[QUOTE=stepat201;29585022]Is he even more of a disaster than Dion? That's pretty funny if true.
And this thread is a lot more butthurt than I've seen in a long time.[/QUOTE]
Dion just didn't win,
Ignatieff decimated the liberal party and let the NDP soar up from 36 seats to over 90.
I say good riddance, the sooner were rid of these "moderates" and "centrists" the better, they only obscure the issues they get involved in.
Now the ideological lines are drawn and we can finally tackle the issues without someone jumping in the middle and shouting
"EVERYONE IS HALF RIGHT, LETS DO IT HALF, ONLY A LITTLE BIT."
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29585093]Intellectualism is a political liability in this age of conservatives I guess[/QUOTE]
Disappointing, really.
[QUOTE=Shadowstone;29585092]That's not how I, and probably the majority of the thread viewers saw your posts, at all.[/QUOTE]
Then I apologize. My mind is a little clearer now I'm done complaining.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;29585075]He was out of the country for some 30 years, then he came back and wanted to lead us.[/QUOTE]
30 years? What the fuck...?
Our enemies could of brainwashed him!
Wait.. I mean.... our friendly neighbors of the United States Of America could of brainwashed him...
I think Zeke, archangel and I should form the New Facepunch Party of Canada.
First order of business, ban cardboard boxes.
[QUOTE=archangel125;29585116]Hey, I've got nothing personally against Harper. I take issue with the direction in which I fear he will try to steer Canada. We've got a great international reputation, and I won't see that dragged through the mud. Canada right now is still a pretty good place to live. It's a country I'm still proud of.
I'm terrified that will change, and hoping it won't. Because majority governments here have far too much power.[/QUOTE]
He's been in power for five years now. You've claimed you're happy with how the country is right now. Since he has been in power for half a decade, and you're worried of the direction? I don't think it'll be as harsh as you're thinking. It's all about waiting.
Also, your posts were way harsher than you are coming off as right now.
EDIT: Fair enough. I don't mean to bash, but I don't have the title of News Baron for nothing.
[QUOTE=Novistador;29585121]Dion just didn't win,
Ignatieff decimated the liberal party and let the NDP soar up from 36 seats to over 90.
I say good riddance, the sooner were rid of these "moderates" and "centrists" the better, they only obscure the issues they get involved in.
Now the ideological lines are drawn and we can finally tackle the issues without someone jumping in the middle and shouting
"EVERYONE IS HALF RIGHT, LETS DO IT HALF, ONLY A LITTLE BIT."[/QUOTE]
Canada needs a moderate voice - but really, that's the NDP. The 'Liberal' party leans more right than left these days.
[QUOTE=Novistador;29585121]Dion just didn't win,
Ignatieff decimated the liberal party and let the NDP soar up from 36 seats to over 90.
I say good riddance, the sooner were rid of these "moderates" and "centrists" the better, they only obscure the issues they get involved in.
Now the ideological lines are drawn and we can finally tackle the issues without someone jumping in the middle and shouting
"EVERYONE IS HALF RIGHT, LETS DO IT HALF, ONLY A LITTLE BIT."[/QUOTE]
Centrist parties are the bomb man, you get the best of both worlds. In the states you either choose between right or left. I like mixing big business and social programs. It's really the only way I see us progressing.
[editline]3rd May 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=archangel125;29585199]Canada needs a moderate voice - but really, that's the NDP. The 'Liberal' party leans more right than left these days.[/QUOTE]
No, not really.
[QUOTE=archangel125;29585199]Canada needs a moderate voice - but really, that's the NDP. The 'Liberal' party leans more right than left these days.[/QUOTE]
In all honesty the Liberal Party is the most towards the center of all the major parties. They and the NDP are very close overall, and many people would like to see a merger of the parties.
[QUOTE=Shadowstone;29585164]He's been in power for five years now. You've claimed you're happy with how the country is right now. Since he has been in power for half a decade, and you're worried of the direction? I don't think it'll be as harsh as you're thinking. It's all about waiting.
Also, your posts were way harsher than you are coming off as right now.
EDIT: Fair enough. I don't mean to bash, but I don't have the title of News Baron for nothing.[/QUOTE]
Harper has led for five years - in a minority government. The opposition held him in check when he tried to do things that were absolutely ridiculous. That's why this election was called. With a majority government, provided his party is loyal, he'll be able to get away with literally anything.
