Israeli navy 'intercepts' Rachel Corrie Gaza aid ship - Polidicks

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22387566]Well you've brought up something unrelated, since we are talking specifically about Gaza.[/QUOTE] Its called an analogy.

[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22387553]I'm curious to hear what you think is going to happen in the future, BurnEmDown. Surely you don't believe the blockade is a sustainable policy...[/QUOTE] I think Israel doesn't have much chance, the Palestinians are getting better and better at using the media for their needs, showing Israel in a bad light. I think that in a few years, after several controversial incidents regarding Israel, which will probably be legal, just like the latest flotilla incident, will occur and will draw European public opinion to drastic anti-Israeli views. Then maybe the middle eastern nations like Iran and Syria and now most probably Turkey too will attack Israel, other nations might join, and Israel will be wiped out due to no support. I just have to hope it will take long enough for me to get the hell out of here. [editline]11:05AM[/editline] [QUOTE=starpluck;22387582]Its called an analogy.[/QUOTE] An analogy that doesn't relate to the subject at hand.

[QUOTE=Hick2;22387547]America has killed more Civilians in wars since 1948 than Israel ever will. Vietnam, Iraq, Afganistan, Korea (Thousands dead in Seoul).[/QUOTE] We've also rebuilt every country we've ever attacked. In the case of Iraq and Korea, we've made them stronger then they were before we attacked. I don't see Israel making any attempt to rebuild Palestine. [quote=Hick2]Iraq was a lot better of under Saddam. Arguably the Taliban ruled better aswell (Not well, but at least the people were Happier bar the kites)[/quote] Hahah, are you serious? Saddam was gassing entire villages of his own people.

No, what if other countries continued to ignore the situation and it was completely up to Israel. What do you think Israel should do to resolve the situation in Gaza?

[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22387609]No, what if other countries continued to ignore the situation and it was completely up to Israel. What do you think Israel should do to resolve the situation in Gaza?[/QUOTE] Ah, well that depends on the government in power. If the current government was still in power, I think the people in Gaza would unnecessarily suffer somehow but it will bring the conflict to an end (maybe a final attack against the Hamas). But if it will be a left-wing government in power then it's a different story. It could probably take longer, but I'm pretty sure nothing like an attack on Gaza will happen, and there would probably be some kind of an agreement between the Hamas and Israel, which will most likely not be upheld by neither countries. After that I have no idea what would happen, perhaps only a right-wing government can end this? Doesn't sound reasonable, but perhaps the left-wing government would need more time, and by the time they will start to get ahead, they might be switched in the elections.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22387596]I think Israel doesn't have much chance, the Palestinians are getting better and better at using the media for their needs, showing Israel in a bad light. I think that in a few years, after several controversial incidents regarding Israel, which will probably be legal, just like the latest flotilla incident, will occur and will draw European public opinion to drastic anti-Israeli views. Then maybe the middle eastern nations like Iran and Syria and now most probably Turkey too will attack Israel, other nations might join, and Israel will be wiped out due to no support. I just have to hope it will take long enough for me to get the hell out of here. [/QUOTE] Israel deserves all the negative media it gets, blaming it on Palestine is plain retarded. Wanna know a secret? Stop committed atrocities and Israel would have good standings with the world. [quote]An analogy that doesn't relate to the subject at hand.[/QUOTE] Do you even know what a fucking analogy is?

[QUOTE=Gordy H.;22387602]We've also rebuilt every country we've ever attacked. In the case of Iraq and Korea, we've made them stronger then they were before we attacked. I don't see Israel making any attempt to rebuild Palestine. Hahah, are you serious? Saddam was gassing entire villages of his own people.[/QUOTE] Korea was mainly the Koreans dieing. The US came close to nuking a city of 3,000,000 People over it. [B]IRAQ IS BETTER OFF?[/B], Newsflash buddy, the country is worse than Palestine in places. Vietnam is a backward nation because of what you did there.

