[QUOTE=Laserbeams;42332808]Because social pressure is not an issue exclusive to women. It is also not a bad thing. People might not like pressure but they need it[/QUOTE]
id say the pressure men feel comes from masculinity and class not the fashion industry
its totally acceptable for men to be unfashionable. see how male politicians can wear simple suits and be accepted by the mainstream yet women dress in fashionable expensive clothing
and i dont see how the pressure caused by the fashion industry is something we "need". plenty of people in the world live without it.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332811]...
ive said no such thing
i dont know where that insinuation comes from, but men control the fashion industry in the first place so such a comparison is false
i havent said any of this but ok[/QUOTE]
You said you support the FEMEN rhetoric. You're also condemning all of the women in the fashion industry when you say stuff like "men control the fashion industry in the first place so such a comparison is false". Do you think that women can't control the fashion industry or something? Last time I checked there was a huge population of women working within fashion. What's your problem with letting women do their jobs?
I understand you have an issue with the pursuit of the 'ideal' body type and the whole idea of unrealistic perceptions being broadcast in the media, but that is a human issue not exclusively a feminist one.
[QUOTE=Crazy;42332706]Germany has gone past NSDAP whereas FEMEN hasn't really done much anything to the feminist cause. Except kicked dirt all over it.[/QUOTE]
femen has like 100 active people in it, with a few thousands through the internet(if you're willing to count that lol), meanwhile [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Organization_for_Women[/url] in the US is the largest feminist organization of the planet and has a membership of 550.000 lol
but femen is the face of feminism, riiiiiight.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332819]id say the pressure men feel comes from masculinity and class not the fashion industry
its totally acceptable for men to be unfashionable. see how male politicians can wear simple suits and be accepted by the mainstream yet women dress in fashionable expensive clothing
and i dont see how the pressure caused by the fashion industry is something we "need". plenty of people in the world live without it.[/QUOTE]
Not really. Male models usually have perfect bodies, just like female ones do.
If we didn't want to look like the people on the catwalks and on TV, humanity would turn into slabs of fat in only a few generations
[QUOTE=Zyler;42332824]You said you support the FEMEN rhetoric.[/QUOTE]
youre obviously confused, ive never said that
[QUOTE=Zyler;42332824]You're also condemning all of the women in the fashion industry when you say stuff like "men control the fashion industry in the first place so such a comparison is false". Do you think that women can't control the fashion industry or something? Last time I checked there was a huge population of women working within fashion. What's your problem with letting women do their jobs?[/QUOTE]
women model but most companies and fashions are made by men. calvin klien, karl lagerfeld, alexander mcqueen, valentino. prob the bigger names in fashion.
you have a lot of women working in the margin of fashion like your vivienne westwoods but thats boutique and not haute couture
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;42332845]
If we didn't want to look like the people on the catwalks and on TV, humanity would turn into slabs of fat in only a few generations[/QUOTE]
Those people aren't necessarily healthy you know.
Alot of people actually do have an interest in living healthy lives, like avoiding heart disease and stuff.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332819]id say the pressure men feel comes from masculinity and class not the fashion industry
its totally acceptable for men to be unfashionable. see how male politicians can wear simple suits and be accepted by the mainstream yet women dress in fashionable expensive clothing
and i dont see how the pressure caused by the fashion industry is something we "need". plenty of people in the world live without it.[/QUOTE]lol no it isn't, if you're not fashionable you're going to constantly endure snide comments. It's especially super feel-good when you essentially look like a biker/viking/truck warlord and anything regarding clothing comes up, you are actively dismissed because of how you look. Merely saying, "hmm, I need to get a new suit soon," is apparently an invitation for every single ~fashionable~ person to come to your "rescue" and most of them are women. I don't know what goes through their heads, but it's probably something like this, "you're just a rugged manly man and your simple brain is only good for fighting bears and chopping trees or whatever."
[editline]oh and[/editline]
For the record, I'm not "unfashionable" by design, I wear practical clothing that [i]suits my lifestyle.[/i] This does not mean I am incapable of dressing up, I just don't see the wisdom in wearing fine clothing in most of my day to day activities. Most clothes that look great are not very durable, and I need durability for 99% of the things I do every day, being flame retardant is a big plus as well.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;42332845]Not really. Male models usually have perfect bodies, just like female ones do. [/QUOTE]
thats marketed towards women just like fashion is
women's magazines will feature male models, men's magazines do not have them
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;42332845]If we didn't want to look like the people on the catwalks and on TV, humanity would turn into slabs of fat in only a few generations[/QUOTE]
considering the catwalks and the tv havent had people like that for less than 50 years and we managed to not be slabs of fat im gonna have to give you an ambivalent w/e
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332851]youre obviously confused, ive never said that
women model but most companies and fashions are made by men. calvin klien, karl lagerfeld, alexander mcqueen, valentino. prob the bigger names in fashion.
