[QUOTE=flamehead5;35745994]Its a page long argument that is going nowhere.[/QUOTE]
rofl you must be new here :)
[QUOTE=Lankist;35750879]yes you are clearly the expert here i know because you've rated all of my posts dumb[/QUOTE]
who cares if he rated you dumb?
yeah, totally not out for revenge, these people
i'm going to be honest here, i haven't been very impressed with the jewish community lately, and this doesn't help very much
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;35747890]Japanese civilians thought the US was completely evil and prepared to murder all of them once the Japanese mainland was taken. The US would not only have to fight the Japanese military but also all of their people.
Also, do you fucking know how hard it is to make a coastal landing? You can not just smash ships into any part of the map you want mister general.[/QUOTE]
hmmm hey dude maybe you should read my posts where i said an invasion wasn't even necessary? do you know how hard it is for a island nation with no naval power (which japan was at the end of the war) to be at all relevant in a intercontinental war???? you're calling me mister general when you're all the ones being all like the INEVITABLE INVASION TOTALLY WOULD HAVE COST MILLIONS OF LIVES I KNOW THIS BECAUSE i can see the future i guess??? hence, nostradamus school of military tactics lool
[editline]29th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;35745988]Watch out, youre next.[/QUOTE]
haha yeah i better watch out or some guy's gonna spend his real life money to give me a title on the internet... eek!
[editline]29th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;35746487]a whole lot of bullshit[/QUOTE]
it doesn't matter if what lankist said was incorrect or not it's irrelevant, there is no justification for using nuclear weapons on civilians. NONE. i don't give a fuck how many casualties it was ESTIMATED (wow, we're gonna end 200,000 lives and cause fucking endless generations of fucked up children because of radiation because of an estimation?) to have saved. the fact is, an invasion of mainland japan was unnecessary. continuing the war against japan was unnecessary, they had literally no way to fight in any other theater and had no allies left. the nuclear bomb was dickwaving and it cost 200,000 innocent people, who had nothing to do with the rape of nanking or all those fucked up experiments the japanese done on chinese civilians, and i find it hilarious you think that's even relevant because many of the perpetrators of those atrocities escaped persecution due to handing over their research to the USA or the soviets
[editline]29th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mon;35752846]yeah, totally not out for revenge, these people
i'm going to be honest here, i haven't been very impressed with the jewish community lately, and this doesn't help very much[/QUOTE]
i wouldn't consider this an act of the jewish community, more of the zionist one. most jews just want to get on with their lives i think.
[QUOTE=Mon;35752846]i haven't been very impressed with the jewish community lately[/QUOTE]
i don't understand why my group of people have to be blamed for shit miles away that i can't even control
people who endorse this probably killed Paarthurnax
and if you did that you're a dick. i mean he was cool, man.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35753122]hmmm hey dude maybe you should read my posts where i said an invasion wasn't even necessary? do you know how hard it is for a island nation with no naval power (which japan was at the end of the war) to be at all relevant in a intercontinental war???? you're calling me mister general when you're all the ones being all like the INEVITABLE INVASION TOTALLY WOULD HAVE COST MILLIONS OF LIVES I KNOW THIS BECAUSE i can see the future i guess??? hence, nostradamus school of military tactics lool[/QUOTE]
Yeah because it is so easy to fucking land troops on a mountainous island with every possible point for landing covered by enough anti tank, ship and infantry positions to wipe out an army. With every civilian perfectly prepared to commit suicide or to attack you in the event you get past the beaches. So fucking easy!
