[QUOTE=orgornot;50739220]His supporters are driven by religion (Islam). He ordered them to go out into the streets and risk dying which they happily did while shouting "allahu akbar" and climbing onto military tanks.
Obviously don't use models that have a terrible failure rate?
The whole point of my post was that we now have the technology to reinvent and develop on ideas that didn't work so well in the past.
If the government makes demand for 100% success rate, smart, safe mines for border control then you'll have dozens of companies ready to pitch their models.[/QUOTE]
You've got to be kidding me.
You realize that no mines will EVER have a 100% success rate, right?
Did I read it right, are people seriously saying putting deadly weaponry on the borders to be a good idea?
[QUOTE=orgornot;50739220]His supporters are driven by religion (Islam). He ordered them to go out into the streets and risk dying which they happily did while shouting "allahu akbar" and climbing onto military tanks.
Obviously don't use models that have a terrible failure rate?
The whole point of my post was that we now have the technology to reinvent and develop on ideas that didn't work so well in the past.
If the government makes demand for 100% success rate, smart, safe mines for border control then you'll have dozens of companies ready to pitch their models.[/QUOTE]
there is no such thing as a 100% success rate, even if the failure rate was 1%, there would be 10 broken mines for every 1000. you completely ignored my argument about what would happen if the mines got hacked, and you ignored the morality of mines as well.
and getting back to the article, I bet what will happen now is that the educators will be magically replaced by people who accept the new dictator and will attempt to brainwash children with those ideals, setting back any social progress even further
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50739250]You're still suggesting the use of a weapon designed primarily to maim people, is indiscriminate in its targeting, and which will disproportionately impact those who are already so desperate that they will risk crossing a [i]minefield[/i] in search of a better life. All this to stop those damn brown people from getting into our beautiful white countries.
It's fucking awful, you are awful, and you should feel awful.[/QUOTE]
If he's willing to say things like "stupid post about failure rates", just report and ignore, he's clearly a gimmick.
How exactly did a thread about Turkey sacking an absurd number of education staff turn into an immigration discussion and someone seriously considering using landmines to stop immigration?
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;50739592]How exactly did a thread about Turkey sacking an absurd number of education staff turn into an immigration discussion and someone seriously considering using landmines to stop immigration?[/QUOTE]
orgornot happened
[QUOTE=orgornot;50739220]If the government makes demand for 100% success rate, smart, safe mines for border control then you'll have dozens of companies ready to pitch their models.[/QUOTE]
Mines will not work, they're not full-proof, not "smart", and will not last. When it comes time to replace the mines, you'd need to clear the entire minefield, and then put down new ones. "Smart" mines don't last as long as normal mines, so you'd need to replace them even more frequently. And worse is there's nothing stopping would-be terrorists from digging them up and placing them in public parks or hiking trails.
Next weeks headline: 15,200 Islamists find new jobs in the education sector"
[editline]19th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50739684]Mines will not work, they're not full-proof, not "smart", and will not last. When it comes time to replace the mines, you'd need to clear the entire minefield, and then put down new ones. "Smart" mines don't last as long as normal mines, so you'd need to replace them even more frequently. And worse is there's nothing stopping would-be terrorists from digging them up and placing them in public parks or hiking trails.[/QUOTE]
There are chemical defusers in mines that kinda make the mine inoperable after x amount of hours
This is how totalitarianism starts.
Stalin's purges of the intelligentsia, Hitler's removal of university professors, eliminating all forms of opposition is a key step to consolidating one's power; it's all the same.
It will be interesting to see how the Islamic religious organizations react to Erdogan's actions similiar to how the churches in Europe resisted Nazi doctrine and occupation.
"Though neither the Catholic nor Protestant churches as institutions were prepared to openly oppose the Nazi State, it was from the clergy that the first major component of the German Resistance to the policies of the Third Reich emerged, and the churches as institutions provided the earliest and most enduring centres of systematic opposition to Nazi policies"
Wow it seems most of the people posting here are so uninformed about EU-Turkey relations when it comes to migrants.
The EU was negotiating with Turkey to have them stop the flow of migrants. In return the EU would make it easier for Turkey to enter the EU ([URL="http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/685088/EU-2-2bn-Turkey-migrant-crisis-Britain-paying"]and hand them a ton of cash[/URL])
You can read more about this deal here:
[URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-eu-35848181[/URL]
[URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36121083[/URL]
This is because Turkey has leverage since the EU is unwilling (due to political correctness? and other things) to enforce/secure its borders. Now with what's going on, we have even more reason to want to remove Turkey's leverage so we can enforce our borders without needing to beg Turkey to do it for us.
Turkey is undeniably turning into a theocratic dictatorship (as evidenced by these events).
This will have major geopolitical effects. That includes European immigration and border policy whether you like it or not.
[QUOTE=Fort83;50739925]I think he's more talking about using them as a form of visual deterrent. Even if the mines are all duds or if there were just signs saying mines and no actual mines at all, it would deter some people from crossing over (until they realize there is no danger of course). That's just how I interpreted his post though.[/QUOTE]
I doubt it. Orgornot has unironically advocated genocide in the past.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50739569]Did I read it right, are people seriously saying putting deadly weaponry on the borders to be a good idea?[/QUOTE]
No pluralization needed when speaking of a single person. Orgonot loves his mines :rolleyes:
While I don't agree with orgornot's radical ideas, he does have a point on one thing. The EU is content with letting Turkey defend its border (and by extension Europe's border) with any means necessary (don't think for a second they don't use mines, fences and machineguns like in the good old days), but if the responsibility shifts one country deeper, so say you move the mines, fences and machineguns to Bulgaria and Greece's borders, suddenly it's a crime against humanity. Further more, Europe pays billions out of pocket for the pleasure of not having to deal with the refugees directly.
