[QUOTE=laserguided;46677033]Then you have no human sympathy. Thank fucking god you aren't a politician.[/QUOTE]
this is so ironic with the shit you've said before lmao
[QUOTE=TheTalon;46677024]I find it hard to feel bad. Ask Nick Berg's father, who watched his son get his head cut off, if he thinks Sleep Deprivation is torture. Give me a fucking break[/QUOTE]
Tell that to the innocent fuckers who get picked up and dropped into places like these mate.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;46677052]You have to be human for me to have human sympathy. Thanks to the media's 13 years of solid coverage of nothing but suicide bombings, beheadings, school children being locked in a burning school for not having their faces covered, and watching 9/11 live on TV in high school, I have NO sympathy or care for Al-qaeda, and even less for ISIS
Sorry, but that's just how I am[/QUOTE]
Afaik the people being tortured were not convicted of a crime in a court.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;46677024]I find it hard to feel bad. Ask Nick Berg's father, who watched his son get his head cut off, if he thinks Sleep Deprivation is torture. Give me a fucking break[/QUOTE]
The problem is that it wasn't just sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation was used alongside waterboarding and other methods which are torture.
Plus it was completely useless at getting information - so you are doing these things for no benefit at all.
And on top of that they were doing these things to innocent people as well which is quite frankly disgusting. If you [I]are[/I] going to torture someone atleast make damn sure you've got the right person.
[QUOTE=laserguided;46677059]Afaik the people being tortured were not convicted of a crime in a court.[/QUOTE]
The CIA used a legal loophole that allows them to indefinitely detain suspects for having committed a "crime of fashion".
[QUOTE=Medevila;46677092]Clarification, are you referring to these people? Because I'd say they were tortured, and not convicted of a crime in a court
but that's neither here nor there, doesn't make US torture -right-
[editline]9th December 2014[/editline]
idk I think it's a pretty good sign when this [B]one[/B] of the [B]many[/B] western governments obviously implicated in torture makes an effort at transparency
but yea it's a shame the states' can't be a "modern democracy" and strictly cover up things like a proper western nation
CIA is more akin to the military than a branch of gov't regardless, [B]you of all people would be aware of that[/B][/QUOTE]
Since he knows every other fucking thing about the US. I wonder if its burdensome to be so all-knowing and wise
[QUOTE=laserguided;46676891]None? Afaik bashing the U.S. for torturing people and threatening to kill their families is fully justified.[/QUOTE]
Oh yes 315 million people are fully responsible for what a small committee of people unbeknownst to them did in the shadows.
Great logic, there truly striving to make poster of the year 2014
Torture carried out by a goverment agency is the kind of stuff you see in a dictatorship. Anyways, there's no doubt the U.S goverment is responsible for what one of their agencies did.
[QUOTE=maxspeed3006;46677246]Torture carried out by a goverment agency is the kind of stuff you see in a dictatorship. Anyways, there's no doubt the U.S goverment is responsible for what one of their agencies did.[/QUOTE]
If you think the US is the only government to commit torture, well then I have a beach front property in montana to sell you
[QUOTE=Dougz;46677269]If you think the US is the only government to commit torture, well then I have a beach front property in montana to sell you[/QUOTE]
When did i even imply that?
[QUOTE]@arvindrkrish tweets: Regardless of what the #TortureReport says, it's worth noting that US is ready to release details about its own misconduct-that's democracy[/QUOTE]
I think this is a good counter point to the pointless "hurr freedumb murrikkka" garbage. Regardless though, the actions of the CIA and the seeming disinterest of the government to do any real oversight until the issue blew up in their fucking laps is still troublesome. People need to be severely punished for this.
[QUOTE=maxspeed3006;46677289]When did i even imply that?[/QUOTE]
Well you did just call the US a dictatorship which is way #12004 to get people angry
[QUOTE=Srillo;46677361]I think this is a good counter point to the pointless "hurr freedumb murrikkka" garbage. Regardless though, the actions of the CIA and the seeming disinterest of the government to do any real oversight until the issue blew up in their fucking laps is still troublesome. People need to be severely punished for this.[/QUOTE]
That actually isn't the definition of democracy. The U.S. isn't a democracy.
