore than you do.

[quote]s. "If he felt scared or threatened, he should have called 911."[/quote] To be fair, the police would have taken 12 hours to show up, if they decided to show up at all.

[QUOTE=Chili Banan;42788099]You are missing the point. A lot. If they are armed and I tell them "Stop, I have a gun with which I can shoot you." Do you not think they will try to defend their own lives, with their guns too? The point is, nobody has to get hurt. Pulling a gun greatly increases that risk. Even if they had a gun in the first place, pulling one yourself increases the risk of harming anyone. As I have said in two posts previously, they are MOST LIKELY not out to harm you, neither do they really want to. If you didn't read properly or didn't read at all, please go back and consider the arguments I posed. Material possesions can be replaced, lives can't. I'd rather have them stealing the stuff than gambling with lives.[/QUOTE] If they're not there to harm anyone than why do they have a weapon? If they have a weapon that means they are ready to potentially hurt someone, either me or someone else down the line. And you're also missing the point. Its not about stuff being stolen. Its about them violating the place where I should feel safe. Where I don't have to worry about whether or not someones here to steal my stuff or kill me. Where I shouldn't even have to worry about the thought of people breaking into my home.

[QUOTE=James*;42788149]When your 'National' Security Agency stops bugging our phone lines then you have the right to tell us to butt out of your affairs :~)[/QUOTE] Implying he had anything to do with that and/or approves of that. [QUOTE=W00tbeer1;42788174]Yeah, I guess I find it interesting how Europeans take such a keen interest in everything that happens in America while most Americans don't give two shits what happens in your country (no offense).[/QUOTE] Meanwhile the crack smoking canadian mayor has been on national news for days...

[QUOTE=W00tbeer1;42788174]Yeah, I guess I find it interesting how Europeans take such a keen interest in everything that happens in America while most Americans don't give two shits what happens in your country (no offense).[/QUOTE] He's Australian I think. Good effort though. Also, stop talking about Europe as a country. It's a moon. [editline]7th November 2013[/editline] Unless we're talking about the continent. Not a country ever though.

[QUOTE=W00tbeer1;42788174]Yeah, I guess I find it interesting how Europeans take such a keen interest in everything that happens in America while most Americans don't give two shits what happens in your country (no offense).[/QUOTE] I'm not sure parochialism is something to be proud of

[QUOTE=Coment;42788177]...Then media and uninformed people were invented.[/QUOTE] media in all forms was around back then, it should more properly be modern media. And uninformed people have been a staple of the world since the beginning anyway, except uninformed people of today are much more prone to knee jerk reactions.

Everyone shut the fuck up already. A girl is dead because some probably racist, ignorant asshole had an itchy trigger finger. This whole guns are evil argument won't help gun control nor will it be an argument against it. Guns are not the problem. People are. People abuse the system, they obtain these firearms illegally and use them, illegally. Gun Control doesn't fix that (ie, criminals follow laws right?). Correct me if I am wrong, but in Switzerland 1 in 2/3 people have their service rifle with them, and gun crimes or crimes in general are pretty low. The problem here in the US, theres a lot of fucked up, mentally ill, or just horrible people who do not care about the safety of others, let alone their own. It is THESE people that give guns a bad rep, because the easiest way to kill is to use a firearm. Sadly, guns are widespread in the crime world. Ban firearms and they'll only improvise, like the guy in China a couple of months ago who stabbed 50 people. Don't get me wrong, I fully support background checks and the registering of every gun. Doing this keeps track of who has a gun, and if they have the responsibility and maturity to handle that firearm. But widespread banning of guns won't help, because criminals will still get their guns, and if they cant, they'll use something else. I believe in concealed carry for people who are trained, registered, certified, etc in the use and handling of a firearm. My mother has a concealed carry, but she doesn't use it because she doesn't feel comfortable with her handgun yet. THAT is a good decision, however, the untrained person will carry it anyway and have an itchy trigger finger, similar to what happened here. We live in an evil world guys. Inanimate objects are not evil. People are. Evil people misuse objects such as firearms to commit evil and do terrible things to innocent people. I could keep going with this, but I'll stop here.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42788148]Things are bad here, but not in the ways that you think. Gun culture is an insignificant drop in the ocean compared to issues like an unhealthy economy, rampant poverty, schizophrenic healthcare, a growing wealth gap, incompetent and self-serving politicians, half-trained and undisciplined police, urban and infrastructural decay, government financial incompetence, a bloody protracted war, and many, many other issues. The problems with gun culture are insignificant compared to these. Why do you choose to focus on the splinter in our hand when we have a tree branch lodged in our gut?[/QUOTE] Handwavium This isn't a thread about that. America still gets shit in those threads too.