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;35756280]Yeah because it is so easy to fucking land troops on a mountainous island with every possible point for landing covered by enough anti tank, ship and infantry positions to wipe out an army. With every civilian perfectly prepared to commit suicide or to attack you in the event you get past the beaches. So fucking easy![/QUOTE]
holy shit did you even read the post you replied to??? what the fuck
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;35732872]Is it not? Something that's happening now is more important than something that happened almost 100 years ago.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the fact that Kony hasn't been active for upwards of 5 years lessens the cause. I refuse to support Invisible Children as they support other factions that also use child soldiers.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;35756280]Yeah because it is so easy to fucking land troops on a mountainous island with every possible point for landing covered by enough anti tank, ship and infantry positions to wipe out an army. With every civilian perfectly prepared to commit suicide or to attack you in the event you get past the beaches. So fucking easy![/QUOTE]
I like how you're treating the entire nation as a pack of wild suicidal dogs
really that isnt racist at all
[QUOTE=Lankist;35756511]I like how you're treating the entire nation as a pack of wild suicidal dogs
really that isnt racist at all[/QUOTE]
As far as I am aware, no that is not racist. He's not hating/discriminating a race, but instead (wrongly) pointing out how a nation was.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35753122]it doesn't matter if what lankist said was incorrect or not it's irrelevant,[/quote]
Debates rely on correct and relevant information, so it [i]does[/i] matter.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35753122]there is no justification for using nuclear weapons on civilians. NONE[/quote]
But it's apparently justified to use other more conventional weapons and ordnance...
That issue aside, we didn't bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki just to kill civilians, as you're so craftily and cunningly trying to imply here. Both cities were targeted because of their strategic value. This is the exact same thing that led to the Germans deciding to bomb Warsaw and London, the Japanese to bomb Shanghai and Nanking, the British to bomb Dresden and the Ruhr, the Italians to bomb Haifa and Acre, etc.
Read up on strategic bombing during World War II sometime before you comment on this stuff. Here: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_bombing_during_World_War_II[/url]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35753122]i don't give a fuck how many casualties it was ESTIMATED to have saved.[/quote]
Considering that these figures were postulated over the course of about a year and almost a dozen different studies conducted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Secretary of War Henry Stimson, Lauris Norstad, Curtis LeMay, and George C. Marshall... the issue of whether or not [i]you[/i] personally care about how many lives it saved us is not at all relevant.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35753122](wow, we're gonna end 200,000 lives and cause fucking endless generations of fucked up children because of radiation because of an estimation?)[/quote]
Actually, and I'm sure this will come as a surprise to you, birth defects were pretty low after the bombings in Japan. The National Research Council had the opportunity to send in hundreds of physicians to study and document (in excruciating detail) the effects radiation had on the people there, beginning three years after the bombings occurred.
[url]http://www.rerf.jp/radefx/genetics_e/birthdef.html[/url]
Of 76,626 infants examined, only 594 were suffering from some sort of major defect. The most common ones were cleft palates and lips, clubbed feet, additional fingers or toes, fusion of two or more fingers or toes together, and minor to severe skull malformations.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35753122]the fact is, an invasion of mainland japan was unnecessary.[/quote]
Well, yeah- that's extremely obvious. They finally agreed to surrender...
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35753122]continuing the war against japan was unnecessary, they had literally no way to fight in any other theater and had no allies left.[/quote]
Aw that's cute. You think they were fighting to win.
True, they had suffered horrible losses in Manchuria against the Soviets, they'd sallied forth what remnants were left of their navy out into the sea for an open confrontation with us and lost most of it in the process, they were being routinely bombed, and we'd begun landing on some of their native islands (Iwo Jima and Okinawa being the big ones)- but the mainlands were still heavily defended and occupied and were not going to fall anytime soon.
Winning had stopped being a priority of the Japanese military in April 1945 after Operation Ten-Go's disastrous failure. Thereafter, it was all about protecting their honor and fighting for as long as they could, as hard as they could- most of this stuff of course being based off their fervent beliefs in Bushido ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_propaganda_during_World_War_II#Bushido[/url]).
As I also mentioned earlier, they also believed that if they could fight the Allies and cause them enough casualties and material losses, they could negotiate an armistice or some sort of conditional surrender rather than be forced to accept total defeat through the Potsdam Declaration's proposition of an unconditional surrender.
The Japanese still had more than 2,000 aircraft, six aircraft carriers, four heavy cruisers, one battleship, 350 midget submarines, 400 Kaityen human torpedoes, 800 Shinyo suicide vessels, 900,000 uniformed troops (including three tank brigades), and [b]28 million[/b] civilians which they had drafted into the "Patriotic Citizens Fighting Corps" at their disposal (all men between 15 and 60 and women between 17 and 40 were drafted; they were armed with everything from bamboo spears to longbows, knives, and fucking [i]muskets[/i]).