[editline]9th December 2014[/editline]
What I want to know is why there are 3 black sites in Eastern Europe. I thought those countries wanted out of repression.
CIA's been doing this kinda shit for decades. Funny how some people get shocked from hearing about it.
[QUOTE]As described in the context of the rectal feeding of al-Nashiri, Ensure was infused into al Nashiri "in a forward-facing position (Trendlenberg) with head lower than torso." ([I]See[/I] (231709Z MAY 04).) [B]Majid Khan's "lunch tray" of hummus, pasta with sauce, nuts, and raisins was "pureed" and rectally infused.[/B]
[...]
CIA records indicate that one of the detainees, Mustafa al-Hawsawi, was later diagnosed with [B]chronic hemorrhoids, an anal fissure, and symptomatic rectal prolapse.[/B][/QUOTE]
[THUMB]http://s14.postimg.org/je3k8cxsx/image.png[/THUMB]
:suicide:
I can't possibly support unreasonable means of interrogation like this.
[QUOTE=laserguided;46676807]Freedom loving good ol 'murica[/QUOTE]
I can't possibly support this kind of shit posting either.
Anyone who believes the US government wasn't responsible or complicit in the actions of their own goddamn government agency is a fool. It's their responsibility to keep reins on their agency, and incompetence is not an excuse. And as unpopular as this viewpoint will be, I agree with laser guided. Wilful blindness and real fucking hypocrisy is all I'm seeing here.
Will americans care enough to take action? Hell no. They ought to be lynching Cheney, but I promise the law won't touch him.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;46677454]Well you did just call the US a dictatorship which is way #12004 to get people angry[/QUOTE]
Never called the US a dictatorship, if anything, i said that i was surprised a "democratic" country would carry out torture techniques on some of their prisoners as this is more commonly seen only on dictatorships.
[QUOTE=leoshig;46677514]CIA's been doing this kinda shit for decades. Funny how some people get shocked from hearing about it.[/QUOTE]
I don't know anything about US education but i find it surprising that most people don't know the kind of shit the CIA pulled during the 70s/80s in South America with [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor"]Operation Condor[/URL], Especially since this heavily involved torture of detainees.
This was pretty obvious to be honest. And I really doubt it's going to change.
[QUOTE=archangel125;46677557]Anyone who believes the US government wasn't responsible or complicit in the actions of their own goddamn government agency is a fool. It's their responsibility to keep reins on their agency, and incompetence is not an excuse. And as unpopular as this viewpoint will be, I agree with laser guided. Wilful blindness and real fucking hypocrisy is all I'm seeing here.
Will americans care enough to take action? Hell no. They ought to be lynching Cheney, but I promise the law won't touch him.[/QUOTE]
Can you provide details or evidence that counter the points made in the report? I'm only 79 pages in, but from what I have gathered so far, the CIA downplayed a lot of their actions and exaggerated their benefits with who they did talk to, and several pieces of information in the report seem to show that even President Bush was out of the loop on just how far this was being taken.
If the CIA correspondence is accurate, which, lacking any counter-evidence, I believe they might be, the CIA discussed and recommended internally that he be briefed, but no such briefing actually happened in 2006, when they disclosed the techniques they used. It also noted his response of immediate discomfort with the idea.
Like it or not, and admit it or not, this has the potential to be a very groundbreaking report. for weeks we will see what comes from it, be it new evidence to report contrary information, or excuses by higher ups trying to downplay the intensity of what happened.
This doesn't seem to be a case of willful blindness. This looks more like a case of the CIA blatantly refusing to reveal what it was doing in order to ensure that it could continue doing it, regardless of the lack of productive results.
I would tell anyone making arguments like this that until something concrete comes out to prove otherwise, this is a legitimate batch of evidence supporting a wide range of situations that happened for several years, and we should be open-minded about the ramifications of it until something new comes out.
