Transgender wrestler Mack Beggs identifies as a male. He just won the Texas state girls title. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;51888719]Then create divisions like in fighting. You don't generally put a featherweight up against the biggest heavyweight. Likewise I'd bet you can use whatever metrics possible to group people without resorting to gender. Some sports don't really need this though (maybe like baseball or soccer?).[/QUOTE]Seriously this. I don't see why gender matters in fighting sports. If you're both same weight, what biological advantages do males have? [editline]28th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;51888680] Taking testosterone while performing in a sport is considered doping because of this. Male sports perform at a much higher level of intensity than female sports, and if you compare the top male football and basketball players to the top female players the difference is huge. Just like how females are under performing in the armies PT, because the requirements have been set to a standard that is difficult for even physically fit males to achieve. Even the Olympics are gender segregated.[/QUOTE] Unlike in basketball, in fighting sports fighters are divided into weight groups. There's no reason why gender segregation should apply in this case.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;51888719]Then create divisions like in fighting. You don't generally put a featherweight up against the biggest heavyweight. Likewise I'd bet you can use whatever metrics possible to group people without resorting to gender. Some sports don't really need this though (maybe like baseball or soccer?).[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=rndgenerator;51888741]Seriously this. I don't see why gender matters in fighting sports. If you're both same weight, what biological advantages do males have?[/QUOTE] Because there are less females than males in sports, and the males already outclass some of the best females in their leagues. Male football (US) players would absolutely decimate female football players. Like I said, even in the army females are struggling to meet the same requirements as males, and the ones that do are well above average in terms of female strength and conditioning. And even then they still don't perform as well as males. In less physical sports it wouldn't matter. I don't see why diving or golfing has to have gender separation. But for something like Basketball where the average player is 6'7 the females are also going to get stomped. I've never seen a female above six foot in my life.

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51888741]Seriously this. I don't see why gender matters in fighting sports. If you're both same weight, what biological advantages do males have? [editline]28th February 2017[/editline] Unlike in basketball, in fighting sports fighters are divided into weight groups. There's no reason why gender segregation should apply in this case.[/QUOTE] Fighting can get away with divisions because there's one person on each side. Having different divisions of large team sports with weigh-ins or hormone level checks or whatever would be a nightmare. You would never be able to field a full team.

We are talking about fighting sports here, not football or basketball or team based sports

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51888782]We are talking about fighting sports here, not football or basketball or team based sports[/QUOTE] Still controlling for weight alone won't equalize gender differences. Even at the same mass, men and women's muscles work differently.

[QUOTE=laserpanda;51888811]Still controlling for weight alone won't equalize gender differences. Even at the same mass, men and women's muscles work differently.[/QUOTE] Source? And if they work differently, how come using testosterone can equalize that difference?

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;51881112]I'm not super well informed on transitioning, so I wonder if you have a metric that you're judging this by. Since biological men naturally produce a good bit testosterone, how much was this guy taking as part of his transition and how much of a measurable advantage over biological men does this transition period give? Obviously, my point being that if a [I]very [/I]clear advantage can't be shown then transitioning has no bearing.[/QUOTE] With next to no research on the specific subject and the very clear regulations about AMAB and AFAB people being banned from using synthetic testosterone in sports, I still think anyone undergoing transition shouldn't be allowed to compete if their transition involves using (normally) banned substances.

[url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_human_physiology[/url] Men's muscles generally contain more fast twitch fibers, and I don't know if testosterone supplementation alters that, however the main difference is being able to maintain muscle mass without gaining body fat. It's very difficult for women to be muscular and have low body fat simultaneously, which obviously puts them at a disadvantage when weight classes are used. "Males remain stronger than females, when adjusting for differences in total body mass, due to the higher male muscle-mass to body-mass ratio."

[QUOTE=laserpanda;51888913][url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_human_physiology[/url] Men's muscles generally contain more fast twitch fibers, and I don't know if testosterone supplementation alters that, however the main difference is being able to maintain muscle mass without gaining body fat. It's very difficult for women to be muscular and have low body fat simultaneously, which obviously puts them at a disadvantage when weight classes are used. "Males remain stronger than females, when adjusting for differences in total body mass, due to the higher male muscle-mass to body-mass ratio."[/QUOTE] Seems like these properties are attributed to testosterone, in which case why was he allowed to participate at all?

