[QUOTE=Zuimzado;47546692]And even then, [sp]wasn't Frank Miller's portrayal of Superman kinda shitty because he made him a lapdog of the government and a boy scout, which Superman really isn't?[/sp][/QUOTE]
He isn't generally, but that's the fear with Superman. He has a sense of moral absolutism and the means to back it up. Depending on who's telling the story, he's practically a God-- unstoppable by any means other than sheer persuasion. A lot of the stories that pit him as a "bad guy" have him doing what he thinks is right, only for his sense of justice to have unforseen consequences or to go too far. Like in the Justice League cartoon, an alternate timeline Superman snaps after The Flash is executed by Lex Luthor, who had used his wealth, influence, and charisma to become president. Superman determines that the only way a man like Lex Luthor could become president is if the system that made it possible is fundamentally broken. He convinces the other members of the league that the only way to really protect the people is to lead them personally by dismantling the government and stepping in as the new governing body. Anybody who poses a serious threat to the safety and security gets some heatvision brain surgery to remove their violent and rebellious tendencies, etc.
So that's probably what Dawn of Justice will take influence from. In Man of Steel, thousands of people died. Tens of thousands, probably. Metropolis, one of the biggest cities in the country, was fuckin' laid flat with no time for evacuation or shelter. It makes 9/11 look like a stubbed toe, and it's because Superman showed no restraint. This unstoppable alien dude with Godlike power just got in a row with an old acquaintance and killed like, a bajillion people. Even if his heart was in the right place, and even if he did save the world, look at the cost of it.
Dawn of Justice will be about the world (and Batman) reacting to this new ultimate power.
[QUOTE=Jitterz;47546320]I don't get it, wouldn't Superman be able to just shit stomp Batman? It wouldn't even be a fight.
I don't know anything about Superman v Batman, is Batman evil or something?[/QUOTE]
superman is labeled as a false god because of the kinds of things that happens whenever he fights (man of steel, thousands of casualties) while saying he's protecting humanity.
[QUOTE=madnath619;47545384]"Do you bleed? You will!"
Did someone actually think that's a good line?[/QUOTE]
I thought it was cool, but that's my opinion.
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;47545154]well snyder did claim that this movie was still going to be the sequel to man of steel and that he will focus the story more on superman than batman.[/QUOTE]
which is good.
[editline]17th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;47545034]Does anyone actually want Batman vs Superman movies?[/QUOTE]
Batman & Superman Justice league movies yes, Batman vs Superman not so much but i'll take what i can get at this point.
I thought it looked kinda cool, I'm glad it's really dark and gritty because DC characters any less dark and gritty are just silly as fuck in a liveaction scenario.
You guys expect a damn lot for a movie most of you aren't even going to go buy.
-
Yo that Batman looks fucking dope.
So Superman will be struggling with his omnipotence existence and Batman rises up to bring him down a notch?
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;47546419]It's not really a battle of brawn. In a straight up fight, yeah, Superman could just fling Bruce into space. In the source material, the armored suit [sp]is essentially just a distraction. Bruce knows Superman will use restraint, so he builds the power armor to make himself just tough enough to distract Superman for a few minutes, while Green Arrow lines up a shot with a kryptonite arrow. Even then, it's only enough to daze him for a few seconds. He wasn't trying to win the fight, only to make a point about Superman's fallibility. It was to basically say, "you aren't God. Don't forget that."[/sp][/QUOTE]
Right but in what scenario would superman and batman be fighting where Superman wouldn't just immediately neutralise Batman, he knows he's smart enough to swing those plans so why the fuck is Superman not capable of going one step further and just outsmarting Batman by wasting him at extreme range?
[QUOTE=AaronM202;47551274]Theres only so dark and gritty you can make a man dressed in a tight spandex costume punching another man in a tight spandex costume thats themed after an animal, who punches clowns, drives animal themed vehicles, and works with children to stop crime, before it gets ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
That's why you make them stop wearing spandex :v:
[QUOTE=Rapscallion92;47551308]Right but in what scenario would superman and batman be fighting where Superman wouldn't just immediately neutralise Batman, he knows he's smart enough to swing those plans so why the fuck is Superman not capable of going one step further and just outsmarting Batman by wasting him at extreme range?[/QUOTE]
they've never met before so no, supes wouldn't know that
Here's the thing, a lot of people seem to be confused about why Superman and Batman would even fight or why it would be much of a fight considering that Superman has godlike powers and Batman has no powers what so ever. In a straight up unprepared fight, Superman would win, no doubt. However Batman is the world's greatest detective, he's smart and well prepared. What they seem to be going for is that Batman tracks down Superman and initiates the fight, which means that Batman has done his fair share of research on Superman's abilities and how far he is willing to go. I think they're going to use the ending of Man of Steel where [sp]Superman snaps Zod's neck[/sp] as a way of Superman to come to his conclusion that he [sp]should never intentionally kill anyone again.[/sp] This puts Batman at an advantage, because he'll learn that [sp]Superman is holding back, that he doesn't want to kill him.[/sp] Using his armored suit to beef himself up enough to be able to at least put up a fight, as well as having a few tricks up his sleeve (again, well prepared), he will probably take Superman down a notch.