I don't condone using minefields, but I am completely for having properly secured borders, so all these refugees can be taken in through the proper channels.
I doubt the Turkish citizens will even notice they're gone.
[QUOTE=Occlusion;50738969]Civil war when? Hopefully the wikileaks papers shed some light to the populus.[/QUOTE]
When are they being released?
[QUOTE=Bradyns;50743001]When are they being released?[/QUOTE]
The wikileaks papers, some of them at least, are already on the website.
[URL]https://www.wired.com/2016/07/wikileaks-dumps-erdogan-emails-turkeys-failed-coup/[/URL]
[url]https://wikileaks.com/akp-emails/[/url]
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;50743109]The wikileaks papers, some of them at least, are already on the website.
[URL]https://www.wired.com/2016/07/wikileaks-dumps-erdogan-emails-turkeys-failed-coup/[/URL]
[url]https://wikileaks.com/akp-emails/[/url][/QUOTE]
Relevant from the other thread:
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50743145]First batch is out, according to reddit a lot of it is spam and viruses, so be careful if you go looking.
[url=https://wikileaks.org/akp-emails/emailid/99477]This one[/url] seems to imply Turkey smuggled missiles into Palestine for use against Israel.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50739069]Don't start with this drivel. Mine fields are a one way ticket to murdering civilians[/QUOTE]
If you run into a clearly marked minefield and then blow up then it's your own fault.
[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;50743325]If you run into a clearly marked minefield and then blow up then it's your own fault.[/QUOTE]
i hope your joking
the amount of people advocating for mines is sad
very sad
good thing the Ottawa Treaty exists and AP mines are banned in all of europe, and the US follows a similar treaty on AP mines.
EDIT:
oh look another cool fact from unicef:
15000 to 20000 people die from mines EDIT: per year
usually children
im sure children wont walk into minefields, especially young ones
[QUOTE=orgornot;50739108]E
LANDMINES
When a flood of people try to come here, you can switch those on and no-one will dare crossing, believe me.[/QUOTE]
Why dont we introduce mustard gas, Sarin, Napalm and Cluster bombs when we are at it. Nobody will dare to cross then!
Just build a frigging fence.
[editline]20th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;50743325]If you run into a clearly marked minefield and then blow up then it's your own fault.[/QUOTE]
What if it isnt clearly marked anymore 50 years from now?
People are still dying from ww2 era landmines in Russia, eastern Europe and Afrika.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50739434]Okay John Kerry, you know your statement about taking them out of NATO? It's time to seriously consider it.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that if US-Russian relations are going to remain icy for the forseeable future because of the situation in Ukraine, then geopolitics need to be considered. If Turkey is expelled from NATO, it would probably seek allies elsewhere, the most likely candidate being Russia. Without NATO backing it up, Turkey would most likely apologize for its previous brinksmanship and begin aligning itself with Putin, who would welcome the move due to Turkey's position between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean.
Russia has already seized Crimea for its Black Sea port. The last thing we need is to hand them the keys to a gate to the Mediterranean as well.
[QUOTE=Maadz;50743345]i hope your joking
the amount of people advocating for mines is sad
very sad
good thing the Ottawa Treaty exists and AP mines are banned in all of europe, and the US follows a similar treaty on AP mines.
EDIT:
oh look another cool fact from unicef:
15000 to 20000 people die from mines EDIT: per year
usually children
im sure children wont walk into minefields, especially young ones[/QUOTE]
Not that I advocate for mines but I think the idea is that if you try to illegally cross a border you would hit them
I.E. they're not willy nilly where anyone could walk into them, only across border lines which are usually p. far from any stickman children.
is this literally hitler 2.0 in the making
Fucking minefields? What is this, Festung Europa 2.0?
[QUOTE=da space core;50739192]He is, but at most is using islam as a tool. islam did not cause this, this guy is a dangerous man who is striving for more power and is stopping at nothing to get it.
Didn't we have a debate about this in the other thread? if I recall correctly (and someone correct me if my numbers are off) "smart" mines are required to work 95% of the time, so 5% may not work. So even if we set aside the moral issues of violently blowing people up just for trespassing (and btw, mines are not known for their clean quick kills, they are frankly inhumane) the mines may not work anyways.
if we set 1000 smart mines, and 5% do not turn off when we send the signal, then 50 are still active and may still kill people.
actually, what if someone manages to hack said mines and use them against us?
there are too many problems with this solution[/QUOTE]
Actually, the failure rate is [I]at least[/I] twice that figure. International "smart mine" standards allow for a 10%* failure rate of the self-termination feature, not five. The actual failure rate is effectively higher than that due to differing methods of production. So, for every hundred we plant, ten fail to self-terminate and remain active until somebody comes along and destroys (or activates) them.
[quote]* Self-destruct mechanisms are not 100% reliable. The Landmine Protocol of CCW (to which the US and China belong) allows a 10% failure rate. Technical experts say less sophisticated production methods can result in failure rates much higher. [/quote]
Source: [URL="https://www.hrw.org/legacy/english/docs/2004/02/27/7681.htm"]Human Rights Watch[/URL]
Even assuming that we were capable of creating 100% reliably self-terminating landmines (not realistically possible), we are still talking about a device that is primarily designed to maim, and which does so indiscriminately. Even against an actual military force, they are horrifically brutal, and we're not even talking about a military force here, we're talking about [B]fucking refugees and immigrants.[/B]
Mines are terrible. They should never be used. They certainly shouldn't used against civilians. What kind of lunatic would seriously suggest that?
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