Turkey: Israel is a terrorist state that massacres children - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Aman VII;38522633]Oh come on, I'm not one to stand up for Israel but as in the current operation they're doing I support them. The reason the 1st Gaza War happened was because yearly increases of rockets being launched at Israel to the point in late 2008 it was getting ridiculous so they went in and did the best they could to take out the perpetrators. Hamas purposely and successfully uses average Palestinian people as human shields and whenever a sad occurrence of this shield getting hurt everyone immediately condemns Israel but fighting them isn't exactly easy with the tactics they pull. After the Gaza war rocket attacks plummeted in the following year and stayed low for a while but over the past year and a bit they've increased dramatically so here we are with basically the 2nd Gaza War to crack down hard on these rocket attacks yet again.[/QUOTE] I like how I get dumbs but not a single counter argument. What is so dumb about what I said? Sure in a way Israel has contributed to creating this problem that is Hamas and Hezbollah but this is their way of dealing with the problem and it is pretty effective overall.

[QUOTE=OzOMighty;38542371]See, you didn't even read what I said, and all you mentioned was Israel defending itself and also lying because Israel give electricity, food and medical supplies while [B]in war[/B] with Gaza, your country wouldn't do it that's for sure. So... You're a waste of time really, anyways I'm going to volunteer in the south which in Hamas' value is a crime. Last thing, say all you want, still Israel's going to knock off Hamas and even when things get better in Gaza and they will become a regular civilized country you'll still blame Israel/Jews for all the horrible things in the world. I'll wave for you if the news film me eating a Christian child while destroying Gaza for no apparent reason.[/QUOTE] Israel gives electricity (and bombed the only electrical plant Gaza had, oopsie lol), barely let humanitarian aid inside gaza and 65 out of the 105 mandatory trucks are let in Gaza. 450 000 people live there in terrible conditions, you seriously think giving them 65 trucks of everything is enough? You're basicly saying "you can't blame us we give them a tiny bit of food" while you keep them in the biggest concentration camp the world has seen. My country wouldn't randomly bomb civilians because a few terrorists might hide amongst them, and certainly wouldn't let a 60 years old war going. They'll never become a civilized country if you keep treating them like sub-humans. Hope the news film you eating propaganda, that'd be great. [editline]21st November 2012[/editline] oh wait I already said most of that, you just don't read

The attractiveness of Hamas need to be diminished by having the Netanyahu government empower Abbas and the PNA by actually negotiating with them. The more he's ignored and unsuccessful the less likely there will be support for alternative governments. Hell, Abbas wasn't even invited to the talk in Cairo. He's viewed as that much of a joke.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;38542531]I've pondered this recently with a friend of mine who is very pro-Israel. What choice do we have? Hamas is controlling Gaza. No amount of negotiation is going to make them somehow more lenient towards Israel because they have time and time again proclaimed that they do not recognize the state of Israel and wish to see it destroyed. Often using terms like "Zionist takeover" and "genocide." So, what is there left to do? If you wish Israel to cooperate with the Palestinian people, that is virtually impossible because they are controlled by the Hamas, which are a violent and oppressive government. (They've executed 8 Palestinians for suspicions of collaborating with Israel). Lets not pretend that the Palestinian people are also innocent. They've [I]elected [/I]Hamas, democratically. They wish to see Israel restrained/destroyed. Why is it that people claim the "Palestinians were pushed into a corner by Israel, that's why they're extremists!" but never apply the same logic towards Israel when only recently a poll that showed a majority of Israel supports Palestinian discrimination somehow makes us "racist cunts", but not them?[/QUOTE] They didn't elect Hamas, they elected Fatah. Hamas overthrew Fatah. Also, you guys do have a choice to supply them with competent aid and lift the blockade. Hamas needs to go. But you should ask your friend what he thinks about jewish settlements in the west bank, most of the settlers simply say "our book says we own this land".