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#Operation_Ketsug.C5.8D[/url]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35753122]the nuclear bomb was dickwaving and it cost 200,000 innocent people,[/quote]
The whole "We only built and used the atomic bombs on Japan to intimidate the Soviet Union and establish ourselves in the world forever as a major nuclear superpower" claim originally came from a... "colorful" gentlemen, to say the least, by the name of Gar Alperovitz who currently works at the University of Maryland as a professor of political economics and board member of the "New Economics Institute".
You can read more about him and his revisionist bullshit here: [url]http://books.google.com/books?id=A2Zv3VD6ptQC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=gar+alperovitz+revisionist&source=bl&ots=pjteht4GVb&sig=XtdqR6DoLRbMeMbtmC7kxotrqH8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=X1SdT7GwKs6EtgfkmbirAg&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=gar%20alperovitz&f=false[/url]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35753122]who had nothing to do with the rape of nanking or all those fucked up experiments the japanese done on chinese civilians,[/quote]
No shit; why are you telling me this? [i]He's[/i] the one who brought it up first.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35753122]and i find it hilarious you think that's even relevant[/quote]
See above.
Also, I find it hilarious how uninformed the two of you are about this issue. Actually, "uninformed" is an understatement; it's more like blatantly stupid.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35756511]I like how you're treating the entire nation as a pack of wild suicidal dogs
really that isnt racist at all[/QUOTE]
How about the battle of Saipan where a thousand civilians killed themselves when the US began winning. Or maybe where the same exact thing happened in Okinawa. Learn some basic history.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;35756875]How about the battle of Saipan where a thousand civilians killed themselves when the US began winning. Or maybe where the same exact thing happened in Okinawa. Learn some basic history.[/QUOTE]
They actually have footage of the mass suicides on Saipan:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDUy0uzmaU4[/media]
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;35756852]a whole lot of pointless shit [/QUOTE]
its weird how far you're willing to go to justify murdering 200,000 people
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35757153]its weird how far you're willing to go to justify murdering 200,000 people[/QUOTE]
Wow you are such a horrible fucking debater that it's sad.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;35757210]Wow you are such a horrible fucking debater that it's sad.[/QUOTE]
i don't care about debating mate
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;35756875]How about the battle of Saipan where a thousand civilians killed themselves when the US began winning. Or maybe where the same exact thing happened in Okinawa. Learn some basic history.[/QUOTE]
how about how your backward fucking bullshit is what justified internment camps in the United States
you know that general part of history
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35757391]i don't care about debating mate[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on 99% of the issues, this being one of them hence my leniency but if you're not going to debate at all and contribute shit then stop posting, last warning.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;35757469]I agree with you on 99% of the issues, this being one of them hence my leniency but if you're not going to debate at all and contribute shit then stop posting, last warning.[/QUOTE]
wow mod favouritism... just kidding. ok dude
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;35756852]Also, I find it hilarious how uninformed the two of you are about this issue. Actually, "uninformed" is an understatement; it's more like blatantly stupid.[/QUOTE]
I'm a piece of shit jingoistic American
LunchboxOfDoom's Avatar
June 2010
3,798 Posts
somehow i get the feeling that you have a bias.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;35757153]its weird how far you're willing to go to justify murdering 200,000 people[/QUOTE]
ok let me add to this, i don't find your points worth debatable, because what i'm debating isn't whether or not the nukes were needed because it caused less casualties than if an invasion happened. because i don't care if they would, i do not believe that any ends justifies the means if that means is to drop nuclear bombs on civilian cities ok
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment[/URL]
US concentration camps for Japanese, minus the gas.
Was anyone brought to justice for this? Of course not.
Canada had those camps too. That's a very shameful part of our contribution to the war.
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;35757937]Canada had those camps too. That's a very shameful part of our contribution to the war.[/QUOTE]
no you dont get it man not like those other two do
the japanese were suicidal killers, every single one of them.
thats why they were going to surrender after the first nuke
and by first nuke i mean "massive soviet invasion"
[QUOTE=Unsmart;35757910][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment[/URL]
US concentration camps for Japanese, minus the gas.
Was anyone brought to justice for this? Of course not.[/QUOTE]
No one here has denied US camps were evil and stupid.
Also, comparing them to German ones is silly seeing as they were a lot less brutal than the Nazi counter parts.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;35758250]No one here has denied US camps were evil and stupid.