[QUOTE=archangel125;29585221]Harper has led for five years - in a minority government. The opposition held him in check when he tried to do things that were absolutely ridiculous. That's why this election was called. With a majority government, provided his party is loyal, he'll be able to get away with literally anything.[/QUOTE]
And you assume that he hasn't learned anything from these five years? And the opposition to the recent policies before the election?
[QUOTE=Shadowstone;29585217]In all honesty the Liberal Party is the most towards the center of all the major parties. They and the NDP are very close overall, and many people would like to see a merger of the parties.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I wouldn't mind a merger of the Liberal and NDP parties. If there had been one, and they'd put their differences aside, this election would have turned out very differently.
[QUOTE=archangel125;29585221]Harper has led for five years - in a minority government. The opposition held him in check when he tried to do things that were absolutely ridiculous. That's why this election was called. With a majority government, provided his party is loyal, he'll be able to get away with literally anything.[/QUOTE]
I still can't believe even though that whole "contempt parliament" thing happened, Harper STILL gets voted back in. It's disgusting.
[QUOTE=Shadowstone;29585238]And you assume that he hasn't learned anything from these five years? And the opposition to the recent policies before the election?[/QUOTE]
I sure hope he has. My point, however, is that if he does use this newfound power to damage public healthcare, paving the way for US healthcare and insurance providers to move in, Canada will never, ever be able to get rid of them, and our world-famous public healthcare system will crumble, no matter which government comes after.
This is an issue close to my heart, because my brother underwent open brain surgery last year - and has almost completely recovered now. Without public healthcare, we wouldn't have been able to afford it. He would have died. Or I'd have started growing and selling drugs to pay the medical fees - or done something desperate, something else illegal, because no sacrifice would have been too great. That's the future Canada can look forward to if Harper touches healthcare.
[QUOTE=archangel125;29585268]I sure hope he has. My point, however, is that if he does use this newfound power to damage public healthcare, paving the way for US healthcare and insurance providers to move in, Canada will never, ever be able to get rid of them, and our world-famous public healthcare system will crumble.[/QUOTE]
:canada:
Yeah, the NDP also has candidates who are waitresses who have no clue what they are doing. They have no real budget plan, tons of promises but no way to really implement them financially. I think the Liberals are better. The Conservatives scare me with the healthcare issue, a lot. Like, really the Liberals fucked us here, they lost the confidence the Canadian people had in them and the NDP came in and split the vote even more. Really, the only good thing about this election is that the BQ is basically gone.
Ignatieff should take his corporate ass and bring it back to USA
[QUOTE=archangel125;29585199]Canada needs a moderate voice - but really, that's the NDP. The 'Liberal' party leans more right than left these days.[/QUOTE]
Thats absurd the NDP are an explicitly socialist party,
If your a socialist come out and say it, instead of trying to be all things to all people and saying your a moderate or centrist.
Alternatively your the kind of centrist who honestly believes there is no way to determine the truth about anything, and human beings are helpless to perceive reality correctly so our best bet is to just take some kind of shotgun attempt to arrive at truth and hope for the best.
The first people are dishonest,
The second group is confessing their support of a incorrect epistemology.
[QUOTE=archangel125;29585268]I sure hope he has. My point, however, is that if he does use this newfound power to damage public healthcare, paving the way for US healthcare and insurance providers to move in, Canada will never, ever be able to get rid of them, and our world-famous public healthcare system will crumble.[/QUOTE]
Our health care system isn't world famous in the sense you're thinking. It may be famous because it's universal and free, but it comes at a price: the quality of the healthcare is severely behind that of other developed countries. The wait times in ER rooms is high, many surgeries are not done, so people must go abroad. A good chunk of ill people go to the US in order to get quick, higher quality operations that Canada simply can't provide as well.
[editline]2nd May 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;29585264]I still can't believe even though that whole "contempt parliament" thing happened, Harper STILL gets voted back in. It's disgusting.[/QUOTE]
Don't think that they're going to forget about that. They are still liable for punishment for that, regardless of being a majority government.
[QUOTE=Shadowstone;29585308]Our health care system isn't world famous in the sense you're thinking. It may be famous because it's universal and free, but it comes at a price: [B]the quality of the healthcare is severely behind that of other developed countries. The wait times in ER rooms is high, many surgeries are not done, so people must go abroad.[/B] A good chunk of ill people go to the US in order to get quick, higher quality operations that Canada simply can't provide as well.[/QUOTE]
Personal experience has proven otherwise.
