Maricopa Co. Sheriff's Office: "9 points of forgery" in Obama's birth certificate - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Tudd;51538027]Not because of your fantasy that I actually am trying to convert people to the birther movement.[/QUOTE] Please don't put words in my mouth.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51537941]This isn't news tudd, it's a nonsense conspiracy theory and I legitimately don't understand why you posted it.[/QUOTE] because it might distract us from the mental gymnastics trump engages in every single day. or maybe he wants to show you that the playing field really is level despite what the damn establishment lefties want you to think, what with silencing REAL CONSERVATIVE VIEWS by labelling it as fake news darn it

I don't get why anyone takes Arpaio seriously when just searching his Wikipedia article reads out worse than that of Charles Manson. Shit, just read the opening paragraph lol. [quote]Joseph Michael "Joe" Arpaio (born June 14, 1932) is an American law enforcement officer and has been the elected Sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona from 1993 to January 2017, when he will be succeeded by Paul Penzone. Arpaio has been accused of various types of misconduct, including abuse of power, misuse of funds, failure to investigate sex crimes, improper clearance of cases, unlawful enforcement of immigration laws, and election law violations. A Federal court monitor was appointed to oversee his office's operations because of complaints of racial profiling. The U.S. Department of Justice concluded that Arpaio oversaw the worst pattern of racial profiling in US history, and subsequently filed suit against him for unlawful discriminatory police conduct.[/quote] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio[/url] Here's some more reading for you all: [url]http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/05/14/478050934/in-racial-profiling-lawsuit-ariz-judge-rules-sheriff-arpaio-in-contempt-of-court[/url] [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sheriff-joe-arpaio-lawsuit_us_5852c6fce4b012849c05cf09[/url] [url]http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/sheriff-joe-arpaios-sex-crime-scandal-after-five-years-no-one-disciplined-report-still-unfinished-6632542[/url] [t]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_koT2-lgEUh8/TDTOxplNWRI/AAAAAAAAAA8/-PkyoyDWu2A/s1600/hitlerarpaio.jpg[/t] I usually don't say this about people, but it's a shame there's no ice in Arizona because I wouldn't mind seeing ol' Joey boy slipping on some ice and being out of service quicker than 2017. The fucking sheriff in the first Rambo film is a more sympathetic guy than this fuck.

tudd you remind me of lamar (intended merge, sorry)

Any official who carries on with this racist nonsense should be fired.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;51536917]It has nothing to do with his race, he had a questionable childhood that sparked Clinton supporters to start this witchhunt. If a white dude was born in Germany or someshit you bet his political rivals would do the same thing.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=sgman91;51536947]You mean like when people tried to bring up McCain not being born in the US in order to make his presidential run illegitimate? (Oh, wait. He's white so he doesn't count.)[/QUOTE] you gotta be so fucking detached from reality to think racism isn't playing a part in this

Watched the video a bit. The most interesting point for me, if I understood it correctly, was that there are two boxes with stamps (by hand) that both match in angle and everything between those documents, according to this guy. Then some stuff about relative distance between points matching. I think it would be best to actually encourage some other party to check their claims. Then maybe it could be a done deal. What does saying racism help with, feels like an instant discredited topic like arguing about holocaust details.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51538225]you gotta be so fucking detached from reality to think racism isn't playing a part in this[/QUOTE] What a wonderful and meaningful response.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51538291]What a wonderful and meaningful response.[/QUOTE] prove to me that racism has nothing to do with this, and i will prove to you it does

[QUOTE=sgman91;51538291]What a wonderful and meaningful response.[/QUOTE] It is very much a meaningful response. People who fail to factor racism into this matter are being ignorant, perhaps even willfully.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51538310]prove to me that racism has nothing to do with this, and i will prove to you it does[/QUOTE] You made the positive claim. The burden of proof lies on you.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51538331]You made the positive claim. The burden of proof lies on you.[/QUOTE] you're missing the point, lol. let me try again: [I]can[/I] you prove to me that racism has nothing to do with this? [I]can[/I] i prove that racism is the driving force behind it?

[QUOTE=sgman91;51538291]What a wonderful and meaningful response.[/QUOTE] despite the sarcastic post, you're not wrong here

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51538335]you're missing the point, lol. let me try again: [I]can[/I] you prove to me that racism has nothing to do with this? [I]can[/I] i prove that racism is the driving force behind it?[/QUOTE] No, I'm not missing the point. I have no obligation to prove anything at all unless you first provide proof that it was based on racism.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51538356]No, I'm not missing the point. I have no obligation to prove anything at all unless you first provide proof that it was based on racism.[/QUOTE] How about you prove that the birther claim has any legitimacy beyond Obama being black.