I know what is an analogy, I didn't mean that the analogy regarding America and the south American country wasn't related, I meant that you analized (is that the correct term?) something unrelated, since we are talking about Gaza and I don't recall Israel didn't "steal" Gaza or kicked the native population out of there.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22387678]I know what is an analogy, I didn't mean that the analogy regarding America and the south American country wasn't related, I meant that you analized (is that the correct term?) something unrelated, since we are talking about Gaza and I don't recall Israel didn't "steal" Gaza or kicked the native population out of there.[/QUOTE] Since 1948 bro.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22387645]Ah, well that depends on the government in power. If the current government was still in power, I think the people in Gaza would unnecessarily suffer somehow but it will bring the conflict to an end (maybe a final attack against the Hamas). But if it will be a left-wing government in power then it's a different story. It could probably take longer, but I'm pretty sure nothing like an attack on Gaza will happen, and there would probably be some kind of an agreement between the Hamas and Israel, which will most likely not be upheld by neither countries. After that I have no idea what would happen, perhaps only a right-wing government can end this? Doesn't sound reasonable, but perhaps the left-wing government would need more time, and by the time they will start to get ahead, they might be switched in the elections.[/QUOTE] By "final attack" do you mean actually seizing control of Gaza? Because I don't think it's much of a stretch for Hamas to go from the ruling body of a small territory to an insurgency.

[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22387701]By "final attack" do you mean actually seizing control of Gaza? Because I don't think it's much of a stretch for Hamas to go from the ruling body of a small territory to an insurgency.[/QUOTE] No, I meant attacking Gaza and not stopping until the Hamas will be neutralized, then something will have to be done a similar organization won't rise to power, obviously, but Israel won't try and annex Gaza, as that would be probably the stupidest thing it could do. [editline]11:16AM[/editline] [QUOTE=starpluck;22387697]Since 1948 bro.[/QUOTE] You do realize that Israel had no control whatsoever in Gaza until the six day war, right?

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22387716]No, I meant attacking Gaza and not stopping until the Hamas will be neutralized, then something will have to be done a similar organization won't rise to power, obviously, but Israel won't try and annex Gaza, as that would be probably the stupidest thing it could do. [editline]11:16AM[/editline] You do realize that Israel had no control whatsoever in Gaza until the six day war, right?[/QUOTE] What about Palestine?

Hey guys remind me who displaced 711,000 Palestinians and continues to deprive them of life, land, and liberty? I could've sworn it was Israel but apparently they treat Palestinians really well (see: Frozen meats). Now if only the Palestinians would stop building houses in front of Israeli bulldozers, stop getting in the way of IDF bullets, and learn to live with nothing there'd be no problemas. Gawd the Palestinians are inconsiderate.

Do you really think it's possible to simply "neutralize" a group like Hamas? Current members are easily concealable and there is a constant stream of new recruits as living conditions decline.

[QUOTE=DrMonumbo;22387751]Hey guys remind me who displaced 711,000 Palestinians and continues to deprive them of life, land, and liberty? I could've sworn it was Israel but apparently they treat Palestinians really well (see: Frozen meats). Now if only the Palestinians would stop building houses in front of Israeli bulldozers, stop getting in the way of IDF bullets, and learn to live with nothing there'd be no problemas. Gawd the Palestinians are inconsiderate.[/QUOTE] You are forgetting that most of these refugees have done so out of their own free will. The Arabic nations told them that the war will be over in a few days and until then they can come to their lands, but then they lost the war. These Palestinians who have escaped cannot prove they were indeed residents of the lands, so basically anyone could have claim so and then Israel would have been ruled by a majority of Arabs. Since it is a Jewish country and an Arab majority would mean an end to it's Jewish identity, they were not allowed to enter the lands which Israel has legally acquired. [editline]11:24AM[/editline] [QUOTE=starpluck;22387750]What about Palestine?[/QUOTE] We are speaking about Gaza, I thought it was you who said "stop trying to change the subject."