[QUOTE=Dr.C;51880283]Well shit, if you and more people were willing to accept him as a male, he wouldn't have BTFO the girls and would have competed where he should. this quote is confusing as fuck because she recognizes he should be competing with the rest of the boys, but still insists on treating him as a girl.[/QUOTE] It's only a pronoun. She could fully well still treat him as a male.

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;51889054]It's only a pronoun. She could fully well still treat him as a male.[/QUOTE] How is continually referring to someone with a female pronoun "treating them like a male"? Pronouns mean a lot to trans people. If someone called me she repeatedly despite knowing my actual identity, I wouldn't feel like I was being treated as my correct gender, I'd feel invalidated and humiliated.

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51888281]Can we just drop the whole sports gender divide?[/QUOTE] wouldn't this just result in women being utterly fucking destroyed in most strength-related sports?

Dissolving the divide out of altruism would be unfair, as much as I hate to admit it. Putting some money and time into researching where strengths are matched in typical weight ranges between men and women and then building the classes based on that would, though.

[QUOTE=PILLS HERE!;51880309]this isn't helping his situation at all if he is a man he is a man - it's people like this person that are contributing to why he's in this situation in the first place[/QUOTE] These people agree with you about a man being a man, they just have different ideas of what constitutes a man or a woman.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;51886921]There's no problem with that though as testosterone in the normal male range would not cause any advantage over other contestants so long as they were also in the normal range.[/QUOTE] The issue you start to run into here is testing. Testing costs money, and most school-level programs don't have the money to shell out for testing every single athlete. Hormone testing isn't like basic drug testing where you can have someone pee in a cup with litmus paper or some shit in it that'll change color if they pop for something. Hormone tests have to be sent in to labs for actual testing. Even then they are only really going to get the T/E ratio, in a very simplified nutshell, your ratio of testosterone to estrogen. You run into doping concerns because when do you test the athlete? Immediately before they participate? Immediately after? What if they don't need to piss during either of those times, do you delay the event in one way or another? Tons of hormone supplementation can be taken orally, what's stopping someone from pissing for the test, popping another pill and having more testosterone in their system for the next few hours while they compete? Testing prior and after the competition for each athlete would get exorbitantly expensive. This is why the rules have been set as a zero-tolerance type deal. Most professional sports are ruling out testosterone therapy as waiverable to compete on because you run into way too much gray area as far as what is considered "normal" ranges. A common dosage for TRT (and considering someone going through transition WANTS the adrogenic side effects, the doses are going to be on the higher end) is 250mg every two weeks. Some people get 250mg every week. The former equates to the testosterone levels of a 25 year old male with pretty damn high testosterone, the latter is higher than any natural male can produce. If that kind of thing is allowed, you run into people telling one transgendered individual, "Oh, you're okay to compete because your androgen receptors are very responsive and a lower dose of testosterone works for you in your transition," and then another, "Oh no, your dose is too high so you don't get to compete sorry," which is going to be another shitshow all in itself. I'm all for hormone use, I hate how male hormones have been demonized but you can buy female hormones over the counter easy peasy, but I think you're asking for nothing but trouble the second you try to establish rules where you allow some people on TRT to compete but not others.