[QUOTE=archangel125;46677557]They ought to be lynching Cheney, but I promise the law won't touch him.[/QUOTE]
No one in the government knew what was really going on. The CIA lied to the White House, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, fuckin everyone. Dianne Feinstein(a Dem) made this really fucking clear today when she went over the report in the Senate. The CIA virtually went rogue on this.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;46677024]I find it hard to feel bad. Ask Nick Berg's father, who watched his son get his head cut off, if he thinks Sleep Deprivation is torture. Give me a fucking break[/QUOTE]
What about being thrown against walls? Having your head smashed against walls? Being tied with hands above your head for unimaginable periods of time? Having your food/water pureed and injected into your anus, resulting in fissures and other damage. Being put into a tiny box for a total of hundreds of hours, being waterboarded 183 times total, to the point that you convulse, vomit, or in one instance, become entirely unresponsive and in need of immediate resuscitation? Being dragged on the ground while being beaten, put in pitch black rooms with music blaring 24 hours a day, being prevented from sleeping for over 100 hours. Having threats made against your loved ones regardless of their connection?
In fact, let me ask if you think this is acceptable for people that the CIA acknowledged were not legitimate suspects, one person being noted as "in the wrong place at the wrong time".
Are all of those things acceptable? Is torture of people acknowledged to probably not being guilty of anything okay? How about saying that this torture was a success, not because it brought any new information from the person, but because it "confirmed that they did in fact not know anything else"?
blanket statements like yours are a major factor as to why this will likely not cause the outcry it should.
[QUOTE=Bentham;46677833]If the CIA correspondence is accurate, which, lacking any counter-evidence, I believe they might be[/QUOTE]
Congress Republicans, including many members of the committees (SSCI/HPSCI) that released the report, have taken issue with it, so I would expect a rebuttal to be released very soon. What they're going to rebut I don't know, but it's worth hearing all sides of the story before forming conclusions.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;46677870]No one in the government knew what was really going on. The CIA lied to the White House, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, fuckin everyone. Dianne Feinstein(a Dem) made this really fucking clear today when she went over the report in the Senate. The CIA virtually went rogue on this.[/QUOTE]
This has been said before with other agencies and other operations and it's always bullshit. Feinstein claimed a few months ago she was never briefed on the torture operations, then documents were released showing she was [I]and supported them[/I]. An agency can't be 'rogue' when its budget is supervised by Congress and every operation goes through Congressional authorization for funding.
No Democrat in Congress wants to say that they endorsed a now-unpopular torture program, and since over a decade has elapsed it's easier for them to just say they were never briefed than to defend their previous support. Then when you stop caring and have re-elected them, they'll privately apologize and make up and go back to business as usual. It's happened before and it'll happen again.
[QUOTE=catbarf;46677936]Congress Republicans and the intelligence community, including many members of the committees (SSCI/HPSCI) that released the report, have taken issue with it, so I would expect a rebuttal to be released very soon.
[/QUOTE]
I've seen a lot of statements calling into question the accuracy of the report, but I have yet to see a statement where they give clarification as to why. It usually seems to boil down to "no it's not accurate, it says that no major success actually happened and provides internal CIA correspondence to back it up, but trust us it worked"
In all honesty I expect that trend to continue, and when really questioned about it, the CIA will simply say that it is classified and they can't give actual contrary evidence. Similar to how the other 5,500 pages of the document were shelved from release. With that last fact in mind, there are countless other details that we have not seen that could either confirm the report, confirm the CIA's arguments, or whatever else that we will likely never know about, which is pretty frustrating. Even with this release, we still don't have the full story.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46676825]i'd say shit talking the US is justified in this case because.... well, torture.[/QUOTE]
No, shittalking the government agencies is what's fair game.
I, and I hope you, don't torture people, the government (that I can't even vote for for two more years) does.
Nobody will ever be held accountable. It's an unspoken rule that administrations do not turn around and prosecute their predecessors.
Probably because every president knows they'll need the same courtesy when [I]they[/I] leave office.
We spit on human rights. We always have, and we probably always will. We just camouflage it with stacks of paper and legal arguments and euphemistic language.
Who fucking cares about the results?
Not a single human being in the world deserves to be tortured and if you support it in any way, you're seriously fucked in the head
be glad they don't use medieval torture methods.
coughjudascradlecough.
Sometimes pragmatism is necessary.
Id like to see reports like this from other countries.
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