Restaurant in Hawaii Bans Trump Voters, Faces Immediate Backlash - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51597833]do you think protected classes are just another flavor of totalitarianism? and do you believe these protections shouldn't extend to political beliefs?[/QUOTE] I believe they are slightly total totalitarian. However they are in place to insure the safety and success of people for something that is out of their control. Except for religion, citizenship, familial status. However I certainly believe you should be able to refuse service to someone who isn't a citizen. Someones political beliefs are within their control so no, I don't believe political affiliation should be protected.

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51596935]Calling trump voters nazis... classic people like this is why trump won.[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/5g9ztb/this_is_why_trump_won/?st=IXAOQUQF&sh=914699a7[/url]

[QUOTE=MadPro119;51597823]Because the will of the people decided that there are specific classes that are protected. These classes are things that you can not change and have no help over.[/QUOTE] The will of the people isn't the guiding principal behind the American judicial system, nor should it be.

[QUOTE=Paramud;51597852]The will of the people isn't the guiding principal behind the American judicial system, nor should it be.[/QUOTE] Its a representative democracy, what do you think is the guiding principle?

[QUOTE=MadPro119;51597843]I believe they are slightly total totalitarian. However they are in place to insure the safety and success of people for something that is out of their control. Someones political beliefs are within their control so no, I don't believe political affiliation should be protected.[/QUOTE] political beliefs might be under your control, but the economy isn't. which means that if you live in a predominantly liberal area and one of these restaurants opens up... if you don't have the means to move out, if your way of life is tied to this area, then how much control do you really have?

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51597855]political beliefs might be under your control, but the economy isn't. which means that if you live in a predominantly liberal area and one of these restaurants opens up... if you don't have the means to move out, if your way of life is tied to this area, then how much control do you really have?[/QUOTE] You are not entitled to receive service from that restaurant. Also who opens a restaurant in a primarily liberal area but doesn't serve liberals. Bad business sense their. Also who moves because a new restaurant that just opened doesn't serve you...

[QUOTE=MadPro119;51597854]Its a representative democracy, what do you think is the guiding principle?[/QUOTE] The political system is a democracy, yes. The judicial system, which is what this case falls under, is not. The guiding principal for the America's judicial system has always been that justice is blind and treats all equally.

[QUOTE=MadPro119;51597858]You are not entitled to receive service from the restaurant.[/QUOTE] no, and neither is everyone else. except everyone else gets to take full advantage of their services, and you (the hypothetical trump supporter 'you') don't, for no practical reason. if you wanna be principled that's fine, but i'm a fan of logic, and there's nothing logical about this [editline]29th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=MadPro119;51597858]Also who moves because a new restaurant that just opened doesn't serve you...[/QUOTE] ever been to a small town?

[QUOTE=Paramud;51597877]The political system is a democracy, yes. The judicial system, which is what this case falls under, is not. The guiding principal for the America's judicial system has always been that justice is blind and treats all equally.[/QUOTE] In reality, our judicial system is politics. News flash, it isn't blind, and it doesn't treat all equally.

[QUOTE=MadPro119;51597858]You are not entitled to receive service from that restaurant. Also who opens a restaurant in a primarily liberal area but doesn't serve liberals. Bad business sense their. Also who moves because a new restaurant that just opened doesn't serve you...[/QUOTE] The problem with the scenario is that eventually you have entire towns that refuse to serve anyone who's black. It might sound crazy but remember that this was fairly normal as little as fifty years ago. [editline]29th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=MadPro119;51597883]In reality, our judicial system is politics. News flash, it isn't blind, and it doesn't treat all equally.[/QUOTE] The principal behind the system and how effectively the system practices it aren't the same thing.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51597879]no, and neither is everyone else. except everyone else gets to take full advantage of their services, and you (the hypothetical trump supporter 'you') don't, for no practical reason. if you wanna be principled that's fine, but i'm a fan of logic, and there's nothing logical about this [/QUOTE] Everyone else gets to eat at the restaurant because the owner of the private property allows them to. The practical reason is that the person who owns the business can choose who to sell their private property to and who to associate with as long as it does encroach upon a protected class. [editline]29th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Paramud;51597887]The problem with the scenario is that eventually you have entire towns that refuse to serve anyone who's black. It might sound crazy but remember that this was fairly normal as little as fifty years ago. [/QUOTE] That was last weeks thread, now were on political affiliation. Currently their could be entire towns that don't serve based on political affiliation, but guess what, there aren't. [editline]29th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Paramud;51597887] The principal behind the system and how effectively the system practices it aren't the same thing.[/QUOTE] Okay my bad for getting into principle. Lets look at reality. In reality our judicial system is political.