Also, comparing them to German ones is silly seeing as they were a lot less brutal than the Nazi counter parts.[/QUOTE]
yes ruining people's lives, making them completely unemployable and sending them into poverty for the next twenty years after locking them, their families and their friends up in makeshift prison labor camps due to the kind of racist, xenophobic bullshit that you're touting, that's okay.
in case you didn't realize, captain history, we're talking about [I]japan[/I] right now, not germany. Japan was only tangentially tied to the axis, joining the war out of opportunism and not out of direct support for the nazis.
but hey, "the nazis were worse" TOTALLY applies to the horrible shit we did to people in a completely different country.
[editline]29th April 2012[/editline]
go ahead and rate me dumb because that will make you look like less of a xenophobic, jingoistic ponce.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;35745104]There's two kinds of nazis. The ones who did it because why not and the ones who were forced to do so. Most low rank nazis like guards and soldiers were mainly from the second group. Disobeying would result in death so they didn't have much choice. I disagree with imprisoning these people, especially when they're 90. It achieves nothing. The still alive nazis don't expect forgiveness, they just want to live their last years peacefully. Imprisonment imo should only be used for rehabilitation and/or removing dangerous criminals from the streets. This old chap does not need rehabilitation and is not danger to anyone.
Just because they did something terrible during war does not mean you should hold the grunge against them. How about instead of throwing old geezers in jail, we actually fill the empty cells with actually dangerous criminals? Sounds like a better solution to me. Stop living in the past, live in the future without the mistakes done in the past.[/QUOTE]
I phrased myself wrong. I don't think anyone who was a Nazi is guilty of crimes against humanity, but someone like this man, who gunned down so many, and the ones who spent considerable time killing them, should not be let off just because they are old. They should have to spend the rest of their short lives in misery for the misery they caused for millions of people.
[QUOTE=crackberry;35758326]I phrased myself wrong. I don't think anyone who was a Nazi is guilty of crimes against humanity, but someone like this man, who gunned down so many, and the ones who spent considerable time killing them, should not be let off just because they are old. They should have to spend the rest of their short lives in misery for the misery they caused for millions of people.[/QUOTE]
Why? So that your twisted sense of justice and revenge can be pleased? One nazi soldier couldn't have impact on millions of people. You disgust me much more than these old fart nazis, wanting to lock an old man who isn't doing anything wrong any more, leaving him to live his short life and die in misery, that's just disgusting.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35758306]yes ruining people's lives, making them completely unemployable and sending them into poverty for the next twenty years after locking them, their families and their friends up in makeshift prison labor camps due to the kind of racist, xenophobic bullshit that you're touting, that's okay.
in case you didn't realize, captain history, we're talking about [I]japan[/I] right now, not germany. Japan was only tangentially tied to the axis, joining the war out of opportunism and not out of direct support for the nazis.
but hey, "the nazis were worse" TOTALLY applies to the horrible shit we did to people in a completely different country.
[editline]29th April 2012[/editline]
go ahead and rate me dumb because that will make you look like less of a xenophobic, jingoistic ponce.[/QUOTE]
Nice job reading shit head.
He said we had concentration camps like the Nazis except without gas chambers, I said that is not true because our prison camps were less brutal. If you did not skip over what you did not want to read, I said they were evil and stupid. Unlike Nazi prison camps, we did not execute prisoners constantly, we did not use them for manual labor and we did not starve them. I never even hinted they were okay.
Now in case you did not realized, he brought up the [I]Nazis[/I], because it was tied in with [I]Japan[/I] (you capitalize the name of a country btw, kindergarten grammar and all.) Did you even read my post?
Also wow you are cool because some one rates you dumb you make a big shit over it wow good job. Maybe I would not dumb vote you if you did not have the debating skills of a dying six year old with downs syndrome.
Uhm no, according to the people who were IN those prison camps, they were not a fucking picnic.
I'm not saying you were fine with them. I'm saying your stupid racist bullshit is why they existed in the first place.
[editline]29th April 2012[/editline]
Remember that time when you said all japanese were suicidal and murderous, and then acted like some people who killed themselves when their homes were being FIREBOMBED was proof?
Yeah. That part.
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