[QUOTE=MaverickIB;51891282]The issue you start to run into here is testing. Testing costs money, and most school-level programs don't have the money to shell out for testing every single athlete. Hormone testing isn't like basic drug testing where you can have someone pee in a cup with litmus paper or some shit in it that'll change color if they pop for something. Hormone tests have to be sent in to labs for actual testing. Even then they are only really going to get the T/E ratio, in a very simplified nutshell, your ratio of testosterone to estrogen.[/QUOTE] I'm well familiar with how hormone tests work. [quote] You run into doping concerns because when do you test the athlete? Immediately before they participate? Immediately after? What if they don't need to piss during either of those times, do you delay the event in one way or another? Tons of hormone supplementation can be taken orally, what's stopping someone from pissing for the test, popping another pill and having more testosterone in their system for the next few hours while they compete? Testing prior and after the competition for each athlete would get exorbitantly expensive. [/quote] If you suspect an individual is doping then test the individual. This isn't the olympics. No need to test everyone. Furthermore popping testosterone a few hours before an event wont actually do anything. Sex hormones are not exactly fast acting. [quote] This is why the rules have been set as a zero-tolerance type deal. Most professional sports are ruling out testosterone therapy as waiverable to compete on because you run into way too much gray area as far as what is considered "normal" ranges.[/quote] normal male range is between 280 and 1,100 ng/dL. There really isn't a gray area. [quote] A common dosage for TRT (and considering someone going through transition WANTS the adrogenic side effects, the doses are going to be on the higher end) is 250mg every two weeks. Some people get 250mg every week. The former equates to the testosterone levels of a 25 year old male with pretty damn high testosterone, the latter is higher than any natural male can produce. [/quote] Thats because, especially at the beginning of HRT, you're put on a dosage of sex hormone that makes your levels a lot higher then a normal adult of that sex. This is because the hormones have to essentially force you into a second puberty and start the changes to your body required to transition. Your levels usually level out after a while. [quote] If that kind of thing is allowed, you run into people telling one transgendered individual, "Oh, you're okay to compete because your androgen receptors are very responsive and a lower dose of testosterone works for you in your transition," and then another, "Oh no, your dose is too high so you don't get to compete sorry," which is going to be another shitshow all in itself. [/quote] FtM athletes early in transition aren't really going to have anything resembling an advantage against biological males. The testosterone takes a while to start changing you. Same goes for Estrogen. [quote] I'm all for hormone use, I hate how male hormones have been demonized but you can buy female hormones over the counter easy peasy,[/quote] Female hormone usually makes you a lot weaker then you were previously. I know this from experience. Testosterone does enhance performance after prolonged usage. Furthermore I don't really know where you're getting this "you can get female hormone over the counter" shlock from. Birth control really won't cut it and my Estrogen has to be prescribed to me by my endocrinologist. [quote] but I think you're asking for nothing but trouble the second you try to establish rules where you allow some people on TRT to compete but not others.[/quote] If your levels are in the regular male range then you should be allowed to compete. You won't need to test every male athlete because not every male athlete is going to be trans. Furthermore since transitioning FtM and MtF's have to get regular bloodwork done to check their levels anyways your entire point is completely moot.

[QUOTE=The golden;51891480]Just going to further stress the point of how long it takes. A full hormone transition takes anywhere between 2 to 5 [B][U]years.[/U][/B] And as said before it's done with doctor-prescribed pharmaceuticals and under medical supervision the entire time via regular bloodwork and physical examinations if needed. Just really wanting to dismiss this notion that testosterone is something you can shoot up before a match to gain an advantage. It doesn't work like that. Neither does estrogen.[/QUOTE] Just to elaborate on this point even further, I've been on HRT for close to two years now and my body is still changing

There are plenty of fast acting forms of hormones. Athletes in combat sports and olympic lifting use them frequently because you can piss at "normal" levels not long before it's time to compete and get yourself up to supraphysical levels in a short amount of time. There's a gray area in the realm of TRT because it isn't constant, even if your dosing is meant to have mean levels between that range, with most esters you're going to see a peak at around 3 days in. Your levels will most likely be above the normal range at that point and decay below it in just a few more days. Therefore, you run into the normal accepted range being bumped up to accommodate for different dosing schedules, and people taking advantage of that. Like I said, many athletic organizations are ruling out TRT as acceptable because it opens too many doors for abuse. The UFC and many others tried it for a few years, and despite desperately attempting to regulate it, they continuously failed. It isn't schlock if you can follow it with, "birth control really won't cut it." For transitioning? Probably not. But it's still a female hormone that can be acquired without too much difficulty. The male equivalent is incredibly difficult to get a prescription for, I've know many males with testosterone levels well below even the lower ranges of what's acceptable and still be denied because it wasn't negatively affecting their lives enough. I'm having a hard time finding where the line is drawn here. Trans individuals are supposed to be treated like just another member of the sex they've transitioned to. Yet they're going to be subject to constant testing/reporting of their hormone levels when other athletes won't be? They're going to be allowed to take hormones in a form other athletes aren't allowed to, even if those athletes have a condition which requires it, like low-T? A male athlete suffering from low T has to choose between competing or being on TRT, why is the exception made for transgender individuals?