[QUOTE=MadPro119;51597895]Everyone else gets to eat at the restaurant because the owner of the private property allows them to. The practical reason is that the person who owns the business can choose who to sell their private property to and who to associate with as long as it does encroach upon a protected class.[/QUOTE] i guess there's not much more to talk about here. i believe political beliefs should be protected in this case (as long as they don't override any other preexisting laws like inciting violence obv), you don't

[QUOTE=MadPro119;51597895]That was last weeks thread, now were on political affiliation. Currently their could be entire towns that don't serve based on political affiliation, but guess what, there aren't.[/QUOTE] Mainly because allowing discrimination based on political affiliation is a bad idea.

[QUOTE=Paramud;51597914]Mainly because allowing discrimination based on political affiliation is a bad idea.[/QUOTE] But it is allowed today and not causing any problems. One silly restaurant in Hawaii dares try it and look at the shit storm that has resulted. I can't believe more Americans don't try and fight for their freedoms.

[QUOTE=MadPro119;51597921]One silly restaurant in Hawaii dares try it and look at the shit storm that has resulted.[/quote] Which is evidence that it's a good thing, how? I really don't understand your argument. [quote]I can't believe more Americans don't try and fight for their freedoms.[/QUOTE] And this part just baffles me even more. Who are you talking about? The people fighting against political discrimination? The people fighting for the freedom to... Discriminate? You're just really god damn confusing.

[QUOTE=MadPro119;51597921]But it is allowed today and not causing any problems. One silly restaurant in Hawaii dares try it and look at the shit storm that has resulted. I can't believe more Americans don't try and fight for their freedoms.[/QUOTE] My belief that Americans fight for freedom died when the Patriot Act passed and there wasn't a bigger shitstorm over the NSA.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51596927][t]https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/k9LW1OnCJ7ZXFFo8XnwI3k6E9rI=/1600x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7711881/o_22.jpg[/t] [url]http://www.eater.com/2016/12/28/14099564/hawaii-restaurant-bans-trump-voters[/url] These people are idiots.[/QUOTE] While I don't agree with these restaurant owners, I'll play Devil's advocate here. I can't imagine why any Trump supporter would have a problem with this. After all, the man and his VP ran on an election promise of making it legal for businesses to discriminate against gays on religious grounds. How is this any different? This is the very freedom they asked for, exercised. They're pussies if they can't take the heat when it's turned their way. It's pretty sad that you of all people are calling them idiots. Any Trump voter who is against this is a hypocrite and a base coward.

[QUOTE=Paramud;51597947]Which is evidence that it's a good thing, how? I really don't understand your argument. And this part just baffles me even more. Who are you talking about? The people fighting against political discrimination? The people fighting for the freedom to... Discriminate? You're just really god damn confusing.[/QUOTE] I don't believe someone should be incarcerated for refusing to sell a product they produce to someone of the opposing political affiliation. Its a horrible business move and I believe morally wrong but I don't think they should go to jail or lose their livelihood due to how they choose to distribute their property. Is that really crazy?

