• What’s Obama’s Record on Gun Control?
    72 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;38874888]Don't argue with emotion, especially with emotions that are entirely hypothetical. Not only is it just padding for a weak argument, but it's a disrespect to people who actually when through these tragedies to use them as a way to further your agenda. Yeah the choice is obvious and you're not making it. Are you looking at the big picture here? 20 people dying out of 85 million is incredibly low number. It [B][U][I]practically[/I][/U][/B] never happens. completely removing the problem is next to impossible. Illegal guns are extremely easy/cheap to obtain and if you don't want to buy one you can just make your own. If you think the total amount of people dying is what really matters, then you should be looking at the looming threat of peanuts instead of guns. Otherwise your priorities are out of whack with up to 100% more people dying from them a year than school shootings. Before you go ANY further, you should remember that AWBs don't have any sort of negligible effect on gun crime which this thread is all about. So go ahead, renew the AWB and if you want to be fair ban swimming, driving, peanuts with the rest of an endless list of things that are both extremely small threats to us but still a much larger threat than school shootings.[/QUOTE] But even if illegal guns are easy to obtain, why shouldn't we try to make it any more difficult?And even if the gun is obtained legally doesn't make it unable to use for illegal activities. the whole "WHY BAN GUNS WHEN OTHER STUFF KILLS MORE" is also bullshit. Since the other occurences are accidents. I am sure more people are killed by peanuts. Which is absolutely retarded to use as a rebuttal. Peanuts aren't sold as weapons, they arent designed to kill people. It's all accidents that happen. Do you not see your own absurdity in your "arguments" (ad hominem xdxdxd). I live in Sweden, we have strict gun control and I cant recall a school shooting or any other massacre EVER having happened here. And I know you can get illegal firearms too. But it's VERY obvious that a tight control of firearms is very effective against lowering rates of school shootings and somesuch. Regarding norway and breivik, his bodycount doesn't even come close to the combined bodycount of what happens in America in one day. And besides what he did, i cant remember any other massacres happening in norway. While it is very tragic, the extreme rarity of these things actually happening proves that gun control STILL works better than letting anyone have a firearm.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38874952]But even if illegal guns are easy to obtain, why shouldn't we try to make it any more difficult?And even if the gun is obtained legally doesn't make it unable to use for illegal activities. the whole "WHY BAN GUNS WHEN OTHER STUFF KILLS MORE" is also bullshit. Since the other occurences are accidents. I am sure more people are killed by peanuts. Which is absolutely retarded to use as a rebuttal. Peanuts aren't sold as weapons, they arent designed to kill people. It's all accidents that happen. Do you not see your own absurdity in your "arguments" (ad hominem xdxdxd). I live in Sweden, we have strict gun control and I cant recall a school shooting or any other massacre EVER having happened here. And I know you can get illegal firearms too. But it's VERY obvious that a tight control of firearms is very effective against lowering rates of school shootings and somesuch. Regarding norway and breivik, his bodycount doesn't even come close to the combined bodycount of what happens in America in one week. And besides what he did, i cant remember any other massacres happening in norway. While it is very tragic, the extreme rarity of these things actually happening proves that gun control STILL works better than letting anyone have a firearm.[/QUOTE] I can go right now to any hardware store, pick up $4 worth of pipe, and build a gun out of it. I've done it before (and it's perfectly legal) there's no such thing as controlling guns, your only option is to control poverty and mental health. good mental healthcare and low poverty are the reason there aren't any mass shootings in norway, not gun control
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38875005]I can go right now to any hardware store, pick up $4 worth of pipe, and build a gun out of it. I've done it before (and it's perfectly legal) there's no such thing as controlling guns[/QUOTE] If you were living in a country were guns are under strict control, how are you supposed to get ammo to fire it? A gun with no ammo is harmless.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875008]If you were living in a country were guns are under strict control, how are you supposed to get ammo to fire it? A gun with no ammo is harmless.[/QUOTE] not anymore harmless than a knife with no ammo
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38875016]not anymore harmless than a knife with no ammo[/QUOTE] I assume you mean, as harmless as a knife without a blade, yes?
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875008]If you were living in a country were guns are under strict control, how are you supposed to get ammo to fire it? [/QUOTE] If we're going with ButtsexV3's contraption, I found a pointy rock once and that thing could probably throw it pretty hard. Or anything sharp.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875008]If you were living in a country were guns are under strict control, how are you supposed to get ammo to fire it? A gun with no ammo is harmless.[/QUOTE] Ammo isn't all that hard to make
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875008]If you were living in a country were guns are under strict control, how are you supposed to get ammo to fire it? A gun with no ammo is harmless.[/QUOTE] You'd be surprised how easy ammo is to make.
[QUOTE=download;38875140]Ammo isn't all that hard to make[/QUOTE] Yeah, if you want a gun that jams after one shot.
[QUOTE=download;38875140]Ammo isn't all that hard to make[/QUOTE] You sneaky devil you... :v: [editline]18th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875143]Yeah, if you want a gun that jams after one shot.[/QUOTE] People make their own ammo all the time. It works just as well as the manufactured stuff.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;38875148]You sneaky devil you... :v: [editline]18th December 2012[/editline] People make their own ammo all the time. It works just as well as the manufactured stuff.[/QUOTE] Not everyone has access to a metal workshop to create such things anyway.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875163]Not everyone has access to a metal workshop to create such things anyway.[/QUOTE] All you really need is sheet metal, a projectile, a dremel, and anything combustible. Now, that would be rather crude, but it'd probably work.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875163]Not everyone has access to a metal workshop to create such things anyway.[/QUOTE] All you need is an ammo press, its a fairly common setup
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;38875179]All you need is an ammo press, its a fairly common setup[/QUOTE] Technically, all you need is something to act as a casing, a projectile, and a propellant.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;38875182]I have a feeling that fat doesn't really know what he's talking about.[/QUOTE] At least I dont have to worry about being gunned down in a school shooting.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875196]At least I dont have to worry about being gunned down in a school shooting.[/QUOTE] You should probably stop before you make an ass of yourself
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;38875188]Technically, all you need is something to act as a casing, a projectile, and a propellant.[/QUOTE] How are you gonna create a casing which wont have the primer and explosive fall out without a metal lathe or a welding machine? Because you know, metal tubing tends to not be capped off at the end. Duct tape?
