Tennessee gay couple physically attacked by pastor and deacons for trying to go to church, pastor wa
177 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;32617992]Please elaborate a bit. I fail to understand.[/QUOTE]
[code]bool ExistenceOfMan
bool ExistenceOfReligion
if ( ExistenceOfMan == 1 )
then
ExistenceOfReligion == 1
endif[/code]
This is a bible lesson from an atheist. Seriously, if these "christians" don't understand the bible as well as an atheist there is a serious problem with their "church".
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32617983]
fairly certain men did this, not a god[/QUOTE]
maybe "god told them to do it"
you may never know maan
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32618016]Your whole point is mistaken, actually (and sadly). You can't expect the entire concept of religion to disappear because "lol science can explain it".
First of all, the answers science give won't satisfy everyone. Religion (especially Christianity) is really oriented towards the idea that God created humans, love them to no end and put them to the center of the universe. From that point a lot of fundamentalists Christians just reject the mere idea of us being only a small glimpse of life in a giant universe, with no one above to love us or take care of us. Religion will still exist because people want to keep that warm, comforting feeling that someone is taking care of them.
Second, religion doesn't have to explain the origins of the universe in an opposite way of science in order to be considered a Religion. Knowing agnosticism is taking more and more importance since the seventeenth century, it's more likely that today's religions will disappear to be replaced by Religions accepting science as a fact yet still letting room for a god-like, world creating entity that designed the universe and is watching it over, but without all the incoherences actual religion are making today (there's a lot of science-fiction where humanity, even sometimes a full Millennium after our time, still believe in a God, even though most of them are scientists).
Last but not least, Religion will ALWAYS have answers science just cannot give as well as ways to make people feel better. Life after death ? Religion gives a crystal clear (and comforting) answer. Got a cancer ? The only thing science can tell you is that they will try making you better with medicines and radiations, religion just tells you it's not so bad and you will go in heaven and all that. Losing a relative ? Same thing, science can just tell you "yep, he's dead", religion can tell you you will find him back after life and such.
It can sound stupid and irrational, but a desperate Man is nowhere near rational. In an ideal world, Science will indirectly create a Religion that isn't conflicting with it, but it will still be here.[/QUOTE]
I also understand that religion is needed as kind of a ,soft comforting blanket, for humanity. I just wish we could have religion without this kind of crap going on. All this bigotry, and phobias, and problems the church is having.
I read what your saying, and I understand clearly what you are saying, in fact I feel enriched by what you said.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;32618067]This is a bible lesson from an atheist. Seriously, if these "christians" don't understand the bible as well as an atheist there is a serious problem with their "church".[/QUOTE]
Religion was butchered in the middle age by illiterate greedy priests and is still wearing the deep scars of that time.
This is why I'm not a fan of what people have come to think is "christianly" it's insane. Jesus would be against these peoples actions.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;32618076]I also understand that religion is needed as kind of a ,soft comforting blanket, for humanity. I just wish we could have religion without this kind of crap going on. All this bigotry, and phobias, and problems the church is having.
I read what your saying, and I understand clearly what you are saying, in fact I feel enriched by what you said.[/QUOTE]
You're welcome :smile:
Also, violence in derivation from religion will always exist, but it's not Religion's fault - it's humanity's. A man killing his whole family because a voice called God in his head told him to do it didn't do that because of Religion - it just gave a name to his mental issue. If religion didn't exist, the man would have found something else to name his voice after - a mystical creature, a ghost, nothingness, etc.
Even with a very peaceful religion only claiming there is a life after death, crazy people will still be violent and take it as an excuse, such as killing a whole family because they could reach the Heavens faster or something.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;32618076]I also understand that religion is needed as kind of a ,soft comforting blanket, for humanity. I just wish we could have religion without this kind of crap going on. All this bigotry, and phobias, and problems the church is having.
I read what your saying, and I understand clearly what you are saying, in fact I feel enriched by what you said.[/QUOTE]
I apologize, but I have trouble finding the words to best describe my reply.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32618081]Religion was butchered in the middle age by illiterate greedy priests and is still wearing the deep scars of that time.[/QUOTE]
Yet they still wear those scars with pride.
The stupid assed ones do at least
My mom's pastor friend posted this on Facebook. I doubt he knows what a crusade is
[IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Jihad.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;32618076]I just wish we could have religion without this kind of crap going on. All this bigotry, and phobias, and problems the church is having. [/QUOTE]
We do? Do you think christianity is inherently bigoted or phobic? If so I should let you talk to some gay christians.
The point of the new testament was to say that god and jesus are all loving. That it isn't man's job to enforce god's rules anymore. That people are meant to love each other and tolerate each other regardless of their alleged sins, since according to the bible we are all sinful. Jesus is a character meant to embrace all people, from the sinners to the pious, with outstretched arms and forgiveness.