[QUOTE=Marbalo;38542531]I've pondered this recently with a friend of mine who is very pro-Israel. What choice do we have? Hamas is controlling Gaza. No amount of negotiation is going to make them somehow more lenient towards Israel because they have time and time again proclaimed that they do not recognize the state of Israel and wish to see it destroyed. Often using terms like "Zionist takeover" and "genocide." So, what is there left to do? If you wish Israel to cooperate with the Palestinian people, that is virtually impossible because they are controlled by the Hamas, which are a violent and oppressive government. (They've executed 8 Palestinians for suspicions of collaborating with Israel). Lets not pretend that the Palestinian people are also innocent. They've [I]elected [/I]Hamas, democratically. They wish to see Israel restrained/destroyed. Why is it that people claim the "Palestinians were pushed into a corner by Israel, that's why they're extremists!" but never apply the same logic towards Israel when only recently a poll that showed a majority of Israel supports Palestinian discrimination somehow makes us "racist cunts", but not them?[/QUOTE] Well, the current tactic should never have been on the table. 100+ civilians killed is not acceptable. The problem is what Israel is currently doing just persuades more Palestinians to become militants. Of course, there is no easy way out: the hole that has been dug is quite deep. I am not going to claim to have a solution because I don't, but I know this is certainly not it.

In my opinion Israel should go in for awhile and purge Hamas from Gaza.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;38542760]Hamas had the popular vote victory. [img]http://i.imgur.com/scAT1.png[/img] We can't just lift the blockade because that simply opens the doors towards mass shipments of weaponry for Hamas from various Arab states like Iran and others. That is bad for [I]both [/I]sides. The settlement issue is a completely different, unrelated subject. The PLO and the West Bank are vastly different from the Gaza strip.[/QUOTE] A popular vote victory, which was a plurality win of only a few percentage points, with their support most concentrated in the Gaza Strip. You also claim that Israel cannot lift the economic blockade on Gaza (one they illegally imposed), cannot grant a Palestinian state, and cannot leave the settlements, yet can see no reason why such actions might drive people to support Hamas even more than they already are? Does it not strike you as at all hypocritical to treat Israel and Palestine as if they are on equal footing? Palestine, whether in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank is an unrecognized state with a hardly stable government and currently under economic blockade, largely without a well-trained or organized military of any sort. Because of this, any one person, fringe terrorist or otherwise, firing a rocket would constitute 'breaking the ceasefire' by Hamas, so how could anyone hope to reign that in? Especially without a formal government and a humanitarian crisis ongoing?

[QUOTE=scout1;38521631]I guess this makes the US a terrorist state that kills children too[/QUOTE] Well...yeah. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONuuwJSRCDI[/media]

[QUOTE=laserguided;38542600]They didn't elect Hamas, they elected Fatah. Hamas overthrew Fatah.[/QUOTE] [quote=wiki]After the formation of the Hamas-led cabinet on March 20, 2006, tensions between Fatah and Hamas militants progressively rose in the Gaza strip as Fatah commanders refused to take orders from the government while the Palestinian Authority initiated a campaign of demonstrations, assassinations and abductions against Hamas which led to Hamas responding[/quote]