[QUOTE=Shadowstone;29585308]Our health care system isn't world famous in the sense you're thinking. It may be famous because it's universal and free, but it comes at a price: the quality of the healthcare is severely behind that of other developed countries. The wait times in ER rooms is high, many surgeries are not done, so people must go abroad. A good chunk of ill people go to the US in order to get quick, higher quality operations that Canada simply can't provide as well.
[editline]2nd May 2011[/editline]
Don't think that they're going to forget about that. They are still liable for punishment for that, regardless of being a majority government.[/QUOTE]
What sort of punishment are we talking about here?
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;29585264]I still can't believe even though that whole "contempt parliament" thing happened, Harper STILL gets voted back in. It's disgusting.[/QUOTE]
I think that the people who support the conservatives, don't really care about Harper messing around with the democratic process, because he was messing around with the democratic process in a way that was consistent with conservative ideology.
[QUOTE=Novistador;29585303]Thats absurd the NDP are an explicitly socialist party,
If your a socialist come out and say it, instead of trying to be all things to all people and saying your a moderate or centrist.
Alternatively your the kind of centrist who honestly believes there is no way to determine the truth about anything, and human beings are helpless to perceive reality correctly so our best bet is to just take some kind of shotgun attempt to arrive at truth and hope for the best.
The first people are dishonest,
The second group is confessing their support of a incorrect epistemology.[/QUOTE]
Socialism isn't strictly left... if you know anything of the political spectrum and political science, you'd know that socialism is discerned from extreme socialism, to moderate, to centrist socialism. I may be wrong with the terms, but you're comparing this to the likes of the conservatives being strictly right-winged conservative- they're not; they are more towards the center than you'd think.
[editline]2nd May 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;29585336]What sort of punishment are we talking about here?[/QUOTE]
If they are held in contempt of parliament, they will still be held liable and be punished accordingly.
Shadowstone, I've updated the post of mine you last quoted.
I do agree that it's a great thing we do have- free healthcare. I'm not trashing it. I'm just saying that many people do not think the standard of health care in Canada is as good as others- I've had many surgeries, and I have been satisfied with the results. The only thing bad about them would be wait times - I would have to wait months to get surgery.
For the most part, I do agree with you, though.
[QUOTE=archangel125;29585324]Personal experience has proven otherwise.[/QUOTE]
I'm no advocate of socialized medicine, but the way that Americans misunderstand the Canadian system and attack straw men is ridiculous.
The funniest example of this I've seen in a while is a video I found on Ujjal Dosanjh's Campaign site.
It's from when the U.S was debating healthcare reform and Rick Sanchez just jumps on any opportunity he can to take a statement out context, the little black box in the corner is especially entertaining
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XWZBrg91Ik[/media]
Duceppe just RESIGNED! It figures, though, that he still kept pushing separatism even as he was leaving. Good riddance.
[QUOTE=Shadowstone;29585344]Socialism isn't strictly left... if you know anything of the political spectrum and political science, you'd know that socialism is discerned from extreme socialism, to moderate, to centrist socialism. I may be wrong with the terms, but you're comparing this to the likes of the conservatives being strictly right-winged conservative- they're not; they are more towards the center than you'd think.
[/QUOTE]
Whether one superficially supports Capitalism
Or superficially supports Socialism
Is what defines left and right, please show me all these right wing Socialists you seem to think exist.
What I oppose is moderatism, or centrism as an ideology
If you say, "I support a free market in issues a, b and c, for x, y, z reasons, but not in other issues for other reasons" then your not a moderate or centrist, you've come up with a consistent ideology and you advocate that, not the idea that the truth is ALWAYS somewhere in between, or impossible to arrive at alltogeather.
You could prove a person with a consistent ideology wrong or right, your could never touch a centrist or moderate because they would just move what they believe in because thats what defines them.
[QUOTE=Novistador;29585559]Whether one superficially supports Capitalism
Or superficially supports Socialism
Is what defines left and right, please show me all these right wing Socialists you seem to think exist.
What I oppose is moderatism, or centrism as an ideology
If you say, "I support a free market in issues a, b and c, for x, y, z reasons, but not in other issues for other reasons" then your not a moderate or centrist, you've come up with a consistent ideology and you advocate that, not the idea that the truth is ALWAYS somewhere in between, or impossible to arrive at alltogeather.
You could prove a person with a consistent ideology wrong or right, your could never touch a centrist or moderate because they would just move what they believe in because thats what defines them.[/QUOTE]
But that's the way works, doesn't it?
[QUOTE=archangel125;29570027]The only news services with headlines nearly that stupid are the Daily Mail, and Fox News.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13091920[/url]
There's a few more articles on it but they all have the same tone.
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