Once you understand that is the message of christianity, you realize that it isn't the religion that is bigoted and hateful, it's the people who manipulate the sometimes vague and contradictory technicalities of the bible. It's the people who are inherently bigoted and hateful, the people who cherry pick the anti-gay creed and throw away the message of forgiveness and tolerance in order to justify and rationalize their own narrow world view.
What's funny is that Crusades back then were what the war in Iraq is nowadays.
[editline]4th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;32618143]We do? Do you think christianity is inherently bigoted or phobic? If so I should let you talk to some gay christians.
The point of the new testament was to say that god and jesus are all loving. That it isn't man's job to enforce god's rules anymore. That people are meant to love each other and tolerate each other regardless of their alleged sins, since according to the bible we are all sinful. Jesus is a character meant to embrace all people, from the sinners to the pious, with outstretched arms and forgiveness.
Once you understand that is the message of christianity, you realize that it isn't the religion that is bigoted and hateful, it's the people who manipulate the sometimes vague and contradictory technicalities of the bible. It's the people who are inherently bigoted and hateful, the people who cherry pick the anti-gay creed and throw away the message of forgiveness and tolerance in order to justify and rationalize their own narrow world view.[/QUOTE]
He didn't say every religious person even is a bigotry phobic asshole, he said Religion sadly creates a few people like that.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32618081]Religion was butchered in the middle age by illiterate greedy priests and is still wearing the deep scars of that time.[/QUOTE]
Religion cannot be butchered. People choose their own message.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32617732]But yeah, manifest destiny and all that.[/QUOTE]
You're about a century and a half off.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;32617807]This just.....is....wow.
This is why Im not a fan of Christianity.[/QUOTE]Not every Christian is a homophobe. Every human being is flawed, though.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;32618156]Religion cannot be butchered. People choose their own message.[/QUOTE]
Fuck me but I think turning a peaceful message of helping and understanding into a "kill everyone that isn't like us" isn't exactly right.
[editline]4th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;32618159]You're about a century and a half off.[/QUOTE]
That shit's still existing nowadays. It's less and less common (thank god) but it's still here.
[QUOTE=Zoran;32618133]Yet they still wear those scars with pride.
The stupid assed ones do at least
My mom's pastor friend posted this on Facebook. I doubt he knows what a crusade is
[IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Jihad.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Ahahahaha that's a Teutonic Knight from the Eastern Crusades. That had nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with "cleansing" the pagans from Lithuania.
History fail.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32618150]What's funny is that Crusades back then were what the war in Iraq is nowadays.[/quote]
How so?
[quote]He didn't say every religious person even is a bigotry phobic asshole, he said Religion sadly creates a few people like that.[/QUOTE]
No, religion doesn't create people like that. People simply are like that. People use religion as a means to justify their hate, but take away their religion and the hate in their heart still exists.
[editline]4th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32618177]Fuck me but I think turning a peaceful message of helping and understanding into a "kill everyone that isn't like us" isn't exactly right.
[/QUOTE]
They didn't change the message. They created a new message. Back in the middle ages nobody lower than a bishop(I think) was allowed to learn latin to read the bible. In fact the penalty for translating the bible into a local language was punishable by death.
The Church didn't alter the message of the bible, they hid it from the average man and instead taught their own message of cruelty.
Yeah I know the Bible couldn't be translated, I'm studying civilization of that time in college.
If you hide something from someone and claiming something else as the thing you hid in the first place, you are destroying the original thing, especially if the new cruel message stays around for more than fifteen centuries.
Crusades back then are comparable to nowadays' Iraq because it was based on an excuse in order to loot and steal goods from another country.
Religion doesn't create people "like that", they give them support that it didn't want to give anyway. If religion didn't exist, Islam extremists such as Al Qaeda wouldn't have so much power, because they wouldn't have a religion to twist to their convenience.
The Book of Eli gave a rather clear message about the bible (yeah I know it's a fiction but it's still a damn good one) - as good and peaceful the message is, it's still a powerful weapon of crowd control and a tool to make people believe the same things as you, under the name of god.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32618256]Yeah I know the Bible couldn't be translated, I'm studying civilization of that time in college.
If you hide something from someone and claiming something else as the thing you hid in the first place, you are destroying the original thing, especially if the new cruel message stays around for more than fifteen centuries.[/quote]
My point is that the message of christianity was still there. It was the church that suppressed it. I'm saying the church didn't follow the religion, that it wasn't the religion itself that was flawed, but the people running the show. The churches messages weren't even grounded in religion, that was the excuse. The church was after power, they were after the unity of christendom, they were also trying to defend themselves against the muslim and pagan invaders coming from hungary, asia, the middle east, iberia, and africa, through the manipulation of the peasantry.