[QUOTE=Marbalo;38544830]Whoa there, I never claimed Israel cannot leave the settlements or that it couldn't lift the economic blockade, because those are things that I support wholeheartedly. However granting Palestine a state would only further Hamas' goals, because they are currently the ruling government. They are, in essence, a terrorist organization that took upon itself the role of official governance. Only after they are either dismantled or destroyed will Israel actually have all the incentives in the world to take further steps to peacefully coexist with Palestine. And the fact that almost half of Gaza wanted someone as extremist and radical as they are clearly shows that not all Palestinians wish for peace, but rather revenge. This is understandable, and in no way meant to somehow present the Palestinians as savages, because the same exact thing is happening in Israel with the recent merge of two center-right political movements that are bent to forcefully wipe Hamas off the map, rather than negotiate with them. I understand their support for Hamas, but without their cooperation, Israel will be the only party in this mess that actually tries to sort things out, and that [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)"]never [/URL]goes well. Because usually, this is done by force without the consent or popular support of the population itself. Literally every single blockade and checkpoint imposed on Palestinian civilians is a direct retaliatory measure to curb terrorist activity to the bare minimum. However, why don't the Palestinians simply work together with one another and distance themselves as much as possible from these extremists? Clearly, as you have said, Israel is a well-developed, prospering nation while Gaza is barely holding itself together. Somebody here has to put their hatred and ego aside and actually deal with the main problem in this entire conflict. Look at it this way; If Israel decides to stop attacking Hamas once and for all, and agrees to lift the blockade in its entirety, what do you think will happen? It's almost guaranteed that all income made by Palestinian civilians is going to go straight towards the government - Hamas. Hamas will then invest this money in its military and paramilitary groups to further suppress the population, rather than better the Gaza Strip.[URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/20/hamas-executes-informants-israel-gaza"]This is the kind of government that publicly executes people who are suspected of treason. [/URL] A government that reaches this sort of low-point is a clear indication about their intentions. How long would we have to wait for the Palestinian population to revolt against this regime and how many lives will be lost until then? On the other hand, if Palestine decides to stop holding a grudge against Israel, Hamas can be easily decimated from within simply by the pure will and cooperation of the population, within months. With Hamas gone, and a new party formed that would be hopefully pro-peace rather than pro-Israel or pro-Palestine, we could reach a peace treaty and put this almost a century old clusterfuck behind us. Of course, this is just a pipe dream. But the mere fact we treat it as one, clearly shows that both parties are well-entrenched and it's going to take years if not decades and god knows how many lives until we solve it at this rate, where it's basically "they shot us, we shot back" over and over again.[/QUOTE] Well, you know Fatah still exists and represents nearly the same amount of the electorate as Hamas. However, I can't see how any Palestinian supporting Hamas would be able to reach the conclusion that their support is hurting them in the long run, largely because from their perspective the idea of folding to what Israel wants is an egregious act in and of itself. Not necessarily because Israel's existence is irreconcilable, but because Israel's actions against Palestinians seem to exceed the possibility for compromise.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;38544830]Literally every single blockade and checkpoint imposed on Palestinian civilians is a direct retaliatory measure to curb terrorist activity to the bare minimum. However, why don't the Palestinians simply work together with one another and distance themselves as much as possible from these extremists?[/QUOTE] Because pride and dignity matter and when the choice is between angry extremists who shout about justice for your people or racist Israelis who block food and medicine supplies and treat you like dirt on a person-to-person basis, it's hard to see the latter as such a great option.

Israeli logic: Hey I lived here before, I should forcefully take 2/3 of the house. And if the current-owner tries to protect himself. I have the rights to kill him!

[QUOTE=EpikMonster;38551042]Israeli logic: Hey I lived here before, I should forcefully take 2/3 of the house. And if the current-owner tries to protect himself. I have the rights to kill him![/QUOTE] Great analysis. This is pretty much exactly what's going on. 10/10 very thorough and unbiased

