• Sensationalist as fuck unofficial Ron Paul commercial.
    116 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Mudbone;34381862]Ron Paul fails to understand the fragile state of world diplomatic relations. We tried removing all of our troops once. Something called World War 2 happened.[/QUOTE] Um... That was dumb. Like, super dumb. The USA isn't some kind of beloved white knight that strikes fear into the hearts of its enemies. World War 2 didn't start because of a lack of US presence. In fact, they wanted absolutely nothing to do with it until the Japanese hit pearl harbour. World war II would've been won without the USA - The USA didn't save the day as you might think. Study international history.
[QUOTE=Sector 7;34381892]Why, by pointing out that invading a country, and occupying it and maintaining martial law for the better part of a decade and against the wishes of the world at large is a terrible thing? Is that "craftier" then promising people you will end the war, then increasing the size and scope of the war after getting elected based on those promises?[/QUOTE] First part of the video anyone will agree with, it's mainly the second part where he attacks Obama that I find ridiculous. Obama ended the war, regardless. I just think Ron Paul generalizing about the presence of American troops on foreign soil is stupid.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;34381507] #2: Obama eventually did withdraw from Iraq. The video makes it seem like we haven't .[/QUOTE] I thought we have 4 or so permanent bases there.
[QUOTE=Mudbone;34381862]Ron Paul fails to understand the fragile state of world diplomatic relations. We tried removing all of our troops once. Something called World War 2 happened.[/QUOTE] btw im very unhappy to hear you're old enough to vote
[QUOTE=yawmwen;34381937] Obama just followed Bush's timelines. Also, McCain wasn't Bush's successor, Obama was, so it is really irrelevant.[/QUOTE] Obama trusted Petraeus to run the war, that's why. McCain was the successor endorsed by Bush IIRC? My point is that if everything went the way Bush wanted to, we might not even be out of Iraq by now.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34381942]Where are all these Americans everyone claims to know? I've never heard anyone, ever, imply Iraqi innocent women and children were terrorists. [/QUOTE] I have.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34381942]Where are all these Americans everyone claims to know? I've never heard anyone, ever, imply Iraqi innocent women and children were terrorists. What you said makes the claim that only males above the age of 18 participate in conflicts in Arabia, which is if course ridiculous, but that's beside the point. The video explicitly points out, by the way, that the majority of Americans want out of the war, which also goes against what you're saying. To summarize, 'the fuck?[/QUOTE] You have no idea how many Americans I've met in Canada and spoken to about the war. The majority of them at that time (2004-2006ish) supported the war in Iraq, and a disturbing percentage of those people spouted bullshit about WMDs and Saddam Hussain being a threat to the USA, and a whole load of other stupid drivel, including the 'Iraqis hate our freedom' bullshit. If you've never encountered the kind, you must live a charmed life.
[QUOTE=Chicken_Chaser;34381957]I thought we have 4 or so permanent bases there.[/QUOTE] nope... we don't.
Hear the implication, that is.
I mean "We should Nuke Iraq." How many times have you heard that in the last ten years?
[QUOTE=Mudbone;34381862]Ron Paul fails to understand the fragile state of world diplomatic relations. We tried removing all of our troops once. Something called World War 2 happened.[/QUOTE] While we can all agree the latter part of your statement is false: you are right Paul refuses to comprehend diplomatic relations, two countries did try his idea of foreign policy: China and Japan, both of which were invaded as a result. [editline]24th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;34382007]I mean "We should Nuke Iraq." How many times have you heard that in the last ten years?[/QUOTE] Once, just now.
[QUOTE=archangel125;34381948]Um... That was dumb. Like, super dumb. The USA isn't some kind of beloved white knight that strikes fear into the hearts of its enemies. World War 2 didn't start because of a lack of US presence. In fact, they wanted absolutely nothing to do with it until the Japanese hit pearl harbour. World war II would've been won without the USA - The USA didn't save the day as you might think. Study international history.[/QUOTE] God do I hate when people bring up World War II and imply the US had no hand in the victory. "Without American production, the United Nations would have never won the war." - Joseph Stalin. People seem to think the entire war was fought on the Soviet front. A massive, massive part of the war was, and in arguably the Soviets paid a ghastly toll to repel the Nazi invasion. To say that the Lend Lease act, operations in North Africa, Iran, Iraq, Italy, and Western Europe had no roll (or even a negligible roll) in what happened re writes history. Also, there was that whole Pacific thing which was sort of important. It would have taken the Soviets years to construct a navy that could fight the Japanese, and we have historical precedent to know how well they fare on the ocean. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War[/url] yeah no though your international history is spot on
[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;34381693]They should have chosen Australia instead. :v:[/QUOTE] But Australia is on the edge of launching an offensive! [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJsjCJ4m1Gk&t=12m57s[/media]
[QUOTE=archangel125;34382007]I mean "We should Nuke Iraq." How many times have you heard that in the last ten years?[/QUOTE] When people say that, they are dumb hicks, and they are joking.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;34382013]While we can all agree the latter part of your statement is false: you are right Paul refuses to comprehend diplomatic relations, two countries did try his idea of foreign policy: China and Japan, both of which were invaded as a result. [editline]24th January 2012[/editline] Once, just now.[/QUOTE] I'm sure you're one of a very, very few.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;34381984] My point is that if everything went the way Bush wanted to, we might not even be out of Iraq by now.[/QUOTE] If everything goes the way Obama wants to, we will never be out of Afghanistan.