[quote]Crusades back then are comparable to nowadays' Iraq because it was based on an excuse in order to loot and steal goods from another country.[/quote]
Mmm, as a history buff I would have to disagree. The crusades were caused by many things, so categorizing it in such black and white terms is inaccurate. Yea, during the 4th crusade the Venecians aimed to sack Constantinople and secure their power as a trading city. There was also plenty of sacking done throughout the crusades, but that is more characteristic of warfare itself during this period, where soldiers often weren't paid much, and were instead told that whatever treasures they found in the cities they conquered were their pay.
However, the crusades were first and foremost the defense of christian residents and pilgrims in the holy land. Prior to the crusades the muslim governors weren't exactly hospitable to christians. They in fact persecuted and killed them, the jews in Jerusalem were treated more fair than the christians. They also harassed christian pilgrims. The crusades were launched to fight these "infidels" and reclaim the holy land for christians.
It was also the churches way of asserting power in the region. Although there were many kingdoms in Europe, they tended to be united under the church. The church was de facto ruler of Europe for a long time. They acted exactly as any empire would act and actively tried to expand their rule, and did so by sponsoring incursions into Hungary(to destroy the Magyars), Iberia(to fight the Muslim armies that controlled Iberia), Eastern Europe(mostly aimed at Lithuania), and the Holy Land.
Saying it is all a made up excuse to pillage and rape is hardly accurate.
[quote]Religion doesn't create people "like that", they give them support that it didn't want to give anyway. If religion didn't exist, Islam extremists such as Al Qaeda wouldn't have so much power, because they wouldn't have a religion to twist to their convenience.[/quote]
The USSR was able to unite people under the common goal of Communism/Socialism, which tends to be atheist at heart. Groups like Al Qaeda would use a different goal or idea to gain support.
[quote]The Book of Eli gave a rather clear message about the bible (yeah I know it's a fiction but it's still a damn good one) - as good and peaceful the message is, it's still a powerful weapon of crowd control and a tool to make people believe the same things as you, under the name of god.[/QUOTE]
So is any political rhetoric. We live in a world where people who have agendas tend to control and manipulate people who don't. Religion is a tool. You can't blame a knife if it's used to kill someone, you can't blame an axe if it's used to kill someone. They are simply tools being used for something that isn't their inherent purpose.
I never understand how people could follow God but then do this.
[QUOTE=Badballer;32619683]I never understand how people could follow God but then do this.[/QUOTE]
Basic misunderstanding of a peaceful message after fifteen centuries of teaching the same over-modified cruel and hate-inducing message.
This is why religion has such a shitty reputation, the base message is noble but it has been changed over the years to become the base of a homophobic and xenophobic general hatred, even though the majority of religion followers are totally harmless.
Atheists should also stop being such drama queens about religion, especially as they're taking the few extremists pissing people off as a generality for the entire concept of Religion.
Wait, what? Not allowed to press charges?
[QUOTE=The Baconator;32616798]What a loving father.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure if you asked him he'd say he had no son :(
How could you beat your own son?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32617732]I just love how some Americans criticize homophobia in eastern countries (eg that one thread where people blamed Qatar for having lashed a gay man twenty years ago) yet completely ignore that kind of incident, which happened in their own country.
But yeah, manifest destiny and all that.[/QUOTE]
The Sheriff of the county found the response of his deputy to be lacking and even pointed out that, based on reports, his actions were even out of character for said deputy.
Seems to me like not only is the issue getting attention from the media, but even at the local level, there is going to be a legitimate investigation.
Basically you are full of shit.
Hopefully when our generation takes over things like government and religion homophobia will be a thing of the past, with us being taught to accept each other and such in school.
[QUOTE=GunFox;32622436]The Sheriff of the county found the response of his deputy to be lacking and even pointed out that, based on reports, his actions were even out of character for said deputy.
Seems to me like not only is the issue getting attention from the media, but even at the local level, there is going to be a legitimate investigation.
Basically you are full of shit.[/QUOTE]
I said some Americans
I didn't even accuse the local population of integrally being like that
You should start reading what's written instead of reading what you want to see
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32622552]I said some Americans
I didn't even accuse the local population of integrally being like that
You should start reading what's written instead of reading what you want to see[/QUOTE]
What Americans criticize homophobia overseas but ignore it here?
Do tell, as I am pretty sure the overwhelming majority are homophobic assholes to people here too.
[QUOTE=Medevilae;32616759]Gotta love that Southern Hospitality. :\[/QUOTE]
Most hospitable place in the world, good sir!
Unless you're black, hispanic, asian, gay, liberal, or don't worship the same god.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32618016]
Last but not least, Religion will ALWAYS have answers science just cannot give as well as ways to make people feel better. Life after death ? Religion gives a crystal clear (and comforting) answer.[/QUOTE]
Yep. The thought of burning for all eternity sure is comforting.
[QUOTE=RixxzIV;32622907]Yep. The thought of burning for all eternity sure is comforting.[/QUOTE]
Hell is here to prevent people from doing shit. It was killing, stealing and cheating on your wife/husban back then, and with time illiterate priests turned it into more or less everything possible.
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