Palestinian teen activist could face years in prison after slapping an Israeli soldier - Polidicks

[QUOTE=_Axel;52995004]I find it deeply concerning that religious propaganda is so strong that they would believe that their ancestors living there thousands of years ago somehow entitles them to the land today.[/QUOTE] The people who came up with Zionism were secular, they almost got Uganda as a Jewish state. Israel was established in the area where it is now because the British offered support in 1918, there were a lot of Jews living there already, and the world felt bad for the Jews so they voted to recognize israel

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52995075]The people who came up with Zionism were secular, they almost got Uganda as a Jewish state. Israel was established in the area where it is now because the British offered support in 1918, there were a lot of Jews living there already, and the world felt bad for the Jews so they voted to recognize israel[/QUOTE] They also owned a [I]lot [/I]of land in British mandated Palestine. Israel wasn't founded on sheer Zionist magic, most of the area the country would've gotten if it wasn't for the 47-48 war of independence was already completely under Jewish control. The Arabs went through the gamble of going to war and got the short end of the stick. It's the 67 war's territorial conquests that are more murky.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52995075]The people who came up with Zionism were secular, they almost got Uganda as a Jewish state. Israel was established in the area where it is now because the British offered support in 1918, there were a lot of Jews living there already, and the world felt bad for the Jews so they voted to recognize israel[/QUOTE] You're contradicting yourself. Do zionists specifically want the land where they ancestors supposedly lived thousands of years ago, which happens to include Jerusalem, or would they have been satisfied with taking over Uganda? Let's not even get into the whole "that state should be one where Jews have control of the government". Imagine if people started claiming white Christians should be in control of a state's government and nobody took issue with that.

Assault someone, especially a peace officer or soldier, as well as having a history of doing similar stupid shit, would probably get you arrested and imprisoned in most countries. I don't really see a problem here.

[QUOTE=_Axel;52995143]You're contradicting yourself. Do zionists specifically want the land where they ancestors supposedly lived thousands of years ago, which happens to include Jerusalem, or would they have been satisfied with taking over Uganda? Let's not even get into the whole "that state should be one where Jews have control of the government". Imagine if people started claiming white Christians should be in control of a state's government and nobody took issue with that.[/QUOTE] They preferred the land where their ancestors lived but were willing to compromise and take Uganda. Your comparison of a Jewish state with a white Christian run state is a bad comparison. First, Jewish in this case means the ethnic groups that traditionally practice Judaism, not a religious government. Second, white Christians don't have the history of prosecution that Jews have. Third, Israel allows and encourages non Jewish people to participate in the government, non Jews have a voice in Israel.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52994920][video]https://youtube.com/watch?v=JKkCgpKk4SI[/video] [video]https://youtube.com/watch?v=6TP-V8kImAU[/video] The Palestinians make a whole propaganda industry around sending their kids to try to get hurt by israelis and then claiming that the israelis target children. Look at the second video, the kid runs into the car's path and then it's framed as the driver chose to run over the kid. Also, count the cameras. I understand your point about everyone carrying a smartphone camera but 3 people carrying around a DSLR camera is suspicious[/QUOTE] That's disgusting i agree but still, Israel's soldiers have nothing to do in here. All of this can stop if the soldiers leave the occupied territories

IMO, she should've either been detained on the spot or let go of. Sending an entire team to arrest her at her at nighttime seems excessive - it's the kind of treatment you'd use against a terrorist, not some violent protester. Not that I don't agree that she deserves to be punished, but it's important to link the punishment to the action, and doing it in hindsight doesn't paint Israel in good light.("violent protester detained after scratching and slapping soldiers" vs "cute/brave Palestinian blonde taken from her home at night")

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52995179]Third, Israel allows and encourages non Jewish people to participate in the government, non Jews have a voice in Israel.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;eDUC4hjtHPw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDUC4hjtHPw[/video] When i see what the police did to a jew, i can imagine what they'll do to a non Jewish

You are required by Israeli law to carry an ID on you at all times. Why didn't he show them his passport? Not to justify their massively overblown reaction, but really, why didn't he show them his passport? "I have a right to be here!" is the same as saying "I'm a sovereign citizen, you can't arrest me!". It's meaningless. The least you can do when the cops are already on edge what with the whole terrorism thing during a big event in a troubled city is not be completely uncooperative.