you have a lot of women working in the margin of fashion like your vivienne westwoods but thats boutique and not haute couture[/QUOTE]
Women have just as much influence in the fashion industry as men do, and the women who work in fashion are just as capable as being high-ranking designers as they are in every other area of fashion, not just boutique or whatever. When you list brands you're only counting a few specific individuals, while most fashion design is made by a variety of people and not just 10 or so from the 4 or 5 you listed. Do you honestly think that the dozen or so famous designers design, make and ship everything that people wear? Why wouldn't women be able to work in the higher areas of fashion?
Secondly, here's the quote where you said you support FEMEN rhetoric
[QUOTE]well the thing about femen is that theyre extremist only in their actions, not their rhetoric
if femen didnt use these tactics, no-one would care about them and their message would be unheard of because the media is utterly selective in their portrayal.[/QUOTE]
If you don't support the FEMEN rhetoric, then don't worry because that was exclusively what I was arguing against. If you do support FEMEN rhetoric, then the point I was making is that the FEMEN ideals are actually anti-feminist because they actively try to stop women doing certain things that they want to do.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;42332853]lol no it isn't, if you're not fashionable you're going to constantly endure snide comments. It's especially super feel-good when you essentially look like a biker/viking/truck warlord and anything regarding clothing comes up, you are actively dismissed because of how you look. Merely saying, "hmm, I need to get a new suit soon," is apparently an invitation for every single ~fashionable~ person to come to your "rescue" and most of them are women. I don't know what goes through their heads, but it's probably something like this, "you're just a rugged manly man and your simple brain is only good for fighting bears and chopping trees or whatever."[/QUOTE]
maybe if you're young or something
most working men at around age 30-50 feel no pressure to be fashionable yet women do because its linked to youth and all sorts of things. see the difference between male and female CEO's.
What was this trying to prove?
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332878]maybe if you're young or something
most working men at around age 30-50 feel no pressure to be fashionable yet women do because its linked to youth and all sorts of things. see the difference between male and female CEO's.[/QUOTE]
So with this logic, women aren't allowed to try and be fashionable? Men might not feel the same pressure to be 'fashionable' but they sure as hell suffer from other pressures, to be cool and tough and so on.
[QUOTE=katbug;42332775]Well, you let that happen with MRA's, using shit like r/mensrights as examples.[/QUOTE]
yeah except feminism isn't fundamentally redundant or flat-out wrong? if the ideology is inherently stupid then everyone who subscribes to it must be on some level stupid, it's just a matter of how much they mince words
[QUOTE=Alternativ;42332805]this wasn't to protest "ideal body image" it was to gain attention towards their feminist movement and it shouldn't be praised, It's someone streaking on stage trying to prevent someone from doing their job.[/QUOTE]
Didn't see this. Cheers
[QUOTE=Zyler;42332876]Women have just as much influence in the fashion industry as men do, and the women who work in fashion are just as capable as being high-ranking designers as they are in every other area of fashion, not just boutique or whatever. When you list brands you're only counting a few specific individuals, while most fashion design is made by a variety of people and not just 10 or so from the 4 or 5 you listed. Do you honestly think that the dozen or so famous designers design, make and ship everything that people wear? Why wouldn't women be able to work in the higher areas of fashion?[/QUOTE]
those are "the" names in fashion and we are talking about institutional things. those names are institutional names. those people lay the founding mark for what fashion is today.
even the actual clothing brand this thread is about is owned and designed by males.
[QUOTE=Zyler;42332876]Secondly, here's the quote where you said you support FEMEN rhetoric [/QUOTE]
i dont even talk about myself in that quote but what-fucking-ever i guess
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zyler;42332885]Men might not feel the same pressure to be 'fashionable' but they sure as hell suffer from other pressures, to be cool and tough and so on.[/QUOTE]
which has 0 to do with what were talking about
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332871]considering the catwalks and the tv havent had people like that for less than 50 years and we managed to not be slabs of fat im gonna have to give you an ambivalent w/e[/QUOTE]
But have we? Humanity is as fat as ever
[QUOTE=katbug;42332775]Well, you let that happen with MRA's, using shit like r/mensrights as examples.[/QUOTE]
yeah why would people ignore those fantastic major mens rights organisations like
and
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;42332937]But have we? Humanity is as fat as ever[/QUOTE]
humanity is also less hungry because food is cheaper
poorer people are more obese and they dont have the money to subscribe to fashionable standards yet we judge them negatively if they dont
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332957]humanity is also less hungry because food is cheaper
poorer people are more obese and they dont have the money to subscribe to fashionable standards yet we judge them negatively if they dont[/QUOTE]
We can't blame the fashion industry for poverty
[QUOTE=katbug;42332775]Well, you let that happen with MRA's, using shit like r/mensrights as examples.[/QUOTE]
And don´t forget how they love to label you instantly as MRA as soon as you are not having the exact same opinion as them. And then they call you a fedora wearing neckbeard.
