Paid 'Menstrual Leave' For Women: Special Treatment Or A Necessary Benefit? - Polidicks

if anyone thinks this is a feasible idea, you have not worked anyone disagreeing with the people in this thread saying "why would anyone hire women if this was true" does not understand how seriously sick leave and such is taken [editline]21st May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;44869020]Do you think maternal leave should be abolished, requiring women to take sick days, and paternal leave be abolished with no option for time off at all?[/QUOTE] comparing a monthly occurrence to something that occurs maybe once or twice in a lifetime for most people terrible comparison

This is one of those things that needs to be handled on a case by case basis if menstruation is particularly bad for a woman People probably blow this out of proportion, the embarrassment for having to leave work by openly declaring you're in painful/irritable menstruation is probably enough to dissuade most women from abusing it frequently to get time off

I really don't know what to think on this, for a lot of women cramps go away quickly after you take some paracetamol but I've met more than one girl who became completely paralysed by pain during their periods. So in some extreme cases it makes sense I think.

This already happens in quite a few companies. I deal with logged absences for this kinda thing and their Income protection schemes cover it, Plus you get the benefits of logging it so recurring issues can be picked up to check if there is a health problem.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;44869346]My disability is something I was also born with, but I wouldn't get any extras sick days because of it.[/QUOTE] that sounds very unfair. there needs to be quite a bit of revision with this country's disability policies imo

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;44869055]Paternal/Maternal leave is a slightly different thing,for a start, it's hardly an illness, you get it for a few months, not say 5 days a month 12 times a year, plus it's also contributing to society as a whole (or rather the future.)[/QUOTE] One could easily argue that pregnancy is a choice and that women should consider their career before getting pregnant (and men should do the same before getting someone pregnant), whereas menstruation is a biological certainty that can't be avoided. If I wanted to be a pain in the ass, and a total asshole, I could argue for menstrual leave and against parental leave on biology alone. But there comes a point where utilitarianism falls flat on its face and compassion should be the guiding principle, so I'd argue that menstrual leave is just as reasonable as parental leave.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;44869538]One could easily argue that pregnancy is a choice and that women should consider their career before getting pregnant (and men should do the same before getting someone pregnant), whereas menstruation is a biological certainty that can't be avoided. If I wanted to be a pain in the ass, and a total asshole, I could argue for menstrual leave and against parental leave on biology alone. But there comes a point where utilitarianism falls flat on its face and compassion should be the guiding principle, so I'd argue that menstrual leave is just as reasonable as parental leave.[/QUOTE] The bigger problem is that it will bias against women. Maternal leave already does so against women. I agree with the Huffpost about more paid leave instead of specific paid circumstances, however stupid the 'if a man gets kicked in the nuts its a medical issue' was.

Should men be allowed shorter work days, based on their own daily hormornal cycles?

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;44868815]So if I get heavily ill for a few days every month I can go get fucked?[/QUOTE] Unless you live in Scandinavia with the world's most comprehensive welfare system, then most likely.

What about people who get frequent migraines? Or have inflammatory bowel disease? Or people prone to herpes infections? Or chronic back pain that becomes too much to work with at times? Why treat menstruation differently? If the cramps etc are so bad that you can't work then you are simply ill and should take a sick day.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;44869538]One could easily argue that pregnancy is a choice and that women should consider their career before getting pregnant (and men should do the same before getting someone pregnant), whereas menstruation is a biological certainty that can't be avoided. If I wanted to be a pain in the ass, and a total asshole, I could argue for menstrual leave and against parental leave on biology alone. But there comes a point where utilitarianism falls flat on its face and compassion should be the guiding principle, so I'd argue that menstrual leave is just as reasonable as parental leave.[/QUOTE] Parental leave however should, and in many countries is, equally implemented and accessible for both men and women.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;44869538]One could easily argue that pregnancy is a choice and that women should consider their career before getting pregnant (and men should do the same before getting someone pregnant), whereas menstruation is a biological certainty that can't be avoided. If I wanted to be a pain in the ass, and a total asshole, I could argue for menstrual leave and against parental leave on biology alone. But there comes a point where utilitarianism falls flat on its face and compassion should be the guiding principle, so I'd argue that menstrual leave is just as reasonable as parental leave.[/QUOTE] Pregnancy is a choice (for most), but as I said before, happens once or twice for the vast majority of people if you are saying that people should get paid leave for monthly menstrual pains, then you should be giving paid leave to far more than just that - anyone with any form of chronic pain. While this sounds great and lovely, people will just not hire women who are hampered by it, or people suffering from conditions that give chronic pain it is totally unfeasible, and will lead to discrimination.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;44869965] it is totally unfeasible, and will lead to discrimination.[/QUOTE] And we don't need more of that

I'd say this is fine as long as they're required to get a doctor's note to prove it's bad enough that they require the time off. I've heard some women have periods so bad they literally have to go to the hospital when they happen, so I imagine jobs are a bit of a problem for them

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44868383]If they aren't feeling well enough to work, it should be treated as any other sickness.[/QUOTE] Agreed, as long as they're using their own earned Sick Leave.

