Polls may actually underestimate Trump's support, study finds
102 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49376817]Whereas the right just wants to control how you are allowed to live your life. As long as you're not gay, black, poor, a woman, a Muslim, an immigrant, a member of the middle class, or in any other way, shape, or form not a wealthy white Christian male, you're free and clear from their meddling.[/QUOTE]
Can you please stop corresponding [B]everything[/B] you stumble upon with race, gender, and sexual orientation? It has nothing to do with this.
It has damn near everything to do with Trumps rise to power
[QUOTE=paindoc;49382423]It has damn near everything to do with Trumps rise to power[/QUOTE]
Yes, and what does this have to do with my statement? He's talking about all of the right. He isn't only talking about Mr. Trump.
[QUOTE=sgman91;49376765]That's fine if you want to leave it at that, but I do want to be preeminently clear. The left wants more control than the right when it comes to:
- Taxation
- Education (primary and secondary)
- Healthcare
- Hiring practices
- Union/business relationships
- Global trade
- Inheritance law
- Energy production
- Poverty
- Childcare (mandatory preschool)
- Smog standards
- Speech (specifically laws against offensive speech as seen across Europe and fairness doctrine type laws. A US example might be the attempt to ban the "Redskins" trademark that recently failed.)
- Food (attempts to mandate GMO labeling or banning large sodas in New York, for example)
- Retirement (For example, Roth IRA restrictions for high earners and a desire to increase social security taxation)
- Minimum wage
- Required employer provided benefits
- Guns
- etc.
The right wants more control over:
- Drug legality
- Immigration (In the sense that they actually want to enforce the current laws)
- Military spending, although it depends on which side of the right/left you're talking about (Some on the right, like Rand Paul, don't like it, and some on the left, like Jim Web do like it)
[editline]23rd December 2015[/editline]
Let me also say again: I'm NOT even trying to make the argument that less control is always better, just that the left generally wants more control.[/QUOTE]
You forgot to mention that there are also several right wingers who want flag desecration to be illegal, anti sodomy laws, the ability of the US government to spy on it's own citizens without a warrant (NSA), mandatory military service like they have in Israel, intelligent design being taught in classrooms, and many other terrible ideas.
Honestly, the idea that the right is less authoritarian than the left is bullshit. Unless you're talking specifically about the libertarian right.
[QUOTE=Melkor;49386645]You forgot to mention that there are also several right wingers who want flag desecration to be illegal, anti sodomy laws, the ability of the US government to spy on it's own citizens without a warrant (NSA), mandatory military service like they have in Israel, intelligent design being taught in classrooms, and many other terrible ideas.
Honestly, the idea that the right is less authoritarian than the left is bullshit. Unless you're talking specifically about the libertarian right.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I feel like corporations having power over me is worse than the government having power over me in some situations, ones where I don't have a choice like health care, or private prison systems (if I was ever unfortunate enough to get involved in that horrible system). Because at least the government is democratically elected. There are way more protections in place to keep the government in check than to keep corporations in check.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49370300]That's a pretty big damn sign you're supporting the WRONG candidate.[/QUOTE]
Not really. Fifty years ago, supporting a black president wasn't something you'd talk about to your colleagues either. You wouldn't admit it in public, but that doesn't mean anything.
The hivemind of society doesn't decide what's right.
Not saying Trump is a good candidate, but defining what is good and what is bad by popular opinion is not exactly logical.
[QUOTE=Fetret;49370835]I really don't have any love for Trump but after seeing his Jimmy Kimmel interview I fear some people are underestimating his draw. Not saying he's a definite win or anything, but apart from that New Yorker article I keep hearing how the support he has is just hot air but not much evidence to support that.
Not taking your adversary seriously seems like the perfect way to lose. Apart from the sensationalised headlines we get exposed to (because our view is almost as biased as we think of Trump supporters) he makes points that could resonate well with voters and sugar coats his extreme views in easily palatable ways, in short a good-ish politician. His celebrity status and money just add more to his appeal to certain people.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong on every count and that he is really a joke that will amount to nothing, but being too flippant can't be a good thing.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand how so many Canadians are not acknowledging the very real possibility that Trump actually has a horse in this race. I have talked to people about this for hours at a time and people just give up and say I must be a racist shitbag or something [I]even though I preface my entire argument with the fact that I think Trump is a complete knob and would be a shit leader[/I]. But people have their heads so far up their opinions they can't separate fact from fiction.
Trump has serious pull with Americans and should not be ignored.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49372361]Hillary is the worst candidate no matter what. It doesnt even matter what your views are. You clearly know nothing about Hillary and how much of a horrible person she is. She is the worst candidate and most damaging if elected.[/QUOTE]
If there is one thing I hate more than talking to fellow Canucks about Trump, it's talking to them about Hillary. She is nearly equally terrifying, but don't try to talk about that or you're just a misogynist. It's fucking disgusting that we can't openly talk about any of this in fear of being labelled by people who don't know a god damn thing about anything.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49376817]Whereas the right just wants to control how you are allowed to live your life. As long as you're not gay, black, poor, a woman, a Muslim, an immigrant, a member of the middle class, or in any other way, shape, or form not a wealthy white Christian male, you're free and clear from their meddling.[/QUOTE]
You have to admit that the American left is also seriously authoritarian, just in different ways than the right is. Both want to control many parts of society and private life and for people who deeply value personal freedom, you're really just voting for which end of the two-party double-sided dildo you want to get fucked with.
