Turkey: Israel is a terrorist state that massacres children - Polidicks

[QUOTE=scout1;38523680]lol I guess Sandy really was Obama's secret CIA program[/QUOTe] Hurricane != pre election violence to make people vote for the right. Israel instigated this.

[QUOTE=scout1;38523680]lol I guess Sandy really was Obama's secret CIA program[/QUOTE] you may as well stop posting if you think a dumb comparison like this makes any sense

[QUOTE=laserguided;38523690]Hurricane != pre election violence to make people vote for the right. Israel instigated this.[/QUOTE] Getting rocketed makes people vote for the people who caused the rockets? Well that's some logic

[QUOTE=Marbalo;38523695]It is a nationalist party, not an ultra-nationalist party. If it had been ultra-nationalistic, Gaza would be similar to 90's Grozny right now. Presenting hyperboles in order to further misrepresent Israel as some borderline Fascist state isn't doing anyone any good.[/QUOTE] From my perspective, they are extremist right. But that is because the spectrum is tilted left here, our right is leftist. [editline]20th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=scout1;38523701]Getting rocketed makes people vote for the people who caused the rockets? Well that's some logic[/QUOTE] I don't think you read my post, they'll probably be swayed to vote for the party that is hard on Palestine if they're launching rockets at them in response to their bombing campaign.

[QUOTE=laserguided;38523709] I don't think you read my post, they'll probably be swayed to vote for the party that is hard on Palestine if they're launching rockets at them in response to their bombing campaign.[/QUOTE] So the average Israeli voter seeks to club Gaza a few times, then club them some more when it 'hits back'? You really underestimate people's intelligence.

[QUOTE=scout1;38523719]So the average Israeli voter seeks to club Gaza a few times, then club them some more when it 'hits back'? You really underestimate people's intelligence.[/QUOTE] Ask Glorbo or Marbalo. I'm not Israeli.

[QUOTE=laserguided;38523723]Ask Glorbo or Marbalo. I'm not Israeli.[/QUOTE] Well I am waiting for them to explain how the violence in Gaza is all a secret plot to get re-elected.

When violence is directed your way, one tends to vote for the person who is tougher on the people directing the violence their way. As far as I know the majority of Israelis are nationalist. [editline]20th November 2012[/editline] Example, you get robbed of all your valuables and your house burnt down by criminals/gangsters. Do you vote for the guy who is tough on crime or the guy relaxed on crime? Lets assume the average person isn't that involved in politics.

[QUOTE=laserguided;38523755]When violence is directed your way, one tends to vote for the person who is tougher on the people directing the violence their way. As far as I know the majority of Israelis are nationalist. [editline]20th November 2012[/editline] Example, you get robbed of all your valuables and your house burnt down by criminals/gangsters. Do you vote for the guy who is tough on crime or the guy relaxed on crime? Lets assume the average person isn't that involved in politics.[/QUOTE] You mean after you burned an entire village to the ground and inflicted disproportionately more casualties and started it? Is this seriously how you think other people think?

Yes it is, since the average person isn't informed past what people tell them by word of mouth. If it means anything, out of all the Israeli's I met most of them support Israel just because they're Israel.

[QUOTE=laserguided;38523792]Yes it is, since the average person isn't informed past what people tell them by word of mouth. If it means anything, out of all the Israeli's I met most of them support Israel just because they're Israel.[/QUOTE] They support Israel because they live there, hence they will vote for the dudes that are causing tons of death and destruction? What kind of fucking logic are you rolling about in

[QUOTE=scout1;38523680]lol I guess Sandy really was Obama's secret CIA program[/QUOTE] In what world is this at all analogous to my statement.

[QUOTE=scout1;38523817]They support Israel because they live there, hence they will vote for the dudes that are causing tons of death and destruction? What kind of fucking logic are you rolling about in[/QUOTE] well read what he posted above, [QUOTE]"You overestimate the average persons knowledge of politics. People get hit by rockets from Gaza, and they expect the government to retaliate against them. Simple as that. "[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=scout1;38523817]They support Israel because they live there, hence they will vote for the dudes that are causing tons of death and destruction? What kind of fucking logic are you rolling about in[/QUOTE] Maybe he's talking about outside-of-Israel Israelis? I doubt he lives in Israel, and hence why he said, '[I]If it means anything, out of all the Israeli's I met...[/I]'

[QUOTE=scout1;38523731]Well I am waiting for them to explain how the violence in Gaza is all a secret plot to get re-elected.[/QUOTE] I forgot what the fallacy is, but you're oversimplifying it way too much as just a derivative of my statement.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;38523840]Nobody 'started' anything. It's a long ass chain stretching back decades upon decades of retaliatory strikes and operations undertaken by both sides. It's a never ending cycle of "they shot us, we shot back".[/QUOTE] Oh no I agree completely. I'm just paraphrasing it from his viewpoint, where it was all started by the recent assassination of a Hamas member or something.

[QUOTE=scout1;38523853]Oh no I agree completely. I'm just paraphrasing it from his viewpoint, where it was all started by the recent assassination of a Hamas member or something.[/QUOTE] Yeah, this latest operation was kicked off by assassinating the commander of Hamas and his successor. So, Hamas launched hundreds and hundreds of rockets and Israel launched hundreds and hundreds of rockets back.

[QUOTE=scout1;38523853]Oh no I agree completely. I'm just paraphrasing it from his viewpoint, where it was all started by the recent assassination of a Hamas member or something.[/QUOTE] The recent 100~ Grad strike was in retaliation to a senior Hamas official/general being assassinated by a precision strike.