Can I say no without being called sexist?

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44868367]Maternity/Paternity? Illness? People don't suddenly cease having bills to pay when they stop being able to work for a while.[/QUOTE] maternity leave is way way different then menstrual leave though

I've dated a girl for a while who had severe migraines as part of her period. They left her basically bedridden, I can see how "menstrual leave" could be reasonable in some circumstances.

[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;44868466]Sure! If I get to take a couple of days off to jerk off in the name of equality, this is a welcome move.[/QUOTE] [img]http://401ak47.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/zombie-baseball-bat-stick-with-nails.jpg[/img] It equates more to getting your balls smashed in with this thing every month. I don't know about you but if that happens to me I ain't gonna be doing shit for a while.

[QUOTE=Swilly;44869763]The bigger problem is that it will bias against women. Maternal leave already does so against women. I agree with the Huffpost about more paid leave instead of specific paid circumstances, however stupid the 'if a man gets kicked in the nuts its a medical issue' was.[/QUOTE] The solution for parental leave causing bias in employment would be for the government to mandate that all employers provide paid leave to both parents. Ideally as a pool that both parents can decide to divide up as they see fit. Menstrual leave could be handled similarly. I'd be fine with it requiring sick days if there were also a mandated minimum number of sick days for all employees.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;44870670]The solution for parental leave causing bias in employment would be for the government to mandate that all employers provide paid leave to both parents. Ideally as a pool that both parents can decide to divide up as they see fit. Menstrual leave could be handled similarly. I'd be fine with it requiring sick days if there were also a mandated minimum number of sick days for all employees.[/QUOTE] We were actually close to incorporating forced paternal leave for both parties, can't really remember why that idea was abandoned.

[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;44870619]I've dated a girl for a while who had severe migraines as part of her period. They left her basically bedridden, I can see how "menstrual leave" could be reasonable in some circumstances.[/QUOTE] That is not normal, did she ever go to a doctor about it?

[QUOTE=Zeke129;44870670]The solution for parental leave causing bias in employment would be for the government to mandate that all employers provide paid leave to both parents. Ideally as a pool that both parents can decide to divide up as they see fit. Menstrual leave could be handled similarly. I'd be fine with it requiring sick days if there were also a mandated minimum number of sick days for all employees.[/QUOTE] Men don't have to carry a baby to work when their wife is pregnant. They can still work perfectly fine. I'm all for equality, but there is one fundamental difference between men and women: women can get pregnant. And that sole reason makes them instantly less desirable to hire than men, and the terrible problem is that the two sexes will never be equal. A man who's wife gets pregnant can get their career pushed back a few years, but a women who gets pregnant can have their career stagnate from maternity leave. There really is no winning in this.

How about we give men 5 days off per month, too? I don't see that going well with US employers, but it could possibly work in some European countries. Would probably have to cut off some time from some other spot though, in Finland I'm thinking it would work by reducing the summer vacation by 2-4 weeks. The unions and other organizations can go rip their hairs out trying to work that part out. The annoying part here is that not all women aren't afflicted, so a reasonable argument could be made for it being a special thing. I would support investing tax money into research on how to either completely avoid, or mitigate, this problem.

necessary, because it hurts, every single month, and it's the worst thing for a lot of chicks and is really really hard to function in any situation

you know it just occured to me if a woman's out on menstrual every month, someone else needs to fill in for her this could create a lot of jobs

"What about people with [thing]?" Well yeah, I think if you feel like you're being tortured due to pain brought on by chronic illness or a disorder or something, your employer should try their best to accommodate for you.

[QUOTE=lavacano;44870857]you know it just occured to me if a woman's out on menstrual every month, someone else needs to fill in for her this could create a lot of jobs[/QUOTE] Not really.

[QUOTE=kyle877;44868400] Menstrual leave would be every month. That kinda shit adds up on a company level, and would just be an example of privileging one gender over the other. Unless guys get Football leave, or something...[/QUOTE] Hello Facepunch. Just wanted to make sure you guys understood that "kyle877" just compared the time a woman goes through painful menstrual cramps to going to a football game.

[QUOTE=lavacano;44870657][img]http://401ak47.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/zombie-baseball-bat-stick-with-nails.jpg[/img] It equates more to getting your balls smashed in with this thing every month. I don't know about you but if that happens to me I ain't gonna be doing shit for a while.[/QUOTE] Ouch, I did not realise periods disfigured, sterilized, and possibly killed you!