[QUOTE=Paramud;51538364]How about you prove that the birther claim has any legitimacy beyond Obama being black.[/QUOTE] Why? People make unjustified political and personal claims all the time. Racism isn't the default explanation. You have two sides that want the other side to lose, and will do almost anything to see that happen. Racism isn't required as an explanation. The fact that the argument was also brought against McCain shows that there are non-racial motivations available.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51538356]No, I'm not missing the point. I have no obligation to prove anything at all unless you first provide proof that it was based on racism.[/QUOTE] Mate I'm not arguing about obligation, I'm talking about what is possible. I'm starting to feel more and more vindicated by my "detached from reality" comment because you're not getting what I'm saying [I]at all[/I]. So let me reiterate a second time: is it possible for you to prove your claim, and is it possible for me to prove mine? Can you envision a scenario where you give me unquestionable evidence that racism did not play a part in this, or one where I give unquestionable evidence of the contrary? Are either of those situations possible? Is there a shred of evidence to either side that can't be endlessly debated and interpreted differently, regardless of the reality of the situation, and how precise those interpretations are? I'm not really up for another round of your unrelenting obliviousness, so I'll answer it for you: No

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51538392]Mate I'm not arguing about obligation, I'm talking about what is possible. I'm starting to feel more and more vindicated by my "detached from reality" comment because you're not getting what I'm saying [I]at all[/I]. So let me reiterate a second time: is it possible for you to prove your claim, and is it possible for me to prove mine? Can you envision a scenario where you give me unquestionable evidence that racism did not play a part in this, or one where I give unquestionable evidence of the contrary? Are either of those situations possible? I'm not really up for another round of your unrelenting obliviousness, so I'll answer it for you: No[/QUOTE] I really do get what you're saying. The problem is that it's nonsense. If you aren't able to prove that it's racism, then you lose. You haven't sustained your burden of proof. If I'm not able to prove that it is isn't racism, then... It doesn't matter because I'm not required to prove anything as I'm not making the positive claim. You're falsely pretending that we are on equal footing here, but we aren't. If you can't provide evidence, then the appropriate response is to ignore your claim completely.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51538372]Why? People make unjustified political and personal claims all the time. Racism isn't the default explanation. You have two sides that want the other side to lose, and will do almost anything to see that happen. Racism isn't required as an explanation.[/QUOTE] From the very start the birther movement has existed due to racism. The surface of it is that Obama is black, therefore he is not American and unable to be president. I cannot emphasize this point enough, to these people, they cannot believe that a black man born in the US is American. Despite Obama already releasing his certificate this stupid theory continues unabated because people can't stand the idea of a black man in his position. The man in the OP of this very thread apparently has a deep history of systematic racism himself. Did we see this winning strategy preformed to previous white presidents too? Because according to you it's a common strategy from the partisan state of US politics and not just some racist tosh. To deny that the birther movement exists because of racism is to simply deny reality. [quote]The fact that the argument was also brought against McCain shows that there are non-racial motivations available.[/QUOTE] He was born on a US military base, it was a very legitimate question to ask. What is not legitimate is insisting that Obama was born in Kenya.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51538372]Why?[/QUOTE] Well probably to show people that your beliefs aren't based in racism but I guess if that's not a problem for you you can keep dancing around the issue.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51538406]I really do get what you're saying. The problem is that it's nonsense. If you aren't able to prove that it's racism, then you lose. You haven't sustained your burden of proof. [B]If I'm not able to prove that it is isn't racism, then... It doesn't matter[/B] because I'm not required to prove anything as I'm not making the positive claim. You're falsely pretending that we are on equal footing here, but we aren't. If you can't provide evidence, then the appropriate response is to ignore your claim completely.[/QUOTE] It wouldn't really matter to your high school debate club, maybe. But in the real world, racial tensions are a real thing, and real people have opinions on it that affect real issues. And if your only response to these concerns is to wash your hands and go textbook mode so that you don't *actually* have to address anything, don't be surprised if those people don't flock to your side

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51538310]prove to me that racism has nothing to do with this, and i will prove to you it does[/QUOTE] No, you should prove the claim, he cant 'not' prove the claim. Its just politics and using any angle you can.