[QUOTE=scout1;38521631]clearly [editline]19th November 2012[/editline] I guess this makes the US a terrorist state that kills children too[/QUOTE] US foreign policy pretty much makes the US a terrorist state. [editline]22nd November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Marbalo;38544830]Whoa there, I never claimed Israel cannot leave the settlements or that it couldn't lift the economic blockade, because those are things that I support wholeheartedly. However granting Palestine a state would only further Hamas' goals, because they are currently the ruling government. They are, in essence, a terrorist organization that took upon itself the role of official governance. Only after they are either dismantled or destroyed will Israel actually have all the incentives in the world to take further steps to peacefully coexist with Palestine. And the fact that almost half of Gaza wanted someone as extremist and radical as they are clearly shows that not all Palestinians wish for peace, but rather revenge. This is understandable, and in no way meant to somehow present the Palestinians as savages, because the same exact thing is happening in Israel with the recent merge of two center-right political movements that are bent to forcefully wipe Hamas off the map, rather than negotiate with them. I understand their support for Hamas, but without their cooperation, Israel will be the only party in this mess that actually tries to sort things out, and that [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)"]never [/URL]goes well. Because usually, this is done by force without the consent or popular support of the population itself. Literally every single blockade and checkpoint imposed on Palestinian civilians is a direct retaliatory measure to curb terrorist activity to the bare minimum. However, why don't the Palestinians simply work together with one another and distance themselves as much as possible from these extremists? Clearly, as you have said, Israel is a well-developed, prospering nation while Gaza is barely holding itself together. Somebody here has to put their hatred and ego aside and actually deal with the main problem in this entire conflict. Look at it this way; If Israel decides to stop attacking Hamas once and for all, and agrees to lift the blockade in its entirety, what do you think will happen? It's almost guaranteed that all income made by Palestinian civilians is going to go straight towards the government - Hamas. Hamas will then invest this money in its military and paramilitary groups to further suppress the population, rather than better the Gaza Strip.[URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/20/hamas-executes-informants-israel-gaza"]This is the kind of government that publicly executes people who are suspected of treason. [/URL] A government that reaches this sort of low-point is a clear indication about their intentions. How long would we have to wait for the Palestinian population to revolt against this regime and how many lives will be lost until then? On the other hand, if Palestine decides to stop holding a grudge against Israel, Hamas can be easily decimated from within simply by the pure will and cooperation of the population, within months. With Hamas gone, and a new party formed that would be hopefully pro-peace rather than pro-Israel or pro-Palestine, we could reach a peace treaty and put this almost a century old clusterfuck behind us. Of course, this is just a pipe dream. But the mere fact we treat it as one, clearly shows that both parties are well-entrenched and it's going to take years if not decades and god knows how many lives until we solve it at this rate, where it's basically "they shot us, we shot back" over and over again.[/QUOTE] Peace treaty? Almost every single ceasefire and negotiation has been broken, broken off or fucked with by Israel.

[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;38542455]Israel gives electricity (and bombed the only electrical plant Gaza had, oopsie lol), barely let humanitarian aid inside gaza and 65 out of the 105 mandatory trucks are let in Gaza. 450 000 people live there in terrible conditions, you seriously think giving them 65 trucks of everything is enough? You're basicly saying "you can't blame us we give them a tiny bit of food" while you keep them in the biggest concentration camp the world has seen. [B]My country wouldn't randomly bomb civilians because a few terrorists might hide amongst them,[/B] and certainly wouldn't let a 60 years old war going. They'll never become a civilized country if you keep treating them like sub-humans. Hope the news film you eating propaganda, that'd be great. [/QUOTE] That's not true if you're an American.

[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;38542455]My country wouldn't randomly bomb civilians because a few terrorists might hide amongst them, and certainly wouldn't let a 60 years old war going.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between being good and not being powerful enough to do evil.

[QUOTE=OzOMighty;38538214] [IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262056_10151539071619852_1052871654_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] oh my god

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38554208]oh my god[/QUOTE] That picture hit me like a sack of complete bullshit and a side of propaganda. Turns out it was.

[QUOTE=OzOMighty;38538214]You can keep being stubborn and praise a culture of killing, massacres, terrorism and hate just to NOT praise the Israeli people, [B]even though they simply live to love and love to live.[/B][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=OzOMighty;38542221][B]I'm out because I'm going to volunteer in the south, and we organized a ceasefire (not Hamas) and if they break it, we will probably permanently break the legs and arms of each and every Hamas terrorist.[/B][/QUOTE] oh yeah living to love

