Why I Feel Bad for the Pepper-Spraying Policeman, Lt. John Pike
130 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sexy Eskimo;33444012][B]New video.[/B]
They were all properly warned when they didn't comply.
[URL]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=88a_1322258639[/URL]
I fully respect the act of pepper spraying them now, they were ordered to do it and they did it in a proper manor. I fucking hope this will stop being propaganda bullshit from protesters now.[/QUOTE]
Well that changes the perspective dramatically. This officer was professional in his conduct, and I respect him a lot more now. But that doesn't justify the course of action he was ordered to take.
I suggest starting a new thread with this video, many people aren't going to see it otherwise, and it does paint a very different picture.
Yeah yeah, and i feel sympathy for the nazis who gassed thousands of jews. Because they were ordered to.
No I dont.
[QUOTE=BloodYScar;33446237]Yeah yeah, and i feel sympathy for the nazis who gassed thousands of jews. Because they were ordered to.
No I dont.[/QUOTE]
It was gas the jews or face the consequences, i can forgive them.
[QUOTE=Sexy Eskimo;33444012]I fully respect the act of pepper spraying them now, they were ordered to do it and they did it in a proper manor. I fucking hope this will stop being propaganda bullshit from protesters now.[/QUOTE]
They weren't ordered to pepperspray anybody, that's bullshit. They were ordered to move the protesters. He used utterly excessive force in doing so, if you ask me. Pepperspray is supposed to be used to incapacitate people and is generally only used against armed suspects, whereas these kids were just sitting there.
Did you know that he warned all of them directly that if they continued refusing to move, that they would use force? Well guess what, they did. Did you also know that the students were refusing to let the police leave unless they let the other students go?
[url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=88a_1322258639[/url]
In the video, he goes down the line telling one or two at a time that if they don't move, they will be subject to the use of force. Before they even had the pepper spray out, they gave them a clear warning. You can't scream "abuse" when they are refusing to cooperate. They were ordered to remove the students. They don't have a choice, they had to. In my opinion, pepper spray was probably the best choice over anything else they could have done. You can't say "they just shouldn't have done anything" when they were ordered to do it. Sure, it sucks, and they may not like doing it, but it was an order.
You can also watch this video which also shows that they may have been well aware that the officers would use force:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO4406KJQMc[/media]
Hmm, after more searching, according to other news sites, the officers were actually acting against orders and were told not to use pepper spray. They were also told by the vice-chancellor that he wanted the protest to "go forward peaceably", which conflicts with other news reports from other sites. However that statement itself doesn't make sense to me, as if the vice-chancellor wanted it to go forwards, then why were the cops called in the first place? According to multiple sites, "Chancellor Katehi sent a letter to the university saying the school had no option but to ask the police to assist in the removal of the protesters." However, "she said she did not know who decided to use pepper spray, and that she was shocked when she saw the video footage on Friday night." So the chancellor had no idea of the pepper spray. In the end, it was the decision of Lt Pike to use pepper spray.
[QUOTE=LittleDogX;33452555]Did you know that he warned all of them directly that if they continued refusing to move, that they would use force? Well guess what, they did. Did you also know that the students were refusing to let the police leave unless they let the other students go?
[url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=88a_1322258639[/url]
In the video, he goes down the line telling one or two at a time that if they don't move, they will be subject to the use of force. Before they even had the pepper spray out, they gave them a clear warning. You can't scream "abuse" when they are refusing to cooperate. They were ordered to remove the students. They don't have a choice, they had to. In my opinion, pepper spray was probably the best choice over anything else they could have done. You can't say "they just shouldn't have done anything" when they were ordered to do it. Sure, it sucks, and they may not like doing it, but it was an order.[/QUOTE]
How is pepperspray the best option? Hey, how about grabbing them and moving them? They're police, and the protestors are college kids. Pretty sure if the police actually tried they could have moved them.
It was a peaceful fucking protest, you don't go around pepperspraying people because they refuse to move, Jesus Christ.
[QUOTE=Grim Joker;33452657]How is pepperspray the best option? Hey, how about grabbing them and moving them? They're police, and the protestors are college kids. [b]Pretty sure if the police actually tried they could have moved them.[/b]
It was a peaceful fucking protest, you don't go around pepperspraying people because they refuse to move, Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE]
The problem with that is the protestors were sitting together hanging onto each other. As others have said in other threads, if the police tried to force them apart then, that may have actually caused more injuries. They used pepper spray to break them up and arrest them, which clearly worked as seen in the second video. I also updated my post with some other info.
[QUOTE=Sexy Eskimo;33444012]
I fully respect the act of pepper spraying them now[/QUOTE]
well yes that's because you're authoritarian
[QUOTE=LittleDogX;33452836]The problem with that is the protestors were sitting together hanging onto each other. As others have said in other threads, if the police tried to force them apart then, that may have actually caused more injuries. They used pepper spray to break them up and arrest them, which clearly worked as seen in the second video. I also updated my post with some other info.[/QUOTE]
Well there you go, they weren't even supposed to use pepperspray. Two of the protestors were sent to the emergency room. I'm pretty sure forcing some people apart is better than blasting them in the face with what is considered a weapon.