[QUOTE=W00tbeer1;42788174]Yeah, I guess I find it interesting how Europeans take such a keen interest in everything that happens in America while most Americans don't give two shits what happens in your country (no offense).[/QUOTE] have you considered it might be because the u.s. has a gigantic influence on pretty much every other country in the world politically, culturally and financially, maybe. that might be it, actually. hm.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;42788187]To be fair, the police would have taken 12 hours to show up, if they decided to show up at all.[/QUOTE] You guys really need to fix your fucking law enforcement forces. The Police should be obliged to react to and protect citizens from crime. Not "eh, I'm not in the mood", the Supreme Court fucked up by allowing this. The Police are supposed to be accountable, if shit goes south in a town, the police force should either do their jobs or be replaced.

[QUOTE=Squad1993;42788225] Ban firearms and they'll only improvise, like the guy in China a couple of months ago who stabbed 50 people.[/QUOTE] Dumb point. He stabbed 23 and no one died.

[QUOTE=darkrei9n;42788197]If they're not there to harm anyone than why do they have a weapon? If they have a weapon that means they are ready to potentially hurt someone, either me or someone else down the line. And you're also missing the point. Its not about stuff being stolen. Its about them violating the place where I should feel safe. Where I don't have to worry about whether or not someones here to steal my stuff or kill me. Where I shouldn't even have to worry about the thought of people breaking into my home.[/QUOTE] They have weapons to defend themselves against homeowners with weapons. The homeowners never really feel safe though. The homeowners live in a constant fear and paranoia that people have guns, so they get one themselves. I still strongly believe that things can be resolved without the possible hurting. I guess we just have different opinions.

[QUOTE=W00tbeer1;42788174]Yeah, I guess I find it interesting how Europeans take such a keen interest in everything that happens in America while most Americans don't give two shits what happens in your country (no offense).[/QUOTE] I would argue that says more about Americans than Europeans.

[QUOTE=Lurker;42785885]This is why guns are bad.[/QUOTE] No, this is why the wrong people having guns is bad.

[QUOTE=Squad1993;42788225]Everyone shut the fuck up already. A girl is dead because some probably racist, ignorant asshole had an itchy trigger finger. This whole guns are evil argument won't help gun control nor will it be an argument against it. Guns are not the problem. People are. People abuse the system, they obtain these firearms illegally and use them, illegally. Gun Control doesn't fix that (ie, criminals follow laws right?). Correct me if I am wrong, but in Switzerland 1 in 2/3 people have their service rifle with them, and gun crimes or crimes in general are pretty low. The problem here in the US, theres a lot of fucked up, mentally ill, or just horrible people who do not care about the safety of others, let alone their own. It is THESE people that give guns a bad rep, because the easiest way to kill is to use a firearm. Sadly, guns are widespread in the crime world. Ban firearms and they'll only improvise, like the guy in China a couple of months ago who stabbed 50 people. Don't get me wrong, I fully support background checks and the registering of every gun. Doing this keeps track of who has a gun, and if they have the responsibility and maturity to handle that firearm. But widespread banning of guns won't help, because criminals will still get their guns, and if they cant, they'll use something else. I believe in concealed carry for people who are trained, registered, certified, etc in the use and handling of a firearm. My mother has a concealed carry, but she doesn't use it because she doesn't feel comfortable with her handgun yet. THAT is a good decision, however, the untrained person will carry it anyway and have an itchy trigger finger, similar to what happened here. We live in an evil world guys. Inanimate objects are not evil. People are. Evil people misuse objects such as firearms to commit evil and do terrible things to innocent people. I could keep going with this, but I'll stop here.[/QUOTE] Fuck me sideways with a rusty pitchfork. Do I really have to post this again? Why? Why should we not debate the issue clearly at hand in a thread? In this case, firearms control and mental welfare. Just because somebody died does not write off the discussion. I've noticed this a lot with the pro-gun side, you will claim that the pro-control side argue from emotion ad nauseam, all because we like to point out "yo, less people dying, that's good!". But will try your fucking hardest to argue that because someone died it's disrespectful to debate gun control. Which, shock horror! is an argument from emotion, lovely double standard.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;42788234]Handwavium This isn't a thread about that. America still gets shit in those threads too.[/QUOTE] Then I will go back to my earlier point. Who are you to dictate what we can and cannot do? Guns are embedded in American culture. It has been that way since before the inception of our country, and it is unlikely to change for a long time, if ever. Guns are not a European cultural touchstone. You have little love for or reason to hold onto them. I understand that. That is not the case in the United States.

