[QUOTE=Drsalvador;34419983]I admit his crimes are monstrous, But the death penalty is a fucking joke. The idea that the US condones that type of violence and action toward him because because of his actions is ludicrous, If you're against murder then why do you [I]murder criminals?[/I] An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. It's fucking mentally defunct that, in retribution for murder, the murderer is killed. So what do you do to the murderer of the murderer, eh?
And before you spam me with dumbs going "YOU CONDONE RAPE YOU EVIL PERSON". no i don't. I am against all violence, Whether state-funded or fuelled by one man, It is wrong and an injustice towards mankind as a whole.
Who gives a man the right to decide who lives and who dies?[/QUOTE]
"injustice to mankind as a whole", well that may be but if you've noticed, we aren't the most peaceful of creatures in the least, lots of people agree with killing this ass, it's not just one person that decides. Morals are different for everyone, not everyone has the same morals as you. Not trying to say you are wrong, but this man deserves death for what he did.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;34424023]lol
Your evidence shows the reason why making the method of execution cheaper won't solve anything.
[url]http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty[/url]
[editline]28th January 2012[/editline]
Attempt to rehabilitate them. If they are sane and refuse then keep them locked up.[/QUOTE]
Isn't it infinitely more cruel to lock them up for the rest of their lives? That alone [B][I]WILL[/I][/B] drive a human being to insanity.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;34424087]Isn't it infinitely more cruel to lock them up for the rest of their lives? That alone [B][I]WILL[/I][/B] drive a human being to insanity.[/QUOTE]
generally people who refuse help and kill people without real guilt are insane
therefore your claim is invalid
[QUOTE=SystemGS;34424129]generally people who refuse help and kill people without real guilt are insane
therefore your claim is invalid[/QUOTE]
No, no its not. You all just like to generalize things here.
Why can't people appeals cases of life imprisonment just as much as they can appeal death sentences?
Point is, why does a person who tortures and kill a man still deserve to be treated equal to a man who didn't. The concept of "Human Rights" as being there under every circumstance is ludicrous. If you take away someone else's Human Right of, well, living, why should you be entitled to the same right you so blatantly care nothing for?
I mean, guys, what do you think the best way to deal with the issue is? You have four main ways to punish the guy for torture, rape, and murder:
1. Life in prison.
2. Attempt to rehabilitate.
3. Death Penalty.
4. Let him go free.
Now, 1 seems to be more inhumane than death in my opinion. Life in prison is hell, living day in and day out locked up is horrible. The chances of rehabilitating someone who is capable of murder, rape, torture, and arson, has no chance of emotional stability because they are either already too far lost, or the traumatic experience will follow them the rest of their life. I am not in favor of just killing someone, but you have to admit, practically, in comparison to his other options, it's the best choice for both him and the dead victims.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;34424176]No, no its not. You all just like to generalize things here.[/QUOTE]
and you made the generalization and assumption that life imprisonment will drive someone insane
funny how this works reciprocally
[editline]27th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Loriborn;34424247]Point is, why does a person who tortures and kill a man still deserve to be treated equal to a man who didn't. The concept of "Human Rights" as being there under every circumstance is ludicrous. If you take away someone else's Human Right of, well, living, why should you be entitled to the same right you so blatantly care nothing for?
I mean, guys, what do you think the best way to deal with the issue is? You have four main ways to punish the guy for torture, rape, and murder:
1. Life in prison.
2. Attempt to rehabilitate.
3. Death Penalty.
4. Let him go free.
Now, 1 seems to be more inhumane that death in my opinion. Life in prison is hell, living day in and day out locked up is horrible. The chances of rehabilitating someone who is capable of murder, rape, torture, and arson, has no chance of emotional stability because they are either already too far lost, or the traumatic experience will follow them the rest of their life. I am not in favor of just killing someone, but you have to admit, practically, in comparison to his other options, it's the best choice for both him and the dead victims.[/QUOTE]
killing him would be an easy release for him but it also brings us down to the same level
if you're going to strip him of his human rights by killing him, he might as well not have a trial at all considering he's inhuman
the logic of the death penalty is fucking paltry when you put any real thought into it
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;34423645]
How about someone kills someone that you love and they get out 20 years later? You obviously don't know what it is like or else you would have a completely different opinion.[/QUOTE]
You want to know something funny?
Well actually it's not very funny at all. I'm gonna level with you, I really don't like talking about this.