[QUOTE=LittleDogX;33452836]The problem with that is the protestors were sitting together hanging onto each other. As others have said in other threads, if the police tried to force them apart then, that may have actually caused more injuries. They used pepper spray to break them up and arrest them, which clearly worked as seen in the second video. I also updated my post with some other info.[/QUOTE]
Here's a better question: Why were they ordered to move them in the first place? They were sitting in the middle of a walkway that at best took 10 seconds to walk around. You think it's okay for the police to arbitrarily warn people to move, and if they don't then abuse them? That would not fly in any other situation, so why the double standard?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33453024]Here's a better question: Why were they ordered to move them in the first place? They were sitting in the middle of a walkway that at best took 10 seconds to walk around. You think it's okay for the police to arbitrarily warn people to move, and if they don't then abuse them? That would not fly in any other situation, so why the double standard?[/QUOTE]
The actual reason they were there was because there were a bunch of tents set up in the area for another "Occupy *LOCATION*". The chancellor contacted police to have them removed and when the police arrived, that is when the students all started to sit together and were refusing to comply with the orders.
And what do you mean "double standard"? That's how the police have always done things. When an officer orders you to do something, you comply. When officers order someone to lay on the ground, if the person refuses, they use force. If an officer orders a person to move, and they don't move, they use force. How is that a double standard? Again, I don't consider it abuse as their options of making them move were limited. Even if something is a peaceful protest, if people are in the way or causing a disturbance, they can be asked to move or they will be removed.
Besides all of that, the entire event was more than just the "walkway", it was about the entire location and the tents they had set up, and the students were refusing to leave the area, not JUST the walkway. I'm going to assume they were on the walkway most likely because it was the center.
[editline]26th November 2011[/editline]
There's also this, which is from the Chancellor to the students:
[quote]I am writing to tell you about events that occurred Friday afternoon at UC Davis relating to a group of protestors who chose to set up an encampment on the quad Thursday as part of a week of peaceful demonstrations on our campus that coincided with many other occupy movements at universities throughout the country.
The group did not respond to requests from administration and campus police to comply with campus rules that exist to protect the health and safety of our campus community. The group was informed in writing this morning that the encampment violated regulations designed to protect the health and safety of students, staff and faculty. The group was further informed that if they did not dismantle the encampment, it would have to be removed.
Following our requests, several of the group chose to dismantle their tents this afternoon and we are grateful for their actions. However a number of protestors refused our warning, offering us no option but to ask the police to assist in their removal. We are saddened to report that during this activity, 10 protestors were arrested and pepper spray was used. We will be reviewing the details of the incident.
We appreciate and strongly defend the rights of all our students, faculty and staff to robust and respectful dialogue as a fundamental tenet of our great academic institution. At the same time, we have a responsibility to our entire campus community, including the parents who have entrusted their students to us, to ensure that all can live, learn and work in a safe and secure environment. We were aware that some of those involved in the recent demonstrations on campus were not members of the UC Davis community and this required us to be even more vigilant about the safety of our students, faculty and staff. We take this responsibility very seriously.
While we have appreciated the peaceful and respectful tone of the demonstrations during the week, the encampment raised serious health and safety concerns, and the resources required to supervise this encampment could not be sustained, especially in these very tight economic times when our resources must support our core academic mission.
We deeply regret that many of the protestors today chose not to work with our campus staff and police to remove the encampment as requested. We are even more saddened by the events that subsequently transpired to facilitate their removal.
We appreciate the substantive dialogue the students have begun here on campus as part of this week.s activities, and we want to offer appropriate opportunities to express opinions, advance the discussion and suggest solutions as part of the time-honored university tradition. We invite our entire campus community to consider the topics related to the occupy movement you would like to discuss and we pledge to work with you to develop a series of discussion forums throughout our campus.
I ask all members of the campus community for their support in ensuring a safe environment for all members of our campus community. We hope you will actively support us in accomplishing this objective.
Linda P.B. Katehi
Chancellor[/quote]
This was posted on the day it happened, whether it was before or after the pepper-spray, I don't know.
i'm confused as to why people think that just because the cop told them he'd pepper spray them before he did changes anything
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33452915]well yes that's because you're authoritarian[/QUOTE]
They had it coming, cops followed order and i bet there is a proper reason behind it.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;33454856]i'm confused as to why people think that just because the cop told them he'd pepper spray them before he did changes anything[/QUOTE]
Well the police actually did warn them in a proper manor, people didn't believe that at first.
[QUOTE=Sexy Eskimo;33444012][B]New video.[/B]
They were all properly warned when they didn't comply.
