[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;25612881]But it does mention you're not allowed to alter the software or use hacks/cheats. That's not punishing retro-actively, that's just rules you have to follow.[/QUOTE]
I guess you missed the point where fairness comes into play.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;25612881]How about you stop saying 'hurr stop using it as an argument' and tell us WHY it wouldn't hold up in court?[/QUOTE]
I did. As I said electronically signed contracts are rarely held up in court - but that doesn't matter because everyone on Facepunch is a legal expert.
[QUOTE=Chirno;25613363]And by agreeing to the contract(SSA), you are basically agreeing it is fair.
Too bad it's the "Steam Subscriber Agreement" and not the "Garry's Mod VAC policy".
It's why retroactive legislation is normally frowned upon - it's not always fair.
And if by "almost never hold up" you mean "a punishment is almost never pursued" then yes.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
I have no idea what you're trying to allude to? Read up on EULA's legality status in the US if you want to.
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
I'm out.
[QUOTE=markg06;25612471]This article is a waste of bandwith, .[/QUOTE]
Thanks.
I don't think there's a need to qualify activating VAC. Respect the decision, and don't cry about it, seeing as it only should affect hackers. There isn't much of a point in hacking on a sandbox game.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;25612849]Contracts do have to be fair to both parties. It's the basis behind the reasoning that coercion isn't allowed when signing contracts.
Things like the SSA are mostly fair, but there's nowhere in the SSA that talks about punishing retroactively, when it has not been the case previously.
It's why retroactive legislation is normally frowned upon - it's not always fair.
The other thing worth mentioning is that electronically signed agreements, such as EULA or the SSA are almost never held up legally in a court, so stop using that as an argument.
Once again, I don't have any interest in changing the outcome of this - it doesn't affect me.
I guess you missed the part where I have nothing to deal with?[/QUOTE]
When you make an account you agree to the SSA. Not reading it means it's their fault.
I hate having a VAC ban. It was a dumb mistake on my part, and it's really annoying. There is no point in playing CS:S now and I have to switch to a different account just to play TF2.
Trouble in Terrorist Time :smug:
Well, I do find it [I]relatively[/I] unfair that they got banned without ever knowing it was all of a sudden not allowed to hack. I mean, it is GMOD after all.
But then on the other side they did cheat and hack, and there are gamemodes out there that restricts your possibilities so hacking to bypass those possibilities does ruin the whole point and fun of it for others and the only thing it really allows you to, is to be a major dick.
So whilst I can agree it was kinda unfair I'd still say it was fair.
[QUOTE=dgg;25613940]Well, I do find it [I]relatively[/I] unfair that they got banned without ever knowing it was all of a sudden not allowed to hack. I mean, it is GMOD after all.[/QUOTE]
You were never allowed to hack, GMod is not excluded from the SSA.
[QUOTE=Legend286;25613963]You were never allowed to hack, GMod is not excluded from the SSA.[/QUOTE]
It's not an unfair advantage if everyone has the opportunity to have the advantage, or if it doesn't give an advantage.
Trouble in Terrorist Time?
[QUOTE=|FlapJack|;25614086]It's not an unfair advantage if everyone has the opportunity to have the advantage, or if it doesn't give an advantage.[/QUOTE]
Right, it's the fault of the people who don't want to break the Steam ToS, not the hackers. If everyone would just hack then there would be no unfair advantages :downs:
You made an account, you agree'd to the global SSA to not cheat, VAC's been active since forever in gmod, garry got access to the dll's to a popular aimbot sent them to valve they got added to VAC's detection base, people get banned via VAC's delayed ban system.
Well all I can say is, deal with it shouldn't have been hacking in the first place, the SSA states they can do anything with your account if you don't follow it, shame most people will just sit here complaining about it because when they made their accounts they just spammed next, next, next, next, right past the legal statements and didn't bother to read them.
I can't believe there's even a debate going on about if this is unfair or not, are people really this stupid?
[QUOTE=|FlapJack|;25614086]It's not an unfair advantage if everyone has the opportunity to have the advantage, or if it doesn't give an advantage.[/QUOTE]
It's still against the SSA.
[QUOTE=Dashiel;25614276]I can't believe there's even a debate going on about if this is unfair or not, are people really this stupid?[/QUOTE]
Well if you check back in this thread I can sum up a very solid and clear answer for you.
[B]Yes.[/B]
[QUOTE=Legend286;25613963]You were never allowed to hack, GMod is not excluded from the SSA.[/QUOTE]
You could hack without anything happening to you before now, I'd call that being allowed to hack, even if it says in the SSA that you aren't.