I have 2 younger brothers. A long time ago I used to go to a baby sitter's house because I was raised by my single mother who worked all the time. The baby sitter had been rather abusive at some times, becoming unreasonably angry over hardly anything but I didn't think too much about it.
One day she got incredibly pissed at my baby brother because he kept crying so she ended up shaking him until he stopped breathing. Long story short he ended up in the hospital, I was terrified that he was going to die, and the baby sitter got into a ton of legal shit and lost her child care license.
She never went to prison for this because she was considered mentally unwell and went for counseling. At the time I didn't understand the concept of this and I always hated it. I hated the fact that she could just get away with almost killing my brother out of anger.
As I got older I ended up in therapy for clinical depression. This was one of the things I talked about, as that event was my first experience with the mortality of my loved ones. I eventually learned to acknowledge the fact that some people have problems that can leave them without full control of themselves and that those people needed help, the same way I was told I wasn't in control of my own depression.
in today's facepunch news,
giving out an opinion in an internet forum is just as bad as committing the act of murder itself, therefore you need help
[QUOTE=SystemGS;34424262]and you made the generalization and assumption that life imprisonment will drive someone insane
funny how this works reciprocally
[editline]27th January 2012[/editline]
killing him would be an easy release for him but it also brings us down to the same level
if you're going to strip him of his human rights by killing him, he might as well not have a trial at all considering he's inhuman
the logic of the death penalty is fucking paltry when you put any real thought into it[/QUOTE]
Why is getting down to another's level considered bad? Why do we feel the need to be "superior" to another just because of some moral standing based in ludicrous ideas that humans will ever be fully good.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;34424299]You want to know something funny?
Well actually it's not very funny at all. I'm gonna level with you, I really don't like talking about this.
I have 2 younger brothers. A long time ago I used to go to a baby sitter's house because I was raised by my single mother who worked all the time. The baby sitter had been rather abusive at some times, becoming unreasonably angry over hardly anything but I didn't think too much about it.
One day she got incredibly pissed at my baby brother because he kept crying so she ended up shaking him until he stopped breathing. Long story short he ended up in the hospital, I was terrified that he was going to die, and the baby sitter got into a ton of legal shit and lost her child care license.
She never went to prison for this because she was considered mentally unwell and went for counseling. At the time I didn't understand the concept of this and I always hated it. I hated the fact that she could just get away with almost killing my brother out of anger.
As I got older I ended up in therapy for clinical depression. This was one of the things I talked about, as that event was my first experience with the mortality of my loved ones. I eventually learned to acknowledge the fact that some people have problems that can leave them without full control of themselves and that those people needed help, the same way I was told I wasn't in control of my own depression.[/QUOTE]
Cool story
I've seen nothing to prove that this man was not in full control of himself.
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;34424340]Cool story
I've seen nothing to prove that this man was not in full control of himself.[/QUOTE]
And I've seen nothing to prove that he was, because it seems like nobody even tried to find out exactly why he did what he did.
They are simply going to condemn a man to death without even attempting to see if he is redeemable.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;34424329]Why is getting down to another's level considered bad? Why do we feel the need to be "superior" to another just because of some moral standing based in ludicrous ideas that humans will ever be fully good.[/QUOTE]
because you're assuming the right to take another person's life in the name of justice
that's just presumptuous, and it becomes even more presumptuous as you stoop down to the level of the murderer
[QUOTE=SystemGS;34424399]because you're assuming the right to take another person's life in the name of justice
that's just presumptuous, and it becomes even more presumptuous as you stoop down to the level of the murderer[/QUOTE]
So, in your opinion, what is the most humane and just way for both the victim, the victim's husband, and the killer to [b]all[/b] be happy in the end?
[QUOTE=Loriborn;34424420]So, in your opinion, what is the most humane and just way for both the victim, the victim's husband, and the killer to [b]all[/b] be happy in the end?[/QUOTE]
Someone's desire for a vengeful death should have no weight in law.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;34424420]So, in your opinion, what is the most humane and just way for both the victim, the victim's husband, and the killer to [b]all[/b] be happy in the end?[/QUOTE]
life imprisonment
the victim is dead and justice is done for them through the imprisonment, just as justice is done to the victim's husband in seeing that the murderer of his wife and daughters is put away for life without any chance of parole. it works out for the murderer because he gets fed daily and continues to live his life despite his choices, albeit in prison, which is due to his choice
we have no power to assume the right to kill in the name of justice
[QUOTE=Hidole555;34419276]An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Killing people to show that killing people is wrong is a hypocritical argument.[/QUOTE]
And killing people then allowing him to live his days out while they don't is a much better argument?