[QUOTE=MaverickIB;51891519]There are plenty of fast acting forms of hormones. Athletes in combat sports and olympic lifting use them frequently because you can piss at "normal" levels not long before it's time to compete and get yourself up to supraphysical levels in a short amount of time. There's a gray area in the realm of TRT because it isn't constant, even if your dosing is meant to have mean levels between that range, with most esters you're going to see a peak at around 3 days in. Your levels will most likely be above the normal range at that point and decay below it in just a few more days. Therefore, you run into the normal accepted range being bumped up to accommodate for different dosing schedules, and people taking advantage of that.[/quote] And how supraphysical are we talking about? Everything I know about hormones points to them being slow acting. [quote] Like I said, many athletic organizations are ruling out TRT as acceptable because it opens too many doors for abuse. The UFC and many others tried it for a few years, and despite desperately attempting to regulate it, they continuously failed.[/quote] Just make it so only people who are trans and thus need TRT can have TRT. Its not rocket science. [quote] It isn't schlock if you can follow it with, "birth control really won't cut it." For transitioning? Probably not. But it's still a female hormone that can be acquired without too much difficulty. The male equivalent is incredibly difficult to get a prescription for, I've know many males with testosterone levels well below even the lower ranges of what's acceptable and still be denied because it wasn't negatively affecting their lives enough.[/quote] Again I must point out that female hormone decreases muscle mass. The reason it isn't regulated is because its the exact opposite of a performance enhancer. [quote] I'm having a hard time finding where the line is drawn here. Trans individuals are supposed to be treated like just another member of the sex they've transitioned to. Yet they're going to be subject to constant testing/reporting of their hormone levels when other athletes won't be? They're going to be allowed to take hormones in a form other athletes aren't allowed to, even if those athletes have a condition which requires it, like low-T? A male athlete suffering from low T has to choose between competing or being on TRT, why is the exception made for transgender individuals?[/quote] My point is that trans people are regularly tested for hormones regardless of their involvement in athletics. Furthermore they're taking hormones due to their bodies inability to produce adequate amounts on its own. Finally the difference between a male athlete and a trans individual is that the TRT for the trans individual is medically necessary, the athlete has no medical need for it.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;51891601]Just make it so only people who are trans and thus need TRT can have TRT. Its not rocket science. My point is that trans people are regularly tested for hormones regardless of their involvement in athletics. Furthermore they're taking hormones due to their bodies inability to produce adequate amounts on its own. Finally the difference between a male athlete and a trans individual is that the TRT for the trans individual is medically necessary, the athlete has no medical need for it.[/QUOTE] You seem to misunderstand what sports are about, if someone naturally produces less testosterone then why should they be allowed to boost to normal levels whilst a "normal" competitor isn't allowed to boost when faced with someone that has naturally higher testosterone levels? The argument that it is medically necessary has no place here (the argument can be used for steroids being used for healing injuries), if a trans athlete doesn't have the natural ability to compete then that is the end of that athletic career as is the case for a host of people who had careers ended by medical issues. There's also this hypothetical I saw on another forum: [QUOTE]Yes dosage does matter but even TRT level doses can be a huge advantage over someone that is natural especially in sports that have weight classes. I'll use this an example Person A is on 125mg of test a week which results in test levels of 800ng/dl. Person B has natural test levels of 800ng/dl. These people compete in MMA at 185lbs. Both guys gain a little fat when they are not training for a fight so when they start off their training camps they both weigh around 215 at the same body fat percentage. They both are in a daily 500 calorie deficit and have grueling training sessions every day. Two thing both proven to lower testosterone levels, but since Person A is taking exogenous test his levels remain at 800ng/dl all the way through the training camp meaning he was able to lose fat while maintaining his lean body mass. Person B that is natural had test levels of 800ng/dl at the start of the training camp had test levels 450ng/dl by the time the fight comes around because of the combined caloric deficit and the grueling training sessions. He was still able to drop fat but because his test levels dropped he wasn't able to maintain his lean body mass. Person A and B both started with the same weight, lean body mass, and body fat going into the training camp but because Person A's test levels remained consistent, he enters the fight with less fat and more lean body mass than Person B. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kyle902;51891601]And how supraphysical are we talking about? Everything I know about hormones points to them being slow acting. [/QUOTE] The ester attached to a hormone is what dictates how quickly it releases. Test enanthate and cypionate are the common HRT forms of testosterone, they peak at a few days in and stick around in the body for around 2 weeks. Test prop peaks the following day and is mostly gone in a few more days. The thing about TRT is that it means you don't risk natural hormone suppression. A natural athlete can't risk shooting up test base (testosterone with no ester, peaks in literally just about an hour and is gone in just another hour or two following) because it would immediately crash his endocrine system. He'd have to PCT immediately the next day and spend the next few weeks trying to recover his natural testosterone levels. A TRT athlete does not have to worry about this, it opens the door so to speak for PED use since the number one drawback (natural system suppression) is eliminated. A TRT athlete can be on TRT within normal levels, blast some test base (or trenbolone base, what Chinese olympic lifters use) an hour before the event and fucking dominate, and be back to normal just another hour or two later and no blood test would know the wiser. It's damn near impossible to detect that, olympic testing is extremely thorough and those guys still get away with it easy peasy. [quote][b]Furthermore they're taking hormones due to their bodies inability to produce adequate amounts on its own.[/b] Finally the difference between a male athlete and a trans individual is that the TRT for the trans individual is medically necessary, the athlete has no medical need for it.[/quote] This is the bias I am talking about. So a FtM athlete needs TRT because his body produces 1/4 the average male's testosterone naturally. But a male athlete who's body produces 1/4 the normal amount doesn't get to compete on TRT because... it isn't medically necessary? What kind of mental gymnastics gotta take place for that to make any sense? Low testosterone is just as much a medical condition as gender dysphoria, why do people with the latter get to compete on TRT but the former do not?