[URL]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=88a_1322258639[/URL]
I fully respect the act of pepper spraying them now, they were ordered to do it and they did it in a proper manor. I fucking hope this will stop being propaganda bullshit from protesters now.[/QUOTE]
It's just lazy to use pepper-spray when they obviously aren't violent, you could just lift them up and walk 'em away.
[QUOTE=Sexy Eskimo;33456599]They had it coming, cops followed order and i bet there is a proper reason behind it.[/QUOTE]
Actually, apparently they were ordered [I]not[/I] to use excessive force in getting rid of the students.
The students could have moved since the officer gave them warning about being pepper sprayed. So, its technically their fault.
[QUOTE=Sand;33457208]The students could have moved since the officer gave them warning about being pepper sprayed. So, its technically their fault.[/QUOTE]
Police use excessive force on you when you're doing nothing wrong. It is your fault.
Okay.
[QUOTE=Grim Joker;33457259]Police use excessive force on you when you're doing nothing wrong. It is your fault.
Okay.[/QUOTE]
No, they could have not been pepper sprayed by moving. Therefore, they got pepper sprayed because of their own actions.
[QUOTE=Sand;33457281]No, they could have not been pepper sprayed by moving. Therefore, they got pepper sprayed because of their own actions.[/QUOTE]
But what they were doing wasn't illegal. They weren't taking up the entire walkway, and they weren't being violent, or even noisy. It was just a group of people sitting around. If you're protesting, you generally aren't going to leave when someone is like 'leave', since that kind of defeats the point of protesting.
What kind of day and age do we live in where police brutality occurs, and people start saying how it was the fault of the extremely peaceful protestors that they got peppersprayed? Like, seriously, what kind of fucked up logic is that?
Too many people here are conflating legality with morality. If it was suddenly legal for police to use lethal force on peacefull protesters (Like, egypt right now) you cant say "Herpderp it was their fault for protesting"
[QUOTE=Kopimi;33404695]If the next guy in line did it, he too, should be judged for his actions
If you're willing to do something you know is entirely wrong just so you don't get a writeup at work, you do not have the moral integrity or strength of character that is deserving of a position in which you enforce the law
I don't want police officers that are so morally weak they value their paycheck more than the oath they took to serve and protect the people of the United States
[editline]23rd November 2011[/editline]
What if he had been ordered to kill the person?
Would you say the same then?
How long can you keep tirelessly stretching this pathetic paycheck argument to defend worse and worse actions?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H0yMDxf7Sz4[/url]
Private property and each were warned prior to doing so
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;33499700][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H0yMDxf7Sz4[/url]
Private property and each were warned prior to doing so[/QUOTE]
I like how people think just because the cops warned them, it's totally okay to use excessive force.
Hey does that mean Cops can shoot Jaywalkers as long as they warn them first?
[QUOTE=Grim Joker;33499929]I like how people think just because the cops warned them, it's totally okay to use excessive force.
Hey does that mean Cops can shoot Jaywalkers as long as they warn them first?[/QUOTE]
It was private property, the owner can force them off if they will not move. It would be like if a whole bunch of people randomly showed up on your lawn one day protesting the color of your house and your car and demanded change. You wouldn't want them, neither did the university
You guys are all dumb as fuck. ITs in our right to rightfully assemble. They weren't doing anything wrong. The school is privately administrated but it's public property otherwise. This was police brutality and he deserved to get fired.
[QUOTE=Toomanyhumans;33500128]You guys are all dumb as fuck. ITs in our right to rightfully assemble. They weren't doing anything wrong. The school is privately administrated but it's public property otherwise. This was police brutality and he deserved to get fired.[/QUOTE]
You don't understand what a public university is do you, or who actually owns it.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;33499972]You wouldn't want them, neither did the university[/QUOTE]
And then what you have to do is round them up and mace them!
(Also, nice ban log)
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;33500178]And then what you have to do is round them up and mace them!
(Also, nice ban log)[/QUOTE]
Well call the cops, once the cops ask them to leave, and which we will continue the analogy of them not leaving, they ask you do you want them to use force? it will be the owners call to authorize force of the disruptors, the cops have to comply by law at that point as they are breaking the law
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;33500223]Well call the cops, once the cops ask them to leave, and which we will continue the analogy of them not leaving, they ask you do you want them to use force? it will be the owners call to authorize force of the disruptors, the cops have to comply by law at that point as they are breaking the law[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't want people seriously harmed just because they're lounging on my lawn. Those protestors weren't being noisy, nor were they being messy, nor were they even blocking entry. They were literally just a group of people sitting there. The police didn't try to get them to move, really. They told them to move, the people said they weren't going to, the Police said they were going to use force, the people still said they weren't going to move, and then the police instantly walked up and sprayed them down with pepperspray right in the face.
When someone won't move, my first thought isn't "How about I intentionally inflict serious agony on them."