[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;52995265]That's disgusting i agree but still, Israel's soldiers have nothing to do in here. All of this can stop if the soldiers leave the occupied territories[/QUOTE] You mean like in Gaza?

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;52995393]You mean like in Gaza?[/QUOTE] Aren't Gaza and the West Bank technically two separate governments? Hamas in Gaza and PLO in the West Bank? I mean I know they sign treaties with each other, but is Hamas really a problem in the West Bank? {edit} You know, reading into it, I'm barely even reading anything about rocket attacks coming from West Bank, it seems they all come from Gaza, with some exceptions.

[QUOTE=Megadave;52995433]Aren't Gaza and the West Bank technically two separate governments? Hamas in Gaza and PLO in the West Bank? I mean I know they sign treaties with each other, but is Hamas really a problem in the West Bank?[/QUOTE] Yes. Hamas has a controlling majority in the Palestinian parliament and while it's suspended, when Abbas dies, it'll come back and Hamas will essentially control the Palestinian government.

-Im a horrible merger-

[QUOTE=Megadave;52995433]Aren't Gaza and the West Bank technically two separate governments? Hamas in Gaza and PLO in the West Bank? I mean I know they sign treaties with each other, but is Hamas really a problem in the West Bank?[/QUOTE] What I mean is that Israel has already tried unilaterally retreating once, in the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza"]Gaza strip in 2005[/URL]. Pulled out all the troops, relocated every single settler back into Israel, even left the settlements and farms to the Palestinians as a gesture of good will. The result was a violent military coup where [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)"]Hamas took over from the Palestinian Authority[/URL] and started attacking Israeli cities across the border with hundreds of rockets every day, forcing both Israel and Egypt to enforce a [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip"]blockade on the entire strip[/URL].

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;52995479]What I mean is that Israel has already tried unilaterally retreating once, in the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza"]Gaza strip in 2005[/URL]. Pulled out all the troops, relocated every single settler back into Israel, even left the settlements and farms to the Palestinians as a gesture of good will. The result was a violent military coup where [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)"]Hamas took over from the Palestinian Authority[/URL] and started attacking Israeli cities across the border with hundreds of rockets every day, forcing both Israel and Egypt to enforce a [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip"]blockade on the entire strip[/URL].[/QUOTE] From reading that it looks like it all boiled down to an extreme breakdown in security and Fatah was forced out of Gaza, then Hamas goes crazy. If the PLO can maintain security at a decent rate, and assist Israel in clearing out Hamas, I don't see any reason why a withdrawal wouldn't be possible. Either way Hamas is the obvious stick in the mud here.

[QUOTE=Megadave;52995553]From reading that it looks like it all boiled down to an extreme breakdown in security and Fatah was forced out of Gaza, then Hamas goes crazy. If the PLO can maintain security at a decent rate, and assist Israel in clearing out Hamas, I don't see any reason why a withdrawal wouldn't be possible. Either way Hamas is the obvious stick in the mud here.[/QUOTE] Hamas has the support of most Palestinians, which is why the Palestinian Authority hasn't had an election since Gaza. Right now Fatah pretty much depends on Israel to keep Hamas at bay.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;52995572]Hamas has the support of most Palestinians, which is why the Palestinian Authority hasn't had an election since Gaza. Right now Fatah pretty much depends on Israel to keep Hamas at bay.[/QUOTE] Now, in that case, wouldn't Israel's mission be to gain the support of Palestinians? Wouldn't continuing building settlements negate that mission?

[QUOTE=Megadave;52995589]Now, in that case, wouldn't Israel's mission be to gain the support of Palestinians? Wouldn't continuing building settlements negate that mission?[/QUOTE] You'd think that but Israel is sadly on a consistent course of right radicalization, both in the government and the populace. Personally I think there are too many people who stand to benefit from the conflict continuing, on both sides, for peace talks to ever accomplish anything. This goes for both Netanyahu's administration and Abbas, both of whom are long long overdue for retirement.