I'd rather be a hypocrite then allow that piece of shit to share the same ground as me.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;34424453]Someone's desire for a vengeful death should have no weight in law.[/QUOTE]
You never answered the question, no one has. No one has told me what should happen to the killer, in this fantasy utopia you live in where human morality is totally based in fact, and has no foothold in emotions at all.
[editline]27th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=SystemGS;34424475]life imprisonment
the victim is dead and justice is done for them through the imprisonment, just as justice is done to the victim's husband in seeing that the murderer of his wife and daughters is put away for life without any chance of parole. it works out for the murderer because he gets fed daily and continues to live his life despite his choices, albeit in prison, which is due to his choice
we have no power to assume the right to kill in the name of justice[/QUOTE]
So a life not even worth living instead of taking away his life? You do realize that not only is life in prison more inhumane than death, but that taxpayers have to pay to keep this guy alive? What makes the concept of living more precious to you than a life that you enjoy? To you, the whole idea of being alive is some amazing thing that should never be taken away, even if it means a cruel life behind bars.
[QUOTE=Hidole555;34418616]Hooray. Now we can waste thousands of dollars on a bloated appeals process instead of just a life sentence without parole.[/QUOTE]
It's not like it matters anymore we are already in trillions of dollars in debt, this won't make a dent.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;34424488]You never answered the question, no one has. No one has told me what should happen to the killer, in this fantasy utopia you live in where human morality is totally based in fact, and has no foothold in emotions at all.[/QUOTE]
I don't live in a fantasy utopia. I live in a reality where human morality is a perception that can be effected by emotion, which is exactly why the death penalty shouldn't exist. To protect people from such an absolute punishment carried out by the anger of others.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;34424488]So a life not even worth living instead of taking away his life? You do realize that not only is life in prison more inhumane than death, but that taxpayers have to pay to keep this guy alive? What makes the concept of living more precious to you than a life that you enjoy? To you, the whole idea of being alive is some amazing thing that should never be taken away, even if it means a cruel life behind bars.[/QUOTE]
how is life in prison more inhumane than death, you make blanketed statements but you never fucking back them up with any real support
also taxpayers pay more for the repeated appeals trials of a death row inmate plus the procedure than they do for a prisoner incarcerated for life without chance of parole
imprisoning someone for life isn't inhumane so long as the person made choices that got them there, which obviously, this man did. we have no right to kill him, because that makes us murderers in the same sense as him
[editline]27th January 2012[/editline]
also there are cases where we kill the wrong man
there are a lot of cases where that happens
"gee oh boy i guess we fucked up guys sorry that we killed an innocent man in the name of justice"
if you give someone life imprisonment and they were wrongly accused, at least you can release them
[QUOTE=SystemGS;34424559]how is life in prison more inhumane than death, you make blanketed statements but you never fucking back them up with any real support
also taxpayers pay more for the repeated appeals trials of a death row inmate plus the procedure than they do for a prisoner incarcerated for life without chance of parole
imprisoning someone for life isn't inhumane so long as the person made choices that got them there, which obviously, this man did. we have no right to kill him, because that makes us murderers in the same sense as him[/QUOTE]
Which do you prefer SystemGS:
Waking up everyday in a cold bed, steel bars, treated like scum by those around you, your fellow inmates, and guards, because of what you did? Constantly at fear of being killed over drugs, turf wars, or even because that guy in the yard doesn't like you? Eating disgusting food, and getting your privacy taken away, unable to do anything? Having no friends or family to visit you, because your acts were so horrible, that everyone wants you gone? Living with the guilt and regret of killing and raping other humans, and then realizing you're alone for the rest of your life? Unable to be productive to anyone in the world, other than to the testament of how you are still alive, rotting in a cell, unhappy for 60+ years?
Or die and let all the suffering end quickly and painlessly.
Your choice.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;34424604]Which do you prefer SystemGS:
Waking up everyday in a cold bed, steel bars, treated like scum by those around you, your fellow inmates, and guards, because of what you did? Constantly at fear of being killed over drugs, turf wars, or even because that guy in the yard doesn't like you? Eating disgusting food, and getting your privacy taken away, unable to do anything? Having no friends or family to visit you, because your acts were so horrible, that everyone wants you gone. Living with the guilt and regret of killing and raping other humans, and then realizing you're alone for the rest of your life?