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51538459]No, you should prove the claim, he cant 'not' prove the claim. Its just politics and using any angle you can.[/QUOTE] bit late man

[QUOTE=Omesh;51538278]Watched the video a bit. The most interesting point for me, if I understood it correctly, was that there are two boxes with stamps (by hand) that both match in angle and everything between those documents, according to this guy. Then some stuff about relative distance between points matching. I think it would be best to actually encourage some other party to check their claims. Then maybe it could be a done deal. What does saying racism help with, feels like an instant discredited topic like arguing about holocaust details.[/QUOTE] Not really, it's bollocks. The form is filled mostly by typewriter, so of course relative positions of the upper parts match to each other. The part about stamp angles matching is so much a red herring it's not even funny. Of course you're going to find "good enough" match if you go through hundreds of certificates. Notice that the part of video "showing" the similarities is bollocks, the way it's made, both stamps overlayed with identical thick red lines indicating angle it's impossible to tell them apart and how close they are actually to each other except that the thick lines overlap. And that's disregarding the stamps themselves are so dissimlar they can't have been derivatives. Yes, I watched the videos because I tend to give the benefit of doubt. Very unconvincing. Sad!

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51538429]It wouldn't really matter to your high school debate club, maybe. But in the real world, racial tensions are a real thing, and real people have opinions on it that affect real issues. And if your only response to these concerns is to wash your hands and go textbook mode so that you don't *actually* have to address anything, don't be surprised if those people don't flock to your side[/QUOTE] You and I might be able to look at this in the context of Arpaio and the rhetoric surrounding the birther nonsense and recognize racial motivations, but if we can't convince others of that we aren't going to be able to solve these issues. sgman1's right in that there are compounding factors and other plausible explanations. If this wasn't a difficult issue to tackle we wouldn't have such a hard time figuring out how to draw up boundaries between electoral districts, how to tackle racial profiling and institutional violence, and dozens of other issues. I don't have a good answer of how to deal with this. I don't think society does either. Regardless, this whole 'press conference' is garbage.

Blows my mind that this was even a thing past 2008, but maybe it shouldn't. He popped out of an American cooch, end of story imo

[QUOTE=MadPro119;51537496]But your now ignoring their original point of relevant positioning.[/QUOTE] two people with birth cirtificates with matching information likely written in the same place with a typewriter formatted to fill out this type of sheet have items in corresponding positions, more at 11. Imagine how much time and effort potentially went into a random arizona sheriff's office dumping low res hawaiian birth cirtificates into photoshop to slowly drag random content around you'd think if the president of the united states wanted to forge a birth cirtificate he could just get a new one written up from scratch and call it a day instead of hastily photoshopping his name onto somebody else's.

Of course it's Trump supporters who can't understand how a fucking typewriter works, lmfao.

If anyone here actually watches the press conference in full, the guy compared two certificates from the same hospital from twins who were born minutes apart. The certificates were stamped and filled out back-to-back and they're very different. As of right now, I don't think anyone aside from r/the_donald users are asking for legal action against Obama. But it is interesting and should be enough to be sent off to the FBI's fraud department and picked apart down to the individual dots of ink on the page to be certain. He also brought up that we need a better security system for new birth certificates because it actually is easy to forge one if you can get someone to put a copy of the forgery into the state's database and records. But in Arizona there's a couple security strips in the certificate paper that are directly tied to the serial on the top of the page, so forging is effectively impossible unless you get a blank sheet of this paper. Also I have to ask, to those who are bringing up the typewriter stuff, do you have a single source to back that up?

[QUOTE=zombini;51538759]If anyone here actually watches the press conference in full, the guy compared two certificates from the same hospital from twins who were born minutes apart. The certificates were stamped and filled out back-to-back and they're very different. As of right now, I don't think anyone aside from r/the_donald users are asking for legal action against Obama. But it is interesting and should be enough to be sent off to the FBI's fraud department and picked apart down to the individual dots of ink on the page to be certain. He also brought up that we need a better security system for new birth certificates because it actually is easy to forge one if you can get someone to put a copy of the forgery into the state's database and records. But in Arizona there's a couple security strips in the certificate paper that are directly tied to the serial on the top of the page, so forging is effectively impossible unless you get a blank sheet of this paper. [B] Also I have to ask, to those who are bringing up the typewriter stuff, do you have a single source to back that up?[/B][/QUOTE] Excuse me if I'm grossly misinterpreting this particular line but are you seriously asking for a source proving that people used office typewriters in the sixties? [editline]16th December 2016[/editline] I mean seriously, typewriters have been in widespread use for filling out documents like this from the late nineteenth century up to [I]today[/I] The fuck else were they gonna use for such neat, consistent block lettering? [editline]Hyenas[/editline] Maybe it's belaboring the point but during the sixties you could land a job literally just by knowing how to use a typewriter, there was a point in time where entire office blocks were dedicated to nothing but people with desks and typewriters doing menial data entry work just like the sort involved in filling out birth certificates Before the widespread availability of personal computers they were basically the only way to get that kind of data entry done quickly, consistently, and efficiently, and that wouldn't be until the eighties