[QUOTE=Kyle902;51891386] If your levels are in the regular male range then you should be allowed to compete. You won't need to test every male athlete because not every male athlete is going to be trans. Furthermore since transitioning FtM and MtF's have to get regular bloodwork done to check their levels anyways your entire point is completely moot.[/QUOTE] The only issue I can see is what to do when someone's testosterone levels are naturally abmormal for their sex. IIRC there was some controversy with an Olympic athlete recently about that.

[QUOTE=laserpanda;51893780]The only issue I can see is what to do when someone's testosterone levels are naturally abmormal for their sex. IIRC there was some controversy with an Olympic athlete recently about that.[/QUOTE] There are some famous athletes that have used growth hormones, Lionel Messi for example had to be treated with growth hormones when he was young, but iirc, I'm not really following football mind you, this often gets brought up against him. Bottom line is, either sports have to evolve to allow people to take hormones within reason, or none at all, because if you start making exemptions, people will also start to abuse the system, as they have done so in the past, and doping in sports runs deep, just recently there was the whole russian doping scandal.

[QUOTE=MaverickIB;51893554] This is the bias I am talking about. So a FtM athlete needs TRT because his body produces 1/4 the average male's testosterone naturally. But a male athlete who's body produces 1/4 the normal amount doesn't get to compete on TRT because... it isn't medically necessary? What kind of mental gymnastics gotta take place for that to make any sense? Low testosterone is just as much a medical condition as gender dysphoria, why do people with the latter get to compete on TRT but the former do not?[/QUOTE] If you're a biological male that produces only a quarter of the average testosterone levels, you have bigger problems than being able to perform in sports events. So yes, that dude will get TRT.

[QUOTE=Crimor;51894041]If you're a biological male that produces only a quarter of the average testosterone levels, you have bigger problems than being able to perform in sports events. So yes, that dude will get TRT.[/QUOTE] But he won't be able to compete in sports when he does, whereas someone with the same hormone levels as him hops on TRT and gets to compete anyways because it's part of a sex transition. My argument here isn't about who gets TRT and who doesn't, anyone who needs it should get it. However, the line needs to be drawn either at "TRT is allowed," or, "TRT is not allowed." Sitting there and saying, "TRT is only allowed for FtM transgender individuals," throws males with clinically low testosterone under the bus. You can't sit there and draw an arbitrary line that has two people undergoing the same form of treatment but only one of them gets to compete because their condition is more legitimate or whatever.