[QUOTE=Mudbone;34381862]Ron Paul fails to understand the fragile state of world diplomatic relations. We tried removing all of our troops once. Something called World War 2 happened.[/QUOTE] can't tell if this is troll or not. also, trots, ron paul ain't doing crafty shit, you said it yourself, he was saying he wants to promote peace and trade, and that pulling out of countries isn't isolationism. you also do realize this video is mainly directed to GOP voters, right? The same people that want back in Iraq? The whole point of the video was to make them realize if we were in the other shoe, we wouldn't be happy and be doing the same thing as those 'terrible, horrible, inhumane terrorists' are. He used Chinese and Russian because saying Japan taking us over sound silly while Chinese / Russia are big superpowers that can go toe-to-toe with us.
IMAGINE IF THEY WERE STATION IN... *pause for effect* [B]texas[/B]
[QUOTE=archangel125;34381910]Iraq was such a colossal fuck-up that all parties involved wanted out as quickly as politically viable. Obama seized the first opening to start withdrawing troops. Since there's still some international support for Afghanistan, the US is keeping a military presence there. Because if they pull out now, the Taliban will step in almost instantly to fill the gap. They'll depose and kill Karzai, and then begin an ideological 'cleansing' in the name of Allah. And because other NATO countries are still invested in the war, it'll look very, very bad for the USA to back out of the war it started before everyone else has as well. It's not as simple as "Hey, let's just leave and come home." The US's reputation and foreign diplomatic relations are at stake.[/QUOTE] Obama largely increased the number of troops in Afghanistan though
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34382024]God do I hate when people bring up World War II and imply the US had no hand in the victory. "Without American production, the United Nations would have never won the war." - Joseph Stalin. People seem to think the entire war was fought on the Soviet front. A massive, massive part of the war was, and in arguably the Soviets paid a ghastly toll to repel the Nazi invasion. To say that the Lend Lease act, operations in North Africa, Iran, Iraq, Italy, and Western Europe had no roll (or even a negligible roll) in what happened re writes history. Also, there was that whole Pacific thing which was sort of important. It would have taken the Soviets years to construct a navy that could fight the Japanese, and we have historical precedent to know how well they fare on the ocean. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War[/url] yeah no though your international history is spot on[/QUOTE] Mudbone's implication that the war would never have happened if US troops were around is idiotic. The US did help win the war, but they were by no means essential.
i swear ive seen the same video but with out a guy with a whispy voice
[QUOTE=archangel125;34382051]Your implication that the war would never have happened if US troops were around is idiotic. The US did help win the war, but they were by no means essential.[/QUOTE] I didn't imply that, and you're right whoever said that is pretty stupid Still though. They were absolutely essential. Even if we assume that the Soviets could have defeated the Nazis without any American assistance, the threat of Imperial Japan was massive.
[QUOTE=archangel125;34382051]Your implication that the war would never have happened if US troops were around is idiotic. The US did help win the war, but they were by no means essential.[/QUOTE] Yea they were. Without the Lend Lease acts and US intervention, the Soviets would have either been crushed, or the war would have been delayed years(with the entirety of Europe a Soviet satellite, possibly).
[QUOTE=yawmwen;34382036]If everything goes the way Obama wants to, we will never be out of Afghanistan.[/QUOTE] what? wrong again, he set a 2014 deadline. [QUOTE=EliteGuy;34382048]Obama largely increased the number of troops in Afghanistan though[/QUOTE] on the advice of McChrystal you're making the fallacy that all these decisions are being made by him personally.
where the hell is morgan freemans voice when you need it
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;34382088]what? wrong again, he set a 2014 deadline.[/quote] Wait, so when Obama does something, he gets credit. However, when Bush does something, he doesn't?
it's funny how evil the voice sounds when it says RUSSIAN. but anyway i think this is a pretty good video, even though i think ron paul is a crazy alzheimers type fella i do agree with his 'golden rule' approach to foreign policy! and i also agree that US conduct of the war in afghanistan & iraq was/is atrocious.
[QUOTE=archangel125;34382051]Your implication that the war would never have happened if US troops were around is idiotic. The US did help win the war, but they were by no means essential.[/QUOTE] First of all: He never implied anything of the sort. Second of all: The US was absolutely essential in the total victory of WW2. US dollars paid for an absolutely colossal amount of war material. The US played a heavy roll in the victories in Africa, cutting off Germany's vital fuel supplies. US B17s flying sorties over mainland Europe crippled Germany's industry. The US invasion of Italy diverted some of the most elite German forces that would have otherwise been on the Western front. The US was responsible for the proliferation of the Sherman tank, used heavily by the British, the bazooka, which replaced the useless Russian anti-tank rifles, and the defeat of the Japanese empire, which otherwise would have fully dominated the pacific theatre of war. The war would've been lost without any of the three major Allied powers.
I thought that the commercial was not only powerful but mostly right. The point wasn't a red scare, it was to get people to think from the point of view of Afghanistan's or Iraq's population, and how they feel, and that we should not be involved in foreign wars such as these.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34382073]I didn't imply that, and you're right whoever said that is pretty stupid Still though. They were absolutely essential. Even if we assume that the Soviets could have defeated the Nazis without any American assistance, the threat of Imperial Japan was massive.[/QUOTE] My mistake - I meant Mudbone's implication.
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