Hopefully this ceasefire brings about actual change.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;38523934] Furthermore, there have been allegations that a vast portion of the rockets fired from Gaza, [I]actually land within Gaza itself. [/I] [URL="http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cc1_1351188404"]Like so.[/URL] [/QUOTE] That shit was fuckin pathetic. No wonder those rockets aren't do any damage. I'm sure average person can make a more deadly rocket out of plumbing fixtures and some googling.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;38523934] Furthermore, there have been allegations that a vast portion of the rockets fired from Gaza, [I]actually land within Gaza itself. [/I] [URL="http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cc1_1351188404"]Like so.[/URL] [/QUOTE] Nice try bro but that link/"source" is Syria.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;38524070]Nice try bro but that link/"source" is Syria.[/QUOTE] The allegations aren't confined to one vague video. [url]http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/update-israel-gaza-conflict[/url] Stratfor lists 640 rockets fired with 410 (64%) landing inside Israel. Where did the other 230 (36%) go?

[QUOTE=scout1;38524141]The allegations aren't confined to one vague video. [url]http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/update-israel-gaza-conflict[/url] Stratfor lists 640 rockets fired with 410 (64%) landing inside Israel. Where did the other 230 (36%) go?[/QUOTE] Its called the Iron Dome.

[QUOTE=CubeManv2;38523618]All your doing is just twisting stuff around, The plain fact is Hamas is bad to the entire world whereas Israel isn't. Maybe your ethnicity is blindly defending Palestine or something but I have issues with Israel on other keynotes. Go ahead and say "It's not the whole world", Well guess what the majority of the world isn't going to do anything about it because Hamas [i]needs to go.[/i] What your saying so far in this thread is that it's okay for Israel to be bombed but for them not to fight back. Hamas is firing rockets and missiles into Israel no matter what they do. They could sit on there hands for a month and Hamas will still fire rockets and shit. I fully support the fact Israel is throwing it right back at them. People consider Hamas heros? Well people considered Osama and his gang heroes too? So far it's been over a decade of war trying to clean them out. They don't give a shit either. We could sit on base all day and they will eventually just start shelling it even though American Troops haven't done any movements or caused any casualties for the past month. [b]They are Terrorists, They don't give a fuck. They just want to cause blind destruction.[/b][/QUOTE] Okay, let me stop you right there. What Israel is doing is extremely wrong. Hamas is retaliating. Before someone else goes 'Hamas are obviously terrorists', by that logic, so is Israel. We're not saying that it's ok for Israel to be bombed and not fight back, but rather than trying to find a more peaceful agreement, they attack them, bomb them, explicitly state that they want to raze them to the ground (including civilians). Not only that, but they act extremely shifty too. Israel started small, but they quickly took a lot of Palestine's land and immediately moved civilians into it to make it war crimes to attack it. Israel are more powerful at current, therefore SHOULD at least TRY to do the right thing.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;38524148]Its called the Iron Dome.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162180#.UKtOxIc73To]Not sure how reliable this source is[/url]

[QUOTE=scout1;38524175][url=http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162180#.UKtOxIc73To]Not sure how reliable this source is[/url][/QUOTE] No, Israelnationalnews is not a reliable source by any means. Their stories are so inaccurate or just plain false its unbelievable. They're a pro-settler religious Zionist movement that legitimately believes that the Iron Dome was a prophecy from God etc. Israelnationalnews and Debka are one of the worst sources you could use.

Most of the rockets do land in Israel. They just don't land in residential areas, so Iron Dome doesn't bother intercepting.

[QUOTE=Blackfire76;38524156]Okay, let me stop you right there. What Israel is doing is extremely wrong. Hamas is retaliating. Before someone else goes 'Hamas are obviously terrorists', by that logic, so is Israel. We're not saying that it's ok for Israel to be bombed and not fight back, but rather than trying to find a more peaceful agreement, they attack them, bomb them, explicitly state that they want to raze them to the ground (including civilians). Not only that, but they act extremely shifty too. Israel started small, but they quickly took a lot of Palestine's land and immediately moved civilians into it to make it war crimes to attack it. Israel are more powerful at current, therefore SHOULD at least TRY to do the right thing.[/QUOTE] No, we didn't try anything, no offering to live side by side, no repetitive offerings of peaceful agreements, no giving them lands, nothing at all! Hamas doesn't want none of those, I can understand them because that's not what they desire since before 1948. I'll explain as simple as I can. Hamas doesn't want [B]1 Jewish person[/B] in Israel, NONE, and to make it even more complicated to solve, they prefer us DEAD.. Mort, мертвый, 死, νεκρός död, What's here to solve? It's so simple!

[QUOTE=OzOMighty;38526704]No, we didn't try anything, no offering to live side by side, no repetitive offerings of peaceful agreements, no giving them lands, nothing at all! Hamas doesn't want none of those, I can understand them because that's not what they desire since before 1948. I'll explain as simple as I can. Hamas doesn't want [B]1 Jewish person[/B] in Israel, NONE, and to make it even more complicated to solve, they prefer us DEAD.. Mort, мертвый, 死, νεκρός död, What's here to solve? It's so simple![/QUOTE] It probably has something to do with all those civilians Israel has killed.

I'd like to know the following, just to clear some thoughts in my head: Does Hamas/Palestine have a formal, standing military? Because if it doesn't, then I would assume everyone who fires rockets into Israel is for all points and purposes, civilians. If that is so, then even if Israel kills those who are firing rockets, that would count toward a [I]civilian[/I] kill instead of a [I]military[/I] one, even if it's the right target. With that in mind, what is there to distinguish deaths in Gaza between actual innocents and those firing rockets (other than death of children, because that would be obvious)? A dead innocent in Gaza looks just like a dead rocket launcher, correct?