It is really hypocritic of them to say that you shouldn´t label the whole feminist movement because of some bad apples when they themselves start labeling people unfairly.
[QUOTE=SuddenImpact;42332997]And don´t forget how they love to label you instantly as MRA as soon as you are not having the exact same opinion as them. And then they call you a fedora wearing neckbeard.
It is really hypocritic of them to say that you shouldn´t label the whole feminist movement because of some bad apples when they themselves start labeling people unfairly.[/QUOTE]
No one instantly labels you an MRA unless you're obviously being a misogynist asshole. Get over yourself
[QUOTE=thisispain;42332900]those are "the" names in fashion and we are talking about institutional things. those names are institutional names. those people lay the founding mark for what fashion is today.
even the actual clothing brand this thread is about is owned and designed by males.
i dont even talk about myself in that quote but what-fucking-ever i guess
[editline]28th September 2013[/editline]
which has 0 to do with what were talking about[/QUOTE]
Ok so I guess I'll respond to each of your points individually,
[QUOTE]those are "the" names in fashion and we are talking about institutional things. those names are institutional names. those people lay the founding mark for what fashion is today.
even the actual clothing brand this thread is about is owned and designed by males.[/QUOTE]
I find it highly unlikely there are no women in those individual and particular companies, to even suggest that women don't work in those companies just because the 'face' of the company is a man seems misogynistic.
[QUOTE] I don't even talk about myself in that quot but what-fucking-ever I guess[/QUOTE]
If that isn't what you mean, then that's fine, you just need to be a little bit more clear about what you mean in the future.
[QUOTE] "Men might not feel the pressure to conform in fashion, but they have to conform in other areas", which has 0 to do with what were talking about[/QUOTE]
I think it has everything to do with what we're arguing here because it proves what I'm saying, which is that the issue of conforming to impossible to reach ideals is a human one, and not exclusively feminist because it doesn't just have to do with women.
[QUOTE]humanity is also less hungry because food is cheaper
poorer people are more obese and they dont have the money to subscribe to fashionable standards yet we judge them negatively if they dont[/QUOTE]
You don't have to be skinny to be healthy and vice versa, but the problem with eating nothing but crap fast food is a health one, not a fashion one.
[QUOTE=opaali;42333148][img]http://static.iltalehti.fi/mallit/fem122709JOB_mp.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
I love how animalistic and overly aggressive FEMEN is :v:
If you replaced the audio in a video of them doing what they do with the sound of angry monkeys, it wouldn't make any less sense.
This the same group that is run by a machiavellian, manipulative dude who did it to get laid?
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/the-man-who-made-femen-new-film-outs-victor-svyatski-as-the-mastermind-behind-the-protest-group-and-its-breastbaring-stunts-8797042.html[/url]
Nobody noticed how all of FEMEN's naked protesters are drop dead gorgeous? Whats up with that?
[QUOTE=opaali;42333148][img]http://static.iltalehti.fi/mallit/fem122709JOB_mp.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
That guy must feel so awkward :v:
[QUOTE=Aphtonites;42333182]I love how animalistic and overly aggressive FEMEN is :v:
If you replaced the audio in a video of them doing what they do with the sound of angry monkeys, it wouldn't make any less sense.[/QUOTE]
Obviously the male patriarchy causing them to behave like animals
[QUOTE=jaegerisacunt;42333249]This the same group that is run by a machiavellian, manipulative dude who did it to get laid?
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/the-man-who-made-femen-new-film-outs-victor-svyatski-as-the-mastermind-behind-the-protest-group-and-its-breastbaring-stunts-8797042.html[/url]
Nobody noticed how all of FEMEN's naked protesters are drop dead gorgeous? Whats up with that?[/QUOTE]
They're Ukrainian. We're all gorgeous
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;42333263]They're Ukrainian. We're all gorgeous[/QUOTE]
From the article:
[QUOTE]However, Ms Green reveals that Svyatski is not simply a supporter of Femen but its founder and éminence grise. [b] “It’s his movement and he hand-picked the girls. He hand-picked the prettiest girls because the prettiest girls sell more papers. The prettiest girls get on the front page... that became their image, that became the way they sold the brand,” [/b] she says.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zyler;42333279]From the article:[/QUOTE]
That was a joke, dude. I know Femen is a bullshit organisation
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