[QUOTE=Bertie;52995596]You'd think that but Israel is sadly on a consistent course of right radicalization, both in the government and the populace. Personally I think there are too many people who stand to benefit from the conflict continuing, on both sides, for peace talks to ever accomplish anything. This goes for both Netanyahu's administration and Abbas, both of whom are long long overdue for retirement.[/QUOTE] I think it's even dumber than that. Israel just had a really long run of failed attempts at anything that could lead to peace: Rabin and Barak's peace plans that went as far as offering Jerusalem as part of the package (led to the second Intifada and a decade of suicide bombings), Sharon's unilateral retreat from Gaza (led to the rise of Hamas and a decade of rocket attacks on Israeli cities) and even Netanyahu's freezing of all building in the settlements and the release of thousands of convicted terrorists which led to, well, where we are now I guess. Most Israelis (present company not included) have just grown cynical about the whole peace thing. They think the way things are the only way it can ever be, so they keep electing leaders that are tough on terrorism and all that bullshit. Thing is, Netanyahu isn't a dude with a very solid world view. He'll just as easily support a racist, nationalistic policy as he'd try out peace talks if he'd think it would work. But as more and more Israelis become disillusioned with the major parties, and the Israeli vote becomes continuously fragmented between lots and lots of smaller parties, Netanyahu finds himself leading a shrunken party and a tiny majority coalition of crooks and Settlers and Ultra Orthodox parties, forcing him to appease that shitty side of the political map. Which leaves us stuck circling the drain with things getting more and more terrible for everyone, yet people believing more and more we need the biggest assholes in charge to stay on top. Svinnik, you're in active service now, right? So you probably don't remember what we used to call the "euphoria", back in the 90s when the peace process was going strong, when it really looked like we were going to end this conflict with everyone satisfied, when we were suddenly making friends all over the planet with countries that wouldn't touch us with a stick before, and all the big international companies were flowing in. We didn't have McDonalds and Pepsi and Dominos and Nescafe before the peace process started. Just local stuff. You don't remember what hope feels like. Most people don't. Israelis and Palestinians. That's why we're mostly okay with just killing each other over the pettiest bullshit instead of taking the last few steps to settling this godawful feud already. Because we're all idiots.

Continuing separation and ethnic cleansing because of some fairy tales. So sad, and its absolutely disgusting that our "president" decided to throw more fuel into the fire.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;52995704]I think it's even dumber than that. Israel just had a really long run of failed attempts at anything that could lead to peace: Rabin and Barak's peace plans that went as far as offering Jerusalem as part of the package (led to the second Intifada and a decade of suicide bombings), Sharon's unilateral retreat from Gaza (led to the rise of Hamas and a decade of rocket attacks on Israeli cities) and even Netanyahu's freezing of all building in the settlements and the release of thousands of convicted terrorists which led to, well, where we are now I guess. Most Israelis (present company not included) have just grown cynical about the whole peace thing. They think the way things are the only way it can ever be, so they keep electing leaders that are tough on terrorism and all that bullshit. Thing is, Netanyahu isn't a dude with a very solid world view. He'll just as easily support a racist, nationalistic policy as he'd try out peace talks if he'd think it would work. But as more and more Israelis become disillusioned with the major parties, and the Israeli vote becomes continuously fragmented between lots and lots of smaller parties, Netanyahu finds himself leading a shrunken party and a tiny majority coalition of crooks and Settlers and Ultra Orthodox parties, forcing him to appease that shitty side of the political map. Which leaves us stuck circling the drain with things getting more and more terrible for everyone, yet people believing more and more we need the biggest assholes in charge to stay on top. Svinnik, you're in active service now, right? So you probably don't remember what we used to call the "euphoria", back in the 90s when the peace process was going strong, when it really looked like we were going to end this conflict with everyone satisfied, when we were suddenly making friends all over the planet with countries that wouldn't touch us with a stick before, and all the big international companies were flowing in. We didn't have McDonalds and Pepsi and Dominos and Nescafe before the peace process started. Just local stuff. You don't remember what hope feels like. Most people don't. Israelis and Palestinians. That's why we're mostly okay with just killing each other over the pettiest bullshit instead of taking the last few steps to settling this godawful feud already. Because we're all idiots.[/QUOTE] I'm not in service, RZdat is. I'm considering national service.