What I seem to be getting from the trailer is that people are questioning Superman and his abilities. After the events of Man of Steel, they don't trust him and think he's dangerous. I think there's a possibility that Superman has gotten full of himself, at this point he has really started seeing himself as a god of sorts. That's going to be the point Batman wants to make, that he's not as infallible and unbeatable as he thinks he is. Those are just my two cents, anyway.
DC seems unable to make a non-gritty movie currently, not even with their most idealistic hero involved. :v:
[QUOTE=madnath619;47545384]"Do you bleed? You will!"
Did someone actually think that's a good line?[/QUOTE]
embrace the grit :v:
[QUOTE=Jocken300;47552795]Here's the thing, a lot of people seem to be confused about why Superman and Batman would even fight or why it would be much of a fight considering that Superman has godlike powers and Batman has no powers what so ever. In a straight up unprepared fight, Superman would win, no doubt. However Batman is the world's greatest detective, he's smart and well prepared. What they seem to be going for is that Batman tracks down Superman and initiates the fight, which means that Batman has done his fair share of research on Superman's abilities and how far he is willing to go. I think they're going to use the ending of Man of Steel where [sp]Superman snaps Zod's neck[/sp] as a way of Superman to come to his conclusion that he [sp]should never intentionally kill anyone again.[/sp] This puts Batman at an advantage, because he'll learn that [sp]Superman is holding back, that he doesn't want to kill him.[/sp] Using his armored suit to beef himself up enough to be able to at least put up a fight, as well as having a few tricks up his sleeve (again, well prepared), he will probably take Superman down a notch.
What I seem to be getting from the trailer is that people are questioning Superman and his abilities. After the events of Man of Steel, they don't trust him and think he's dangerous. I think there's a possibility that Superman has gotten full of himself, at this point he has really started seeing himself as a god of sorts. That's going to be the point Batman wants to make, that he's not as infallible and unbeatable as he thinks he is. Those are just my two cents, anyway.[/QUOTE]
Ye, that's the only kind of victory Batman could win. In a 1-on-1 fight to the death, it'd be no contest whatsoever. The only way Batman can go toe to toe with Superman is under the condition that Superman is intentionally holding back, and even then ole Bruce is going to have to accept that he's not going to totally decommission the dude. A moral victory is about all he can hope for.
"Look, I taught you an important lesson!"
Then Superman is all, "wow, it took nearly killing you to see that I was wrong. Yowza! Sheesh! What a fool I have been!"
as much as i like batman way more than superman, wouldn't superman almost certainly whoop batman's ass? he actually has superpowers and shit
i'm not a comic book nut or anything so i guess i'm missing something
[editline] .[/editline]
oh someone already said that, no one gave a straight answer though so my question still stands
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;47545699]No arguments on Dredd. That movie fuckin' ruled.
As far as making movies about the slightly less publicized DC heroes, I'm totally on board with that, too. I'd prefer that, even! I'd choke a bitch for a Doctor Fate solo. Realistically, though, that isn't likely to happen without Batman vs Superman to set the stage. Tons of people are basically guaranteed to see it, because everybody knows Batman and Superman, and with the movie already confirmed to have at least cameos from Wonder Woman and Aquaman, and rumors of the Flash, it will introduce viewers who aren't already broader DC fans to a lot of other characters. A Justice League universe is the easiest way to shine a light on less public, but awesome characters like Doctor Fate, Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, etc.[/QUOTE]
I heard that they're cutting Martian Manhunter from future projects because he's just "too weird."
Meanwhile GotG comes out with a talking raccoon and a walking Vin Diesel Tree and it makes millions.
I'm really worried for the DC cinematic universe.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553311]I heard that they're cutting Martian Manhunter from future projects because he's just "too weird."
Meanwhile GotG comes out with a talking raccoon and a walking Vin Diesel Tree and it makes millions.
I'm really worried for the DC cinematic universe.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't that one of Goyer's many blunders that led WB into effectively scrapping him?
[QUOTE=Chicken_Chaser;47553325]Wasn't that one of Goyer's many blunders that led WB into effectively scrapping him?[/QUOTE]
Fuck Goyer.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;47553259]Ye, that's the only kind of victory Batman could win. In a 1-on-1 fight to the death, it'd be no contest whatsoever. The only way Batman can go toe to toe with Superman is under the condition that Superman is intentionally holding back, and even then ole Bruce is going to have to accept that he's not going to totally decommission the dude. A moral victory is about all he can hope for.
"Look, I taught you an important lesson!"
Then Superman is all, "wow, it took nearly killing you to see that I was wrong. Yowza! Sheesh! What a fool I have been!"[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's what I'm picturing as well. Since they've already stated that the movie is mainly going to focus on Superman, it makes sense that Batman would be the main catalyst in Superman's story arch where he has to learn the lesson that he's not indestructible.