[QUOTE=Squad1993;42788225]Everyone shut the fuck up already. A girl is dead because some probably racist, ignorant asshole had an itchy trigger finger. This whole guns are evil argument won't help gun control nor will it be an argument against it. Guns are not the problem. People are. People abuse the system, they obtain these firearms illegally and use them, illegally. Gun Control doesn't fix that (ie, criminals follow laws right?). Correct me if I am wrong, but in Switzerland 1 in 2/3 people have their service rifle with them, and gun crimes or crimes in general are pretty low. The problem here in the US, theres a lot of fucked up, mentally ill, or just horrible people who do not care about the safety of others, let alone their own. It is THESE people that give guns a bad rep, because the easiest way to kill is to use a firearm. Sadly, guns are widespread in the crime world. Ban firearms and they'll only improvise, like the guy in China a couple of months ago who stabbed 50 people. Don't get me wrong, I fully support background checks and the registering of every gun. Doing this keeps track of who has a gun, and if they have the responsibility and maturity to handle that firearm. But widespread banning of guns won't help, because criminals will still get their guns, and if they cant, they'll use something else. I believe in concealed carry for people who are trained, registered, certified, etc in the use and handling of a firearm. My mother has a concealed carry, but she doesn't use it because she doesn't feel comfortable with her handgun yet. THAT is a good decision, however, the untrained person will carry it anyway and have an itchy trigger finger, similar to what happened here. We live in an evil world guys. Inanimate objects are not evil. People are. Evil people misuse objects such as firearms to commit evil and do terrible things to innocent people. I could keep going with this, but I'll stop here.[/QUOTE] Haven't you suffered from severe mental health issues before? (I'm not using it against you~ here) I'm just saying surely someone such as yourself wouldn't be allowed to own firearms, or for other people to keep then in your residence according to your suggestions.

[QUOTE=Marlwolf78;42786464]If guns were banned, we wouldn't have murders with shovels and butter knives spiking up, the problem is is easy access to guns, and laws that make it easy for you to shoot someone just cause they scare you. Once a gun is gone from the equation, dickless idiots like this homeowner aren't going to start murdering people with butterknives, they're just NOT going to murder people, because they don't have the means to easily do it[/QUOTE] Bad people will get guns at all costs, legally or illegally, banning firearms would just take the firearms away from collectors, and enthusiasts. a man who wants to kill will get his weapon no matter what.

I think there should be stricter background checks so people like this won't even get to touch a gun

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;42788329]I think there should be stricter background checks so people like this won't even get to touch a gun[/QUOTE] What if they go mental when they already own a gun?

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42788306]Then I will go back to my earlier point. Who are you to dictate what we can and cannot do? Guns are embedded in American culture. It has been that way since before the inception of our country, and it is unlikely to change for a long time, if ever. Guns are not a European cultural touchstone. You have little love for or reason to hold onto them. I understand that. That is not the case in the United States.[/QUOTE] If guns are so embedded in American culture why is it on the decline and held by a declining minority? Because america is one is of countries that has been steadily and consistently improving. This dramatic idealizing of firearms is just a load of inertia bullshit spun by marketers and lobbyists. In half a century the american public conscious probably won't even give a fuck about firearms as a public issue anymore. Nothing wrong with trying to be on the right side of history.

[QUOTE=duckmaster;42788316]Bad people will get guns at all costs, legally or illegally, banning firearms would just take the firearms away from collectors, and enthusiasts. a man who wants to kill will get his weapon no matter what.[/QUOTE] Does that mean we should stop trying? That we should give up on any form of reasonable regulation?