I would honestly hate to be living in the USA right now. Sometimes I feel like America is two totally different countries at the same time and it really needs to split up.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;49405292]I don't understand how so many Canadians are not acknowledging the very real possibility that Trump actually has a horse in this race. I have talked to people about this for hours at a time and people just give up and say I must be a racist shitbag or something [I]even though I preface my entire argument with the fact that I think Trump is a complete knob and would be a shit leader[/I]. But people have their heads so far up their opinions they can't separate fact from fiction.
Trump has serious pull with Americans and should not be ignored.
If there is one thing I hate more than talking to fellow Canucks about Trump, it's talking to them about Hillary. She is nearly equally terrifying, but don't try to talk about that or you're just a misogynist. It's fucking disgusting that we can't openly talk about any of this in fear of being labelled by people who don't know a god damn thing about anything.
You have to admit that the American left is also seriously authoritarian, just in different ways than the right is. Both want to control many parts of society and private life and for people who deeply value personal freedom, you're really just voting for which end of the two-party double-sided dildo you want to get fucked with.
I would honestly hate to be living in the USA right now. Sometimes I feel like America is two totally different countries at the same time and it really needs to split up.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, the news and political talk gives a very distorted view of the USA. Almost all the stuff about race, etc has no impact when you just go about doing stuff IRL instead of gluing yourself to online political "debates", reading 24/7 news, and people whining about how the USA is a shithole. The whiners are idealogues using this talk to push their pie-in-the-sky political fantasies and news sources that feed those people what they want to hear.
Same with political canidates. Trump isn't the bringer of the apocalypse and Hillary isn't an evil cunt; that's just sensationalism from the news so they can get people to watch and read them.
Also, reading SH's comments is a terrible way to learn about American politics. It's filled with leftist Chicken Littles ready to declare all is lost so they can jerk off to how morally superior they are to the rest of the degenerate population.
[QUOTE=sgman91;49376765]That's fine if you want to leave it at that, but I do want to be preeminently clear. The left wants more control than the right when it comes to:
- Taxation[/quote]
Where-as when the right cuts taxes it causes a deficit and then people bitch.
[quote]- Education (primary and secondary)[/quote]
Where-as the right tends to cut education funding without proposing any alternatives to the methods used so that education funding is more effective. (this also applies to the first point)
[quote]- Healthcare[/quote]
Where-as the right wants us back in the system where more people would be left uninsured and people would be paying for other people's medical expenses anyway (why do you think hospital bills are so high? It's because of the people who need emergency care and can't afford it, gotta get that money somehow)
[quote]- Hiring practices[/quote]
Hiring discrimination is good, right?
[quote]- Union/business relationships[/quote]
Unions can be out of control sometimes, but how else will the workers have legal power when it comes to negotiating with their employers? There's a reason they exist you know.
[quote]- Global trade[/quote]
Out-sourcing jobs because it's cheaper, yaaaay.
[quote]- Energy production[/quote]
Surely China is better off than we are in this regard.
Honestly if you see an issue with calling for energy production that doesn't cause earthquakes, oil spills, or coal mine accidents then I just don't know dude.
[quote]- Poverty[/quote]
"Fuck the poor it's entirely their fault they're poor after all".
[quote]- Smog standards[/quote]
Again, surely China is better off than we are.
[quote]- Speech (specifically laws against offensive speech as seen across Europe and fairness doctrine type laws. A US example might be the attempt to ban the "Redskins" trademark that recently failed.)[/quote]
That's democracy in action. It was brought up because people brought it up to their legislators, and it was too many people to ignore at the time. But I suppose being fine with negative racial connotations is a trait of the right I should be used to by now.
Also, "War on Christmas"?
[quote]- Food (attempts to mandate GMO labeling or banning large sodas in New York, for example)[/quote]
If only people were better educated so they wouldn't fall for bullshit anti-science rhetoric...
[quote]- Minimum wage[/quote]
"Just get a better job they're practically growing on trees you know, our economy is based purely in service and trade work so suck it up butter cup and work harder if you hate being poor"
[quote]- Required employer provided benefits[/quote]
"I'm already paying you a starvation wage, what more do you people want from me?!"
[quote]- Guns[/quote]
As opposed to the right who argue that every Tom, Dick, and Harry should be able to get a gun even if their background check isn't done within three days (Oh but they'll go confiscate it afterwards if it turns out he IS a violent felon, but for now we'll just let him have it, it's his right after all! Not like healthcare, that's a privilege you have to work hard for), and some even argue that people on the Terror Watch List (you know, the thing that tries to keep tabs on all those scureh turrists they keep preaching about) should be able to buy a gun because "WELL WHAT IF THEY LABEL [I]ME[/I] A TURRIST TO KEEP ME FROM BUYIN' GUNS?!" (in which case I might humbly suggest to not do shit that would label you a terrorist, ie threatening violence against groups of people)
[quote]- etc.[/quote]
"Etc." isn't a specific point.
[quote]The right wants more control over:
- Drug legality
- Immigration (In the sense that they actually want to enforce the current laws)
- Military spending, although it depends on which side of the right/left you're talking about (Some on the right, like Rand Paul, don't like it, and some on the left, like Jim Web do like it)[/quote]
And surveillance of its own citizens (that's some East Germany-level shit right there), religious rights, funding of science programs, marriage, working to undermine the working class by allowing the upper-class to effectively shit on them with hokey promises of "the wealth will trickle down", y'know, that sort of thing.
"More control" doesn't always mean "bad", often times just letting shit run wild is even worse.
Remember, these are the "War on Christmas" people.
[quote]Let me also say again: I'm NOT even trying to make the argument that less control is always better, just that the left generally wants more control.[/QUOTE]
You sure seem to be trying to put it in a negative context, though.
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