Or die and let all the suffering end quickly and painlessly.
Your choice.[/QUOTE]
How about option c, which involves a prison system that is actually based on rehabilitation instead of isolation and punishment.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;34424627]How about option c, which involves a prison system that is actually based on rehabilitation instead of isolation and punishment.[/QUOTE]
How about you stop living in a fantasy world where we have a system like that implemented at the time of this trial. This is real life, you have to choose between A and B, because C doesn't exist yet.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;34424645]How about you stop living in a fantasy world where we have a system like that implemented at the time of this trial. This is real life, you have to choose between A and B, because C doesn't exist yet.[/QUOTE]
Then your question is completely pointless because there is no choice. The man was condemned to death.
Kind of defeats the purpose of a hypothetical question when you throw hypothesis out the window.
In the current system that he have implemented, which would you yourself prefer to have yourself subjected to. Stop avoiding the question over the topicality of my argument when you know perfectly well what I meant.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;34424708]In the current system that he have implemented, which would you yourself prefer to have yourself subjected to. Stop avoiding the question over the topicality of my argument when you know perfectly well what I meant.[/QUOTE]
I would prefer to be kept alive then in the hopes that the system sees improvement in my lifetime.
Also because I would rather not see my right to life trampled on by a system that has sworn to protect it.
[QUOTE=Last or First;34418775]Depression and child abuse don't force you to rape people and kill them with fire.
And, to deal with your "he's crazy but not crazy" sarcastic remark, even though it was a non sequitur in the first place: There are different types of "crazy", you know. Emphasis on the quotation marks. Depression isn't the same as sociopathy isn't the same as paranoia isn't the same as PTSD [del]isn't the same as liking any of the current GOP candidates[/del].[/QUOTE]
Then what causes people to rape and kill? Explain it Mr. Self-Proclaimed-Psychologist.
I challenge anyone here to explain what causes someone to rape and kill and then tell me that it is entirely the fault of the accused.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;34424604]Which do you prefer SystemGS:
Waking up everyday in a cold bed, steel bars, treated like scum by those around you, your fellow inmates, and guards, because of what you did? Constantly at fear of being killed over drugs, turf wars, or even because that guy in the yard doesn't like you? Eating disgusting food, and getting your privacy taken away, unable to do anything? Having no friends or family to visit you, because your acts were so horrible, that everyone wants you gone? Living with the guilt and regret of killing and raping other humans, and then realizing you're alone for the rest of your life? Unable to be productive to anyone in the world, other than to the testament of how you are still alive, rotting in a cell, unhappy for 60+ years?
Or die and let all the suffering end quickly and painlessly.
Your choice.[/QUOTE]
so you're going to give me an ultimatum where i can choose to let a man live with his choices or assume the role of the murderer and kill him
okay
obviously it's not that black and white, not all people in prison are constantly in fear of every little thing, and you're still treated decently
also, it's the point of prison to make us live with our choices. if i killed a man and was sentenced to life in prison, that would be the consequence of my choice
obviously the most humane way is to kill them lmao
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;34424729]I would prefer to be kept alive then in the hopes that the system sees improvement in my lifetime.
Also because I would rather not see my right to life trampled on by a system that has sworn to protect it.[/QUOTE]
Good luck. You have this delusional concept that humans are all good people. That the people in "The System" will ever just say "Woops, we've been wrong, let's release them all after he murdered and raped!". Your right to life was thrown away when you threw away another's. Just as you lose your right to drive when you speed/get a DUI. Same concept.
[editline]27th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=SystemGS;34424748]so you're going to give me an ultimatum where i can choose to let a man live with his choices or assume the role of the murderer and kill him
okay
obviously it's not that black and white, not all people in prison are constantly in fear of every little thing, and you're still treated decently
also, it's the point of prison to make us live with our choices. if i killed a man and was sentenced to life in prison, that would be the consequence of my choice
obviously the most humane way is to kill them lmao[/QUOTE]
You obviously have no grasp on what prison is like, nor do you comprehend the emotional trauma that follows [b] raping a woman, torturing a little girl, and burning them alive whilst leaving their husband to suffer[/b]. You'd probably want to off yourself anyway. Worst part is, it's almost impossible to do it in prison.
[editline]27th January 2012[/editline]
You never did tell me why "human life is so sacred".
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