[QUOTE=archangel125;51597951]While I don't agree with these restaurant owners, I'll play Devil's advocate here. I can't imagine why any Trump supporter would have a problem with this. After all, the man and his VP ran on an election promise of making it legal for businesses to discriminate against gays on religious grounds. How is this any different? This is the very freedom they asked for, exercised. They're pussies if they can't take the heat when it's turned their way. It's pretty sad that you of all people are calling them idiots. Any Trump voter who is against this is a hypocrite and a base coward.[/QUOTE] Supporting allowing businesses to discriminate on religious grounds is not inconsistent with allowing businesses to discriminate on political grounds [I]and then criticizing them for it[/I]. Huge difference between 'this should be illegal' and 'this should be legal but feel free to call them idiots for doing it'. I don't even agree that discrimination should be legal, but some people in this thread are trying way too hard to spot hypocrisy where it doesn't exist. I have never seen any of our resident Trump supporters say that discrimination should be legal [I]and[/I] that criticizing those businesses should be illegal.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51596945]is this a meme yet? stating something that has nothing to do with trump winning and then saying "this is why trump won"[/QUOTE] The ~alt right~ is the result of year and years of normal men and women being told that they're racist, bigoted, transphobic, etc. over small, meaningless things like using listening to rap music as a white girl, or simply existing as a white christian male. Is this what DIRECTLY cause trump to win? No. Is this an example of the toxic, holier-than-thou, so PC it's basically fascist attitudes that made people look towards Trump and other alternative right ideologies? Yes.

[QUOTE=Sheer Visor;51598057]The ~alt right~ is the result of year and years of normal men and women being told that they're racist, bigoted, transphobic, etc. over small, meaningless things like using listening to rap music as a white girl, or simply existing as a white christian male. Is this what DIRECTLY cause trump to win? No. Is this an example of the toxic, holier-than-thou, so PC it's basically fascist attitudes that made people look towards Trump and other alternative right ideologies? Yes.[/QUOTE] You're acting like the left wing is entirely made up of the extremist regressives. It's no different than with the right. The alt right are degenerates, just like the Tumblr SJWs. They're both fascists with thin skins incapable of functioning in society. 90% of everyone else is more middle of the road.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51598196]You're acting like the left wing is entirely made up of the extremist regressives. It's no different than with the right. The alt right are degenerates, just like the Tumblr SJWs. They're both fascists with thin skins incapable of functioning in society. 90% of everyone else is more middle of the road.[/QUOTE] He never made that assumption about the left being all extremist leftists anywhere in his post. All he did is point out a phenomenon that is observable and had a real impact on this election cycle.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51598196]You're acting like the left wing is entirely made up of the extremist regressives. It's no different than with the right. The alt right are degenerates, just like the Tumblr SJWs. They're both fascists with thin skins incapable of functioning in society. 90% of everyone else is more middle of the road.[/QUOTE] The left is getting more extreme. Polarization if the two main parties has gotten worse, we're in an ongoing recession that's seeing working and lower middle class Americans feel left out of any recovery, and things coming out of academia from critical theory is radicalizing the left on race. This election was also very focused on identity politics and saw two alternative left and right candidates challenge their parties

[QUOTE=Tudd;51598207]He never made that assumption about the left being all extremist leftists anywhere in his post. All he did is point out a phenomenon that is observable and had a real impact on this election cycle.[/QUOTE] No more real than the impact that insults against those on the left had.

