Normally I find Femen's antics fun and harmless ways to get attention to a serious issue, but grabbing a model and lifting up her skirt is just over the top.
[QUOTE=Crazy;42332218]Sorry, but FEMEN has ruined feminists as a whole. Sucks for those non-crazy feminists, but what can you do.[/QUOTE]
Not let a tiny fraction not representative of an entire movement cloud your perception?
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];42332622']Not let a tiny fraction not representative of an entire movement cloud your perception?[/QUOTE]
Individuals are not the problem. The general population is the one you need to convince otherwise. General population might think that FEMEN represents feminism as a whole and that is the real problem.
the negative image of feminism started in the 70s and didnt have shit to do with femen
image is controlled by media and institutions, and when you take the offensive against media and institutional ideas about women you will never win favour
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332344]i like how you throw an accusation of brain dysfunction yet fail to understand what the argument you were supposedly given was about.
many many strippers, especially ones in the not so sunny part of the world such as Russia are usually caught up in the international sex trafficking business.[/QUOTE]
And that's precisely why we should ban striptease entirely in another part of the world in a country that has no indication of such problems, right.
That sounds like even worse kind of brain dysfunction if you ask me.
[QUOTE=Crazy;42332218]Sorry, but FEMEN has ruined feminists as a whole. Sucks for those non-crazy feminists, but what can you do.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Crazy;42332218]Sorry, but[B] NSDAP[/B] has ruined [B]Germans[/B] as a whole. Sucks for those non-crazy Germans, but what can you do.[/QUOTE]
This is how you sound.
[QUOTE=gudman;42332643]And that's precisely why we should ban striptease entirely in another part of the world in a country that has no indication of such problems, right.
That sounds like even worse kind of brain dysfunction if you ask me.[/QUOTE]
regardless of your obviously flawed judgement on what is proper brain function, to say the issue of striptease, prostitution, and pornography are simply issues of what women can do with their bodies is ignorant and fails to understand those concepts as they relate to the world as a whole
you can be "sex-positive" and against international sex trafficking.
[QUOTE=daschnek;42332655]This is how you sound.[/QUOTE]
Not quite. NSDAP doesn't represent all of germans and doesn't give a face to germany.
Whereas FEMEN has given a face to feminism. Well the media has, for the most part, but they have theirselves to blame also when no one takes them seriously anymore.
the NSDAP was literally in charge of Germany and voted into the reichstag but femen represents feminism more than nsdap represents germany??? ok
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332691]the NSDAP was literally in charge of Germany and voted into the reichstag but femen represents feminism more than nsdap represents germany??? ok[/QUOTE]
Germany has gone past NSDAP whereas FEMEN hasn't really done much anything to the feminist cause. Except kicked dirt all over it.
[QUOTE=Crazy;42332668]Not quite. NSDAP doesn't represent all of germans and doesn't give a face to germany.[/QUOTE]
Femen doesn't represent all feminsts and NSDAP was certainly the face of 1930's and 40's Germany.
if you think FEMEN represents feminism as a whole you seriously need to rethink what you're saying
they are one of the more extreme feminism groups out there, you can't just cherry pick them and say "THIS IS WHY FEMINISM IS BAD THESE PEOPLE REPRESENT THEM"
[QUOTE=Crazy;42332668]Not quite. NSDAP doesn't represent all of germans and doesn't give a face to germany.
Whereas FEMEN has given a face to feminism. Well the media has, for the most part, but they have theirselves to blame also when no one takes them seriously anymore.[/QUOTE]
What are you on about? Feminism is a centuries-old social movement advocated in some slight form or another by tons of people across political lines.
It's almost like you're saying "PETA are crazy, and PETA says not to blowtorch my dog, it MUST be okay to blowtorch my dog! After all, they are the FACE of animal rights!!"
[QUOTE=Crazy;42332706]Germany has gone past NSDAP whereas FEMEN hasn't really done much anything to the feminist cause. Except kicked dirt all over it.[/QUOTE]
so femen hasn't really done much anything to the feminist cause yet theyve ruined it
youre not making sense but alright stay cool
What is the point of this. Male models exist too, and they do exactly the same stuff as the female ones, so this is not a discrimination issue
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332642]the negative image of feminism started in the 70s and didnt have shit to do with femen
image is controlled by media and institutions, and when you take the offensive against media and institutional ideas about women you will never win favour[/QUOTE]
And that's really sad looking how far the gap between reality and the media's portrayal of feminism is, it reaches as far as to women who simply believe there should be equal treatment for both genders are practically afraid of being considered feminist and instead feel the need to call themselves something else as even those regard feminists as nothing more as extremist chicks who pull shit like FEMEN does.