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875239]How are you gonna create a casing which wont have the primer and explosive fall out without a metal lathe or a welding machine? Because you know, metal tubing tends to not be capped off at the end. Duct tape?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Kartoffel;38875174]All you really need is sheet metal, a projectile, a dremel, and anything combustible. Now, that would be rather crude, but it'd probably work.[/QUOTE] [editline]18th December 2012[/editline] You can probably create a simple gun that makes a spark that ignites the combustible substance, creating the necessary force to propel the projectile.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;38875254][/QUOTE] So are you just gonna fold the sheet metal with your hands and hope it becomes round enough to fit into a gun? You still need expensive equipment to just create the weapon itself.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875143]Yeah, if you want a gun that jams after one shot.[/QUOTE] I make my own 12 gauge ammo and it works great [editline]18th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875271]So are you just gonna fold the sheet metal with your hands and hope it becomes round enough to fit into a gun? You still need expensive equipment to just create the weapon itself.[/QUOTE] just pound out a rough shape and swage it, it's not hard
All the welding machines, blowtorches, and all equipment that you would have to use to just create a gun makes it probably cheaper to just get the gun off the black market, criminals constructing their guns is a non-issue unless they mass-produce their arms and sell them to other criminals.
fatfatfatty you're forcing me to agree with pro-gun people please know shit about what you argue before you start arguing it
[QUOTE=thisispain;38875297]fatfatfatty you're forcing me to agree with pro-gun people please know shit about what you argue before you start arguing it[/QUOTE] This is a dark day indeed. [i]What have we done!?[/i]
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;38875096]That would be great point if you weren't grossly over simplifying the conditions of a country vastly different to your own. So a larger total body count is entirely meaningless just because of the reason why someone died? If something causes more deaths than another factor then it IS a larger threat to lives. It doesn't matter what the original intent of the products seller was, peanuts technically CAN be used as a weapon (poison) against people with the corresponding allergy. It might not happen very often, but neither does people dying in school shootings. This can also be applied to chemicals easily accessible to to the general populace that are used to make improvised explosives that have been used in several shootings/terrorist attacks. If you were wondering what I was talking about when I said mentioned people making their own weapons, take a look at the BSP SMG. [img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/BSP_SchematicSm.jpg[/img] This little fucker is largely made of pipes and thin bits of thin sheet metal. Neither of these things were intended to be weapons. To answer your question about illegal firearms being easy to obtain, the fact is there IS an effort to remove illegal weapons from the black market. It's just that doing so is a slow and inefficient. There's millions of firearms out in the US and trying to weed out the illegal ones in a country MUCH larger than your own, with a population much more spread out is a lot harder than disarming the people of Sweden.[/QUOTE] This reminds me of that gun control thread where someone posted a link to a guide on how to build a fully automatic 9mm SMG with an 18 round magazine, using simple tools and metal you can find at any sizable hardware store. [editline]18th December 2012[/editline] I'd go look for it again, but I don't want to end up on an FBI watch list somewhere :v:
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38875271]So are you just gonna fold the sheet metal with your hands and hope it becomes round enough to fit into a gun? You still need expensive equipment to just create the weapon itself.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/179192-DIY-Shovel-AK-photo-tsunami-warning!]Dude makes an AK-47 out of a shovel[/url]
[QUOTE=Ridge;38877170][url=http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/179192-DIY-Shovel-AK-photo-tsunami-warning!]Dude makes an AK-47 out of a shovel[/url][/QUOTE] He uses other parts as well. Not to mention the main argument for pro gun control is that it prevents accidents and impulse shootings, not planning it out.
[QUOTE=Zally13;38887011]He uses other parts as well. Not to mention the main argument for pro gun control is that it prevents accidents and impulse shootings, not planning it out.[/QUOTE] it would take like 2 hours tops to dremel out AK bits from a piece of metal khyber pass guys do it all the time
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38887083]it would take like 2 hours tops to dremel out AK bits from a piece of metal khyber pass guys do it all the time[/QUOTE] I don't think somebody without experience in making/modifying guns will turn a shovel into a fully functional rifle in about 2 hours. Like, an impulse shooter isn't going to spend all that time making a rifle and then using it. He's going to find the nearest gun possible and then shoot up the place as soon as possible.
[QUOTE=3noneTwo;38873771]For starters, other countries don't exactly advertise guns in a manner that links them with overt masculinity. [url=https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/status/280711110485762048][img]http://i.imgur.com/IFQHU.jpg[/img][/url][/QUOTE] Your pulling an advertisement out of a magazine that is specifically targeted towards men. It isn't like they advertise this shit on TV every 15 minutes.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38887083]it would take like 2 hours tops to dremel out AK bits from a piece of metal khyber pass guys do it all the time[/QUOTE] Right, okay, a depressed kid is going to shoot himself by making an AK47 out of a shovel. Sounds reasonable.
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