[QUOTE=MaverickIB;51896120]But he won't be able to compete in sports when he does, whereas someone with the same hormone levels as him hops on TRT and gets to compete anyways because it's part of a sex transition. My argument here isn't about who gets TRT and who doesn't, anyone who needs it should get it. However, the line needs to be drawn either at "TRT is allowed," or, "TRT is not allowed." Sitting there and saying, "TRT is only allowed for FtM transgender individuals," throws males with clinically low testosterone under the bus. You can't sit there and draw an arbitrary line that has two people undergoing the same form of treatment but only one of them gets to compete because their condition is more legitimate or whatever.[/QUOTE] 99% sure that if you have a legit medical reason to use a drug, you cannot be denied entry due to it.

[QUOTE=MaverickIB;51891282]The issue you start to run into here is testing. Testing costs money, and most school-level programs don't have the money to shell out for testing every single athlete. Hormone testing isn't like basic drug testing where you can have someone pee in a cup with litmus paper or some shit in it that'll change color if they pop for something. Hormone tests have to be sent in to labs for actual testing. Even then they are only really going to get the T/E ratio, in a very simplified nutshell, your ratio of testosterone to estrogen.[/quote] Hi. FtM pharm student here. You're completely wrong. There actually are urine hormone tests, but they tend to be a bit inaccurate and take longer to get results. Blood testing is far more accurate, much faster (2 days), and it [i]does not[/i] give a ratio. It gives the exact number at the time the blood was drawn. My last blood test had my T levels at a little over 700 and an estradiol level of 82, I think. [quote]You run into doping concerns because when do you test the athlete? Immediately before they participate? Immediately after? What if they don't need to piss during either of those times, do you delay the event in one way or another? Tons of hormone supplementation can be taken orally, what's stopping someone from pissing for the test, popping another pill and having more testosterone in their system for the next few hours while they compete? Testing prior and after the competition for each athlete would get exorbitantly expensive.[/quote] Wrong again. Tesosterone isn't available in an oral form due to extensive first pass metabolism (aka the liver goes LOLNO and filters it out before it even hits the blood system). In order to get past first pass metabolism, the person has to take extremely high levels of T which can screw up the liver. Consequently, the most common form is injections because all the other forms (patches, sublingual, buccual, subdermal pellets) are expensive as [b]fuck[/b] and injections do a pretty good job of avoiding that first pass metabolism. Additionally, because T is a steroid, it takes a little bit of time to kick in (Read: days) and cause any effects. [quote]A common dosage for TRT (and considering someone going through transition WANTS the adrogenic side effects, the doses are going to be on the higher end) is 250mg every two weeks. Some people get 250mg every week. The former equates to the testosterone levels of a 25 year old male with pretty damn high testosterone, the latter is higher than any natural male can produce.[/quote] Wrong again. Tends to be about 100mg every 7-10 days. Good lord, I was on 100mg every 3 weeks and I was still having changes. Testosterone is incredibly potent and not a lot is needed to produce changes.