I mean it's sad to think this is how things work for everything though. Every community, no matter if it's religion, politics, or maybe even just a fandom on the internet, will always be judged and generalized to be nothing more than what the loud and obnoxious fragment of it does, or well, what the outside picks up the most from it, no matter how much that actually really represents the whole thing. The decision to generalize everything though will be always on us as individual, though, and I guess a lot of people just need to start thinking more about these things themselves instead of just accepting the stereotypes they get served by their surroundings.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;42332734]What is the point of this. Male models exist too, and they do exactly the same stuff as the female ones, so this is not a discrimination issue[/QUOTE]
some ppl believe that models exhibit a male-dominated ideal of femininity that alienates women in society
naomi wolf argued that the fashion industry established an unattainable ideal for women which in turn punishes them for not aspiring or meeting that ideal
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=balls-and-all;42332747]instead feel the need to call themselves something else as even those regard feminists as nothing more as extremist chicks who pull shit like FEMEN does.[/QUOTE]
well the thing about femen is that theyre extremist only in their actions, not their rhetoric
if femen didnt use these tactics, no-one would care about them and their message would be unheard of because the media is utterly selective in their portrayal
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332753]some ppl believe that models exhibit a male-dominated ideal of femininity that alienates women in society
naomi wolf argued that the fashion industry established an unattainable ideal for women which in turn punishes them for not aspiring or meeting that ideal[/QUOTE]
Male models look nothing like the average male either
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;42332766]Male models look nothing like the average male either[/QUOTE]
your point being
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332770]your point being[/QUOTE]
The portrayal of both men and women in the fashion industry is equally unrealistic
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];42332622']Not let a tiny fraction not representative of an entire movement cloud your perception?[/QUOTE]
Well, you let that happen with MRA's, using shit like r/mensrights as examples.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;42332774]The portrayal of both men and women in the fashion industry is equally unrealistic[/QUOTE]
and thats relevant to social pressure relating to the fashion industry how?
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=katbug;42332775]Well, you let that happen with MRA's, using shit like r/mensrights as examples.[/QUOTE]
except thats where "MRA's" were born
MRA is a plagiarism of feminist ideas in the first place anyway
feminism existed years and years before FEMEN
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332753]some ppl believe that models exhibit a male-dominated ideal of femininity that alienates women in society
naomi wolf argued that the fashion industry established an unattainable ideal for women which in turn punishes them for not aspiring or meeting that ideal
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
[b]well the thing about femen is that theyre extremist only in their actions, not their rhetoric
if femen didnt use these tactics, no-one would care about them and their message would be unheard of because the media is utterly selective in their portraya[/b]l[/QUOTE]
So you're saying that women should not be allowed to model? Or that they shouldn't be allowed to create an unrealistic perception of femininity? Or at the very least that they shouldn't be allowed to do SOMETHING that they want to do because it degrades other women (there are women all throughout the fashion industry, not just modelling). That's what it sounds like you're saying because you say you support the anti-fashion rhetoric that FEMEN is using.
The insinuation you're creating is that women are not allowed to do things because it degrades other women, but men are allowed to do things in the fashion industry because it (presumably) doesn't degrade other men. How is this creating equality, how is it even remotely supporting the ideals of feminism?
You're not only saying that women are not allowed to do something that men can do, you're basically saying that women are not allowed to be what we consider to be attractive because it makes other people feel bad.
this wasn't to protest "ideal body image" it was to gain attention towards their feminist movement and it shouldn't be praised, It's someone streaking on stage trying to prevent someone from doing their job.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332782]and thats relevant to social pressure relating to the fashion industry how?[/QUOTE]
Because social pressure is not an issue exclusive to women. It is also not a bad thing. People might not like pressure but they need it
[QUOTE=Zyler;42332797]That's what it sounds like you're saying because you say you support the anti-fashion rhetoric that FEMEN is using.[/QUOTE]
...
ive said no such thing
[QUOTE=Zyler;42332797]The insinuation you're creating is that women are not allowed to do things because it degrades other women, but men are allowed to do things in the fashion industry because it (presumably) doesn't degrade other men. How is this creating equality, how is it even remotely supporting the ideals of feminism? [/QUOTE]
i dont know where that insinuation comes from, but men control the fashion industry in the first place so such a comparison is false
[QUOTE=Zyler;42332797]You're not only saying that women are not allowed to do something that men can do, you're basically saying that women are not allowed to be what we consider to be attractive because it makes other people feel bad.[/QUOTE]
i havent said any of this but ok
[QUOTE=Alternativ;42332805]this wasn't to protest "ideal body image" it was to gain attention towards their feminist movement and it shouldn't be praised, It's someone streaking on stage trying to prevent someone from doing their job.[/QUOTE]To be honest, I don't actually believe that FEMEN are [i]really[/i] feminists so every time they do something, "women's rights" is not at the front of my mind. Everything they've done just isn't really convincing me they're in it for anything other than being disruptive and craving attention.
[QUOTE=Zyler;42332797]So you're saying that women should not be allowed to model? Or that they shouldn't be allowed to create an unrealistic perception of femininity? Or at the very least that they shouldn't be allowed to do SOMETHING that they want to do because it degrades other women (there are women all throughout the fashion industry, not just modelling). That's what it sounds like you're saying because you say you support the anti-fashion rhetoric that FEMEN is using.
The insinuation you're creating is that women are not allowed to do things because it degrades other women, but men are allowed to do things in the fashion industry because it (presumably) doesn't degrade other men. How is this creating equality, how is it even remotely supporting the ideals of feminism?
You're not only saying that women are not allowed to do something that men can do, you're basically saying that women are not allowed to be what we consider to be attractive because it makes other people feel bad.[/QUOTE]It's a miracle he remains even remotely polite considering the gusto with which people like you shove words down his throat.
[img]http://puu.sh/4C8ds.png[/img]
I hope I'm not the only one who laughed at this. :v:
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