[QUOTE=Conscript;51598244]The left is getting more extreme. Polarization if the two main parties has gotten worse, we're in an ongoing recession that's seeing working and lower middle class Americans feel left out of any recovery, and things coming out of academia from critical theory is radicalizing the left on race. This election was also very focused on identity politics and saw two alternative left and right candidates challenge their parties[/QUOTE] Can you prove that large portions of the left are getting more extreme? Because I've seen that happening to the right. No, what I think is happening is that the extremists on both sides are getting louder.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51598344]Can you prove that large portions of the left are getting more extreme? Because I've seen that happening to the right. No, what I think is happening is that the extremists on both sides are getting louder.[/QUOTE] Yeah I'm a lot more concerned about heavily armed neo-nazi militias deliberately targeting minorities than I am about college student tumblr snowflakes posting mean things on Twitter.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51598344]Can you prove that large portions of the left are getting more extreme? Because I've seen that happening to the right. No, what I think is happening is that the extremists on both sides are getting louder.[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/23/a-stunning-visualization-of-our-divided-congress/?client=ms-android-verizon[/url] [url]https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/why-the-democrats-have-turned-left-1469226872?client=ms-android-verizon[/url] [url]http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-young-democrats-love-bernie-sanders/[/url] [url]http://bust.com/feminism/18554-donald-trump-and-the-radicalization-of-white-males.html[/url] It's both, but historically the right doesn't radicalize and go full reactionary unless it feels like capitalism/democracy/the elite isn't serving national interests and the left is taking advantage of the unrest Green party vote rose from 400k to 1.2 million since 2012. There has been a rise of SJWs both on campus and in the streets, and mixed in with there being no party of middle class Americans and (especially red state) blue collar workers it has provoked the rise of protectionist, anti-immigrant, anti-hollywood/NYC/california, cultural warrior nationalism and white identity politics. People approve more of socialism than of congress, and young people pick either socialism or libertarianism. I don't think there's really been a louder minority, I think the very real effects of a collapsing middle class revealing America's racialized class issue, how native working people are getting the shaft, our deep inequality despite rising productivity, and how plutocratic and unresponsive our democracy can be is creating anti-establishment feelings which is a cover for a rise in extremism. America is a very stratified society and always had been, the middle class was key to it being sustainable. We're seeing the political effects of very uncomfortable structural changes and market corrections of globalization that are inevitable, and people feel backed into a corner and like they won't live the lives of their parents or grandparents, who existed in a pre-globalized era of post war prosperity, strong industry, and a stronger sense of community and social norms.

[QUOTE=catbarf;51598032]I don't even agree that discrimination should be legal, but some people in this thread are trying way too hard to spot hypocrisy where it doesn't exist. I have never seen any of our resident Trump supporters say that discrimination should be legal [I]and[/I] that criticizing those businesses should be illegal.[/QUOTE] This is stupid because [url=http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/first-amendment-defense-act-would-be-devastating-lgbtq-americans-n698416]one of the first things the Republics will attempt to do will be to reintroduce the First Amendment Defense Act[/url], to allow discrimination against LGBT persons on the basis of personal ideological belief. Our own Vice President, that [I]OUR OWN REPUBLICAN ELECTORATE CHOSE TO REPRESENT THEM[/I], [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-pence-assault-lgbtq-equality_us_58275a17e4b02d21bbc8ff9b]wishes to outlaw gay marriage based on his own personal ideology.[/url] This isn't just one tiny thing out of the way for the platform, discrimination against LGBT people is a central core issue for Republicans because [I]the Republicans of this country elected people who they knew would fight so hard to win for them the right to discriminate against LGBT persons.[/I] These are the people they chose to represent them, these are the people fighting so hard to create a second class of citizens, and you're going to argue that they don't actually want the thing that they voted for, and we're imagining the hypocrisy that doesn't exist even though it demonstrably does? Republicans wanted this. They asked for this because they voted for this and are allowing this to happen. If they did not want this, they would have not voted for this. The second it happens to them, though, they turned into whiny fucking bitches screaming and shouting about how unfair it is.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51598870]This is stupid because [url=http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/first-amendment-defense-act-would-be-devastating-lgbtq-americans-n698416]one of the first things the Republics will attempt to do will be to reintroduce the First Amendment Defense Act[/url], to allow discrimination against LGBT persons on the basis of personal ideological belief. Our own Vice President, that [I]OUR OWN REPUBLICAN ELECTORATE CHOSE TO REPRESENT THEM[/I], [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-pence-assault-lgbtq-equality_us_58275a17e4b02d21bbc8ff9b]wishes to outlaw gay marriage based on his own personal ideology.[/url] This isn't just one tiny thing out of the way for the platform, discrimination against LGBT people is a central core issue for Republicans because [I]the Republicans of this country elected people who they knew would fight so hard to win for them the right to discriminate against LGBT persons.[/I] These are the people they chose to represent them, these are the people fighting so hard to create a second class of citizens, and you're going to argue that they don't actually want the thing that they voted for, and we're imagining the hypocrisy that doesn't exist even though it demonstrably does? Republicans wanted this. They asked for this because they voted for this and are allowing this to happen. If they did not want this, they would have not voted for this. The second it happens to them, though, they turned into whiny fucking bitches screaming and shouting about how unfair it is.[/QUOTE] Well you see. Discrimination should only be legal for the things they find "bad".

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