[QUOTE=OzOMighty;38538214]So white people that conquered and established a country in a much larger land (North America) isn't justified too. Let me remind you that they didn't ask the UN to establish a country, they just violently conquered North America. Correct me if I'm wrong but they didn't ask the local people permission or find a plan to divide North America, or peace treaty. I guess it's different when it comes to evil Zionist Jews. We won't give more land because last time that Ariel Sharon did it, they just gained more range for their rockets, so it doesn't seem like a smart decision any more. The simple question is, what would your country do if Palestine, that pimple was stuck in YOUR neighborhood launching rockets into London or where ever you are from, and still ASK for more land even though their real goal is to kick you out of the whole country and if there is an opportunity, to kill you... Oh and just one small addition, the world wants you to give up your land and give it to the Palestinians. You know what I said is true that's why nobody ever comments on the truth, you're just stating statistics all the time with nothing to claim. You can keep being stubborn and praise a culture of killing, massacres, terrorism and hate just to NOT praise the Israeli people, even though they simply live to love and love to live. That's what you think of the situation? Fine, would you accept to have Gaza stuck to your country? Please just take them away from us. [editline]21st November 2012[/editline] [B]Does images explain the differences between a hate state and a loving civilization?[/B] [IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262056_10151539071619852_1052871654_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] You don't happen to be part of the JIDF, right?

Funny, I get rated boxes only by Israelis.. The truth hurts!

[QUOTE=scout1;38521631]I guess this makes the US a terrorist state that kills children too[/QUOTE] about that..

[QUOTE=EpikMonster;38555793]Funny, I get rated boxes only by Israelis.. The truth hurts![/QUOTE] Please share with us your secret method of determining who is Israeli if they don't list it in their profile or mention it in the thread (I'm not Israeli so it's not working so well so far)

[QUOTE=TH89;38556434]Please share with us your secret method of determining who is Israeli if they don't list it in their profile or mention it in the thread (I'm not Israeli so it's not working so well so far)[/QUOTE] Shutup Israeli.

TH quit bullshitting. in previous posts you mentioned that you are Israeli. now shush.

[QUOTE=EpikMonster;38560817]TH quit bullshitting. in previous posts you mentioned that you are Israeli. now shush.[/QUOTE] If you did even a small amount of searching from the links on his profile, you could see that he's an American in California.

Might be Israeli living in California, might be this, might be that, I might have been too quick to judge. I will re-phrase my post: "The only ones rating me boxes are pro-Israeli dudes" -- Everyone happy? Better?

[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;38561036]If you did even a small amount of searching from the links on his profile, you could see that he's an American in California.[/QUOTE] Must be Israeli.

Update: [b] Israeli soldiers open fire in 'buffer zone'[/b] [i]One Palestinian has been killed and 10 teenagers wounded as Israeli soldiers open fire.[/i] [quote]One adult has been killed and 10 teenagers wounded as Israeli soldiers, stationed at the border line between Khan Younis and Israel, opened fire on them, medical sources say. Witnesses told Al Jazeera that the teenagers entered the disputed area of the "buffer zone", which is 300m along all the Gaza-Israel border, south east of the Gaza Strip. Al Jazeera's Nicole Johnston reporting from Gaza City said they had received reports that a number of farmers entered Khan Younis in the buffer zone, which ordinarily is a no-go zone, to check on their crops. She said they may have also wanted to pray. She said they may have had confused information about that buffer zone as there has been lots of information about the easing of travel restrictions as part of the ceasefire agreement brokered on Wednesday night. This is the second person to be killed since the truce came into effect. [url]http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/201211238226924973.html[/url][/quote] Goddamn it

[QUOTE=TH89;38561978]Update: [b] Israeli soldiers open fire in 'buffer zone'[/b] [i]One Palestinian has been killed and 10 teenagers wounded as Israeli soldiers open fire.[/i] Goddamn it[/QUOTE] [quote] A relative of the dead man, who was at the scene, told Reuters that Qdeih had been trying to place a Hamas flag on the fence. He added that an Israeli soldier had fired into the air three times before Qdeih was hit in the head by a bullet. [url]http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/palestinians-one-killed-several-wounded-by-idf-fire-on-gaza-border[/url] [/quote] Ignoring warning shots and approaching an area where he shouldn't have been...