Gmod hasn't really been a game you can hack in before gamemodes, like TTT. Because those hacks have never really given you an advantage because it's just a free-roam sandbox game.
But again, I still think it's fair that they got banned.
[QUOTE=raBBish;25612674]Then how about garry himself saying that VAC is enabled and you'll get banned for cheating, posted March 21st [b]2009[/b]?
[url]http://www.garry.tv/?p=841[/url]
:colbert:[/QUOTE]
Thank you.
As far as everyone knew VAC was enabled in GMod all the time. I've never said it wasn't.
You can't expect me to make news posts saying "hey guys, that wallhack/aimbot you were using is gonna be VAC bannable soon, so please uninstall it and find another way to cheat".
You don't cheat out of fear of getting VAC banned, that's how VAC works.
What everyone is saying to me is "I was cheating, but I wouldn't have cheated if I thought I would get VAC banned". Which I think applies to everyone that has ever been VAC banned?
[QUOTE=garry;25614479]Thank you.
As far as everyone knew VAC was enabled in GMod all the time. I've never said it wasn't.
You can't expect me to make news posts saying "hey guys, that wallhack/aimbot you were using is gonna be VAC bannable soon, so please uninstall it and find another way to cheat".
You don't cheat out of fear of getting VAC banned, that's how VAC works.
What everyone is saying to me is "I was cheating, but I wouldn't have cheated if I thought I would get VAC banned". Which I think applies to everyone that has ever been VAC banned?[/QUOTE]
Hello officer, I wouldn't have been speeding if I knew that you were there.
bye bye [SM]-your ban here-
[QUOTE=garry;25614479]Thank you.
As far as everyone knew VAC was enabled in GMod all the time. I've never said it wasn't.
You can't expect me to make news posts saying "hey guys, that wallhack/aimbot you were using is gonna be VAC bannable soon, so please uninstall it and find another way to cheat".
You don't cheat out of fear of getting VAC banned, that's how VAC works.
What everyone is saying to me is "I was cheating, but I wouldn't have cheated if I thought I would get VAC banned". Which I think applies to everyone that has ever been VAC banned?[/QUOTE]
Well actually, you could tell it wasn't before now because of the Steam store page.
[QUOTE=markg06;25612471][B]This article is a waste of bandwith[/B], Garry has his own reasons and has stated them as such end of story we don't need an article on it.[/QUOTE]
I think I'll be the one to make that call thanks, seeing as I'm paying for it.
As for the actual article - I agree with it. If you cheat in a multiplayer game (VAC enabled or not), you should expect something to come around and bite you in the arse later on.
[QUOTE=Legend286;25614668]Well actually, you could tell it wasn't before now because of the Steam store page.[/QUOTE]
It always showed VAC on the Steam Store Page
[QUOTE=DogGunn;25612147]People don't realise contracts normally have to be fair.
You can't all of a sudden just go and state, you will be punished retroactively, when it's never been the case until now.
It's not fair - and citing the SSA would never hold up legally.
Like most GModd players.
It is the best way to play, without cheats/hacks.
Anyway, I couldn't care less about the issue, not banned, don't cheat, never will.[/QUOTE]
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Snoops;25614836][/QUOTE]
Like most GModd players.
It is the best way to play, without cheats/hacks.
Anyway, I couldn't care less about the issue, not banned, don't cheat, never will.
[QUOTE=UberMensch;25614689]I think I'll be the one to make that call thanks, seeing as I'm paying for it.
As for the actual article - I agree with it. If you cheat in a multiplayer game (VAC enabled or not), you should expect something to come around and bite you in the arse later on.[/QUOTE]
Good for you, if this article wasn't created you would've saved some money on bandwith.
[QUOTE=garry;25614710]It always showed VAC on the Steam Store Page[/QUOTE]
It didn't say it was VAC enabled before Toybox, maybe even before then.
I remember it not showing as VAC secure on the Steam purchase page, as that was one of my arguments to it being disabled.
However, garry's always stated it's enabled, so he's not in the wrong.
Do we really need so many articles about the same thing?
[QUOTE=Overv;25615143]Do we really need so many articles about the same thing?[/QUOTE]Yup.
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
There's only been one article besides this, pertaining to just VAC (The ToyBox one does not count) which was the announcement.
When you bought the game you essentially agreed to not cheat, now you're paying for it.
End of thread.
ITT: Butthurt cheaters and devils advocats.
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