[QUOTE=SadisticGecko;51896663]Hi. FtM pharm student here. You're completely wrong. There actually are urine hormone tests, but they tend to be a bit inaccurate and take longer to get results. Blood testing is far more accurate, much faster (2 days), and it [I]does not[/I] give a ratio. It gives the exact number at the time the blood was drawn. My last blood test had my T levels at a little over 700 and an estradiol level of 82, I think. Wrong again. Tesosterone isn't available in an oral form due to extensive first pass metabolism (aka the liver goes LOLNO and filters it out before it even hits the blood system). In order to get past first pass metabolism, the person has to take extremely high levels of T which can screw up the liver. Consequently, the most common form is injections because all the other forms (patches, sublingual, buccual, subdermal pellets) are expensive as [B]fuck[/B] and injections do a pretty good job of avoiding that first pass metabolism. Additionally, because T is a steroid, it takes a little bit of time to kick in (Read: days) and cause any effects. Wrong again. Tends to be about 100mg every 7-10 days. Good lord, I was on 100mg every 3 weeks and I was still having changes. Testosterone is incredibly potent and not a lot is needed to produce changes.[/QUOTE] Athletic steroid testing starts with a basic T/E ratio test, then they roll into an actual targeted (and much more expensive) test following an abnormal result with the first test. Athletes don't get blood tested, at least not normally. Testosterone may not be available in oral form pharmaceutically but it's ridiculously easy to get in oral form from other avenues. Dianabol, halotestin, turinabol, winstrol, methyltren, cheque drops, all oral forms of hormones, many of which hit very quickly. Halo, methyltren, and cheque drops (drops are rare these days) all enter the bloodstream quickly and have effect within hours. I've seen trenbolone base come in a transdermal form that hit like a truck. T does NOT take a little bit of time to kick in. The reason why it takes time is because of the ester delaying its release. I know a "friend" *hint hint wink wink* who has used test base and tren base (no esters) as pre-workouts and they hit like fucking trucks just 15-30 minutes following an injection, immediate increase in aggression, strength, and explosiveness. My entire argument here is that TRT has been proven time and time again in many athletic organizations to facilitate athletes dipping into the pool of other not-so-legal PEDs. It's easy as fuck to use PEDs rampantly when you're on TRT because the numero uno drawback of endrocrine system suppression is completely nullified. [editline]1st March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Crimor;51896377]99% sure that if you have a legit medical reason to use a drug, you cannot be denied entry due to it.[/QUOTE] That 1% kicked in here. Hormone therapy, as I have stated many times, has been disallowed by many athletic organizations. You can have a completely legit reason to be on TRT but you still won't be allowed to compete in most organizations athletics while on it. Unless you're transgender, apparently, and I'm just against letting some individuals compete on a treatment while others on the same treatment are turned away.

[QUOTE=ZuXer;51881066]Honestly, if you're taking hormones you shouldn't compete in a physical competition, period. Kind of a catch-22, but he should've withdrawn untill his transition is completed, just out of fair play. In this situation, kinda feels like nobody (could've) won. The girls didn't win, because they got an unfair matchup. The boy didn't win, because he had to compete against girls. If he competed against boys, then those matchups would've been considered unfair. Really, in this position, you have to ask yourself, what is more important, yourself, or the sport.[/QUOTE] I think i'm late, but hormones never end. Since the body doesn't naturally produce the hormone to the amounts needed for either gender, hormones are taken to simulate what would naturally happen. This of course is an anti doping nightmare, but its also extremely unfair to permaban transgender people because of the potential for it. Because organizations like these are so concerned about gender being an unchanging attribute or one to be universally accomodated for, they don't put their efforts to resolving problems like the one I outlined above and make everything worse as a result. [quote]That 1% kicked in here. Hormone therapy, as I have stated many times, has been disallowed by many athletic organizations. You can have a completely legit reason to be on TRT but you still won't be allowed to compete in most organizations athletics while on it. Unless you're transgender, apparently, and I'm just against letting some individuals compete on a treatment while others on the same treatment are turned away.[/quote] A perfect example of that mindset stupidly skewing regulation. You either determine the metrics to figure out what doses are considered doping and what aren't, or you bar any hormone using participants, regardless of reason.

[QUOTE=MaverickIB;51896969] T does NOT take a little bit of time to kick in. The reason why it takes time is because of the ester delaying its release. I know a "friend" *hint hint wink wink* who has used test base and tren base (no esters) as pre-workouts and they hit like fucking trucks just 15-30 minutes following an injection, immediate increase in aggression, strength, and explosiveness. [/QUOTE] The only part of this that remotely makes sense is an increase in aggression. No sex hormone acts fast enough to increase strength noticeably in 30 minutes. If sex hormones worked that fast to change the body then puberty would last a few months and HRT would be a year long process at most. Can you cite any evidence for testosterone increasing strength and... "explosiveness" in such a short amount of time? I'm fairly certain you're seeing the placebo effect and confirmation bias in action. As a matter of fact heres an article about the short term effects of high dosages of testosterone on older men [url]https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/88/8/3605/2845283/The-Short-Term-Effects-of-High-Dose-Testosterone?redirectedFrom=fulltext[/url] [quote]Short-term administration of high-dose testosterone shortens sleep and worsens sleep apnea in older men but did not alter physical, mental, or metabolic function.[/quote] heres an article on the effects of TRT in trans individuals. [url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3188848/[/url] Note that it takes three weeks for it to have any effects and this is with relatively high dosage injections.