[QUOTE=Shark Cat;47553297]as much as i like batman way more than superman, wouldn't superman almost certainly whoop batman's ass? he actually has superpowers and shit
i'm not a comic book nut or anything so i guess i'm missing something
[editline] .[/editline]
oh someone already said that, no one gave a straight answer though so my question still stands[/QUOTE]
It's hard to give a straight answer to the question, but it's pretty much been answered by Big Dumb American. Superman has a major advantage with his superpowers, but Batman has an advantage with his wealth, gear and intellect. Batman wouldn't be able to win against Superman in an unprepared fight to the death, however with the right preparation and the knowledge that Superman is going to hold back, he could at the very least put up a decent fight and come out on top with a moral victory. Or you know, he'd use kryptonite.
Either way, there's not going to be a winner in this movie. Batman's going to come after Superman, and they're going to fight for a bit, and at the end of the day they'll both learn a thing or two from each other and come to the conclusion that despite their differences they're fighting for the same greater good.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;47553259]Ye, that's the only kind of victory Batman could win. In a 1-on-1 fight to the death, it'd be no contest whatsoever. The only way Batman can go toe to toe with Superman is under the condition that Superman is intentionally holding back, and even then ole Bruce is going to have to accept that he's not going to totally decommission the dude. A moral victory is about all he can hope for.
"Look, I taught you an important lesson!"
Then Superman is all, "wow, it took nearly killing you to see that I was wrong. Yowza! Sheesh! What a fool I have been!"[/QUOTE]
Haven't you read The Dark Knight Returns?
It's where this is inspired by and Superman holds back, also Batmans goal is never winning the fight but showing the world and Superman himself that he can be hurt and beaten.
[editline]18th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Shark Cat;47553297]as much as i like batman way more than superman, wouldn't superman almost certainly whoop batman's ass? he actually has superpowers and shit
i'm not a comic book nut or anything so i guess i'm missing something
[editline] .[/editline]
oh someone already said that, no one gave a straight answer though so my question still stands[/QUOTE]
In the comics Batman uses electrification and cryptonite
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47553311]I heard that they're cutting Martian Manhunter from future projects because he's just "too weird."
Meanwhile GotG comes out with a talking raccoon and a walking Vin Diesel Tree and it makes millions.
I'm really worried for the DC cinematic universe.[/QUOTE]
Really? Where'd you read this. I love the Martian Manhunter! He's one of my favorite characters, so this is definitely a disappointment.
[editline]18th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killuah;47553539]Haven't you read The Dark Knight Returns?
It's where this is inspired by and Superman holds back, also Batmans goal is never winning the fight but showing the world that Superman himself that he can be hurt and beaten.
[editline]18th April 2015[/editline]
In the comics Batman uses electrification and cryptonite[/QUOTE]
Nope, just saw the movie. That's basically what I said, too! From what I remember, [sp]all Batman's trick with Ollie does is weaken Superman enough to give him a quick whallop that Superman pretty quickly recovers from, and then he fakes his own death or something in order to avoid retaliation.
It wasn't a straight up "I whooped you good" style of victory where Superman couldn't have just gotten right back up and chucked him into the sun if he felt like it. It was just a lesson. A reminder that the Superman isn't infallible. He even gave a little speech to the effect of, [I]"I managed to make you bleed and I'm just some old bastard idiot in a metal suit, so, uh, you know-- watch your butt. You're not God, don't act like it, etc, etc."[/I][/sp]
Every time I hear Batman vs. Superman, I immediately think of Superman instantly turning Batman into a pile of guts with one punch.
Batman has a plan for every other Suoerhero AFAIK and that's why he's the most dangerous one.
i still can't believe peter jackson is directing this
[QUOTE=AaronM202;47551274]Theres only so dark and gritty you can make a man dressed in a tight spandex costume punching another man in a tight spandex costume thats themed after an animal, who punches clowns, drives animal themed vehicles, and works with children to stop crime, before it gets ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Well when you put it that way.
[QUOTE=Killuah;47556188]Batman has a plan for every other Suoerhero AFAIK and that's why he's the most dangerous one.[/QUOTE]
there's a whole storyline where batman's contingency plan gets stolen by villains and it has the civilian identity and weaknesses to every one of batman's allies.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;47551274]Theres only so dark and gritty you can make a man dressed in a tight spandex costume punching another man in a tight spandex costume thats themed after an animal, who punches clowns, drives animal themed vehicles, and works with children to stop crime, before it gets ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Well it obviously works well unless you're the type that only likes Adam West's Batman.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;47559198]there's a whole storyline where batman's contingency plan gets stolen by villains and it has the civilian identity and weaknesses to every one of batman's allies.[/QUOTE]
I kinda dislike "villains steal the heros awesome stuff" storylines. It's lazy writing.
As much as a lot of people dislike it i have to give the New 52 credit, it had a really good way of setting the Justice League up from the start....they still fought but not how it's portrayed in BvS and i'm not overly the biggest fan of Frank Miller.