I gotta say what a history considering in the article this girl has repeatedly been known to conflict with the IDF. [quote]They grow up angry, she added. Palestinians now see Ahed as a hero but that, Salah noted, puts any teenager under tremendous pressure. Ahed's parents have both encouraged youth activism, and it's not the first time Ahed has gone viral. In 2015, Ahed can be seen biting a soldier as he pins down her younger brother, then accused of throwing stones. And in 2012, she can be seen raising her fist toward an Isreali soldier.[/quote] [t]https://s.abcnews.com/images/International/ahed-tamimi-2015-gty-3-thg-171220_4x3_992.jpg[/t] [quote]Ahed Tamimi reacts to an Israeli soldier attempts to arrest a Palestinian kid during the clashes following a protest against expropriation of Palestinian land in the West Bank, Aug.28, 2015.[/quote] [t]https://s.abcnews.com/images/International/ahed-tamimi-gty-thg-171220_4x3_992.jpg[/t] [quote]A file photo from Nov.2, 2012 shows Palestinian girl Ahed al-Tamimi (C) challenging Israeli soldiers during a protest in Ramallah, West Bank.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Tudd;52995761]I gotta say what a history considering in the article this girl has repeatedly been known to conflict with the IDF. [/QUOTE] I want you to think for a second what kind of reaction you would have to these pictures if the kids were biting/punching literal Nazi's. I say this because considering the lives they are forced to live in, Israeli soldiers basically ARE Nazi's to them. I like how you post bad things happening as if that's supposed to sway anyone; only a few people get swayed by emotional appeals so easily.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52995761]I gotta say what a history considering in the article this girl has repeatedly been known to conflict with the IDF. [t]https://s.abcnews.com/images/International/ahed-tamimi-2015-gty-3-thg-171220_4x3_992.jpg[/t] [/QUOTE] I bet most people bitching about that picture neglect to see the kid pinned under the soldier.

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52995766]I want you to think for a second what kind of reaction you would have to these pictures if the kids were biting/punching literal Nazi's. I say this because considering the lives they are forced to live in, Israeli soldiers basically ARE Nazi's to them.[/quote] IDF soldiers are not Nazis and the comparison between the two is absurd. There are many ways to express vast disagreement with IDF policies and behaviors, but comparing them to Nazis makes you look extreme and disillusional. [quote] I like how you post bad things happening as if that's supposed to sway anyone; only a few people get swayed by emotional appeals so easily.[/QUOTE] I literally only posted what was already in the article. Are you actually upset I posted more context on this? You can takeaway from the details however you want.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52995757]I'm not in service, RZdat is. I'm considering national service.[/QUOTE] My bad. In my defense, you internet people all look the same to me.

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52995766]I want you to think for a second what kind of reaction you would have to these pictures if the kids were biting/punching literal Nazi's. I say this because considering the lives they are forced to live in, Israeli soldiers basically ARE Nazi's to them. I like how you post bad things happening as if that's supposed to sway anyone; only a few people get swayed by emotional appeals so easily.[/QUOTE] If they were Nazis, every member of that family would be executed by the side of the road.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52995821]If they were Nazis, every member of that family would be executed by the side of the road.[/QUOTE] The Nazi's didn't shoot every civilian of the countries they occupied. Most of Western Europe saw situations very similar to what Palestinians are seeing now.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52995866]The Nazi's didn't shoot every civilian of the countries they occupied. Most of Western Europe saw situations very similar to what Palestinians are seeing now.[/QUOTE] So Nazis spared people who attacked their soldiers?

[QUOTE=joost1120;52995866]The Nazi's didn't shoot every civilian of the countries they occupied. Most of Western Europe saw situations very similar to what Palestinians are seeing now.[/QUOTE] You mean, except for the rounding up and execution of millions of minorities and dissidents. There is that one little detail.