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42788306]Guns are not a European cultural touchstone. You have little love for or reason to hold onto them. I understand that. That is not the case in the United States.[/QUOTE] Guns are a shitty "cultural touchstone". Perhaps this is why your society fetishes the idea of being the hero? Being the guy with the gun who saves the day. Your culture is really, really immature compared to the rest of the world, you've only got a few centuries of real history and it is plagued with wars, guns, destruction of a people. I'm not saying we don't have awful things in our closet (we really fucked a lot of places up, still recovering to this day), but perhaps your historical reliance on firearms has caused such an awful social view of them today. Most people in the US with guns that I have debated with always argue "well, what if I want to defend my family? My home?", expecting a intrusion to go like Hollywood, where they scare the intruder off, or shoot them in the nick of time to save themselves. That isn't how it works, with more guns for defence comes an arms race for criminals to need guns for offence. We don't see many armed intruders in the UK not because guns are restricted, but because criminals don't need them to not be killed. Simple causality.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42788306]Then I will go back to my earlier point. Who are you to dictate what we can and cannot do? Guns are embedded in American culture. It has been that way since before the inception of our country, and it is unlikely to change for a long time, if ever. Guns are not a European cultural touchstone. You have little love for or reason to hold onto them. I understand that. That is not the case in the United States.[/QUOTE] Maybe outsiders' perspectives are worth acknowledging [I]because[/I] they are external and aren't influenced by deep historical/cultural baggage

[QUOTE=duckmaster;42788316]Bad people will get guns at all costs, legally or illegally, banning firearms would just take the firearms away from collectors, and enthusiasts. a man who wants to kill will get his weapon no matter what.[/QUOTE] There hasn't been a single mass shooting in Australia in almost two decades, but feel free to try again.

Statistically speaking, one in four of us suffer from a mental illness at any point of time, from one end of the spectrum to the other. Don't lets forget that mental illnesses and thought disorders are heavily stigmatized in modern society, where insensitive people gather together to make fun of the 'stupid retards.' Now see here, because of this stigmatization, a lot of people may be unwilling to seek help for their perceived or existing mental disorders, because they simply don't want to be thought of as 'that unstable guy who went to see a shrink' even though this is a bit of a generalization. For instance, mental disorder suffers from a large degree of stigma in a place like India, because it's more likely that your peers will poke fun at you or deem you a lightweight incapable of tolerating even a minimal degree of life stress. An important step to preventing shit like this from happening is to (1) be more supportive towards the average person on the street who may be suffering from mental illness, (2) not associate psychiatric visits as a sign of weakness, (3) understand that everybody has only a certain amount of rope they can give towards tolerance, (4) not stigmatize everybody with mental illness as being 'mad' and 'crazy', and (5) give mental health equal importance to physical health. Just tossing this out there.

[QUOTE=duckmaster;42788316]Bad people will get guns at all costs, legally or illegally, banning firearms would just take the firearms away from collectors, and enthusiasts. a man who wants to kill will get his weapon no matter what.[/QUOTE] This is false. The access to illegal firearms correlates directly to the availability of legal ones. That is why a crappy handgun with a handful of bullets if you're lucky in the UK can cost $4000. This is why most criminals don't have one.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;42788345]Guns are a shitty "cultural touchstone". Perhaps this is why your society fetishes the idea of being the hero? Being the guy with the gun who saves the day. Your culture is really, really immature compared to the rest of the world, you've only got a few centuries of real history and it is plagued with wars, guns, destruction of a people. I'm not saying we don't have awful things in our closet (we really fucked a lot of places up, still recovering to this day), but perhaps your historical reliance on firearms has caused such an awful social view of them today. Most people in the US with guns that I have debated with always argue "well, what if I want to defend my family? My home?", expecting a intrusion to go like Hollywood, where they scare the intruder off, or shoot them in the nick of time to save themselves. That isn't how it works, with more guns for defence comes an arms race for criminals to need guns for offence. We don't see many armed intruders in the UK not because guns are restricted, but because criminals don't need them to not be killed. Simple causality.[/QUOTE] I believe you may be right. I don't support gun rights based on some paranoid home defense fantasy though. There is far more to firearms than that. Far more.