[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22387764]Do you really think it's possible to simply "neutralize" a group like Hamas? Current members are easily concealable and there is a constant stream of new recruits as living conditions decline.[/QUOTE] Not necessarily, the Palestinians themselves would need to remove them from power. If Israel tries to remove Hamas from power by military force, Hamas would use that as another reason to gain popularity among the Palestinians.

[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22387764]Do you really think it's possible to simply "neutralize" a group like Hamas? Current members are easily concealable and there is a constant stream of new recruits as living conditions decline.[/QUOTE] I think a short military occupation could achieve that, but after wards the military will mostly pull out, to not intimidate the Palestinians and make them thing Israel wants to annex Gaza. I know it would be hard, fighting against terror and insurgency isn't an easy thing, as evident by the US's struggle in Iraq and Afghanistan, but I believe in this case Gaza is small enough to allow a regular army to defeat the insurgent group. It would be bloody though.

Well what would you do to prevent a relapse of the current situation?

[QUOTE=Amez;22387799]Not necessarily, the Palestinians themselves would need to remove them from power. If Israel tries to remove Hamas from power by military force, Hamas would use that as another reason to gain popularity among the Palestinians.[/QUOTE] Well we are discussing about how I think the conflict would end, and I think a military confrontation will result in Israel's ultimate victory, if no other nations were to intervene.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22387807]I think a short military occupation could achieve that, but after wards the military will mostly pull out, to not intimidate the Palestinians and make them thing Israel wants to annex Gaza. I know it would be hard, fighting against terror and insurgency isn't an easy thing, as evident by the US's struggle in Iraq and Afghanistan, but I believe in this case Gaza is small enough to allow a regular army to defeat the insurgent group. It would be bloody though.[/QUOTE] An organized military can beat an insurgent group, as long as the focus remains on the homefront. The fighting in the jungles (concrete though they may be) is important, yes, but the battle to win the war is the one for public opinion.

[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22387820]Well what would you do to prevent a relapse of the current situation?[/QUOTE] Instill a trusted group of people at the government, or ask the UN for help at that matter.

Unfortunately there's not much that can be done to solve the problem without creating new ones. It's either one side wins or the other, and both don't want to lose. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22387822]Well we are discussing about how I think the conflict would end, and I think a military confrontation will result in Israel's ultimate victory, if no other nations were to intervene.[/QUOTE] That's the thing though, there's bound to be a nation that would intervene.

What about the lack of any infrastructure or economic opportunities in Gaza? Do you think it's Israel's responsibility to restore these?

[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22387853]What about the lack of any infrastructure or economic opportunities in Gaza? Do you think it's Israel's responsibility to restore these?[/QUOTE] I honestly don't know what might happen after this point, that's too far into the future for me to say what I think might happen, given I don't even believe in the first place that no nations will intervene.

[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22387853]What about the lack of any infrastructure or economic opportunities in Gaza? Do you think it's Israel's responsibility to restore these?[/QUOTE] Indeed it is, however in order for them to even be allowed to enter Gaza to help is a whole other problem.

I just think you should think about the future implications of the blockade you've been supporting so strongly. It's not good for anyone in the long term. Hamas may be struggling to find material for weapons, but the blockade is also turning more residents of Gaza into combatants by the day. Without an economy, there's nothing for these people to do besides either focus on survival or retaliate against Israel. Since Israel's the only country with access to Gaza, it's entirely your responsibility to stop the source of the conflict. The longer you keep this up, the harder it will be to stop the attacks.

I'm not that supportive of it, I would rather let most humanitarian aid that is currently blocked through. I'm just defending its legality. BTW Egypt also has access to Gaza.

Well, Egypt really wants nothing to do with them. There's also the matter that Israel dismantled the infrastructure with the blockade and bombings, so ethically it's most certainly their responsibility. After all, we rebuilt Japan after uh... that thing we did.

[url]http://media.voanews.com/images/480*300/AP_Israel_commandos_480_4jun10_se.jpg[/url]

[QUOTE=Wakka;22387984][url]http://media.voanews.com/images/480*300/AP_Israel_commandos_480_4jun10_se.jpg[/url][/QUOTE] What's going on in this picture?