• Supreme Court rejects gun rights appeal
    101 replies, posted
[QUOTE=_Axel;52437722] This purpose of "protecting your rights" people attach to the second amendment is little more than an American fantasy. Most first world countries don't grant a right to bear arms, and our rights are not being infringed upon any more than yours. The belief that a few rednecks with shotguns are going to stand up to the worlds' most powerful army is delusional, anyway. If you want to protect your rights, you better work on your broken checks and balance system instead of focusing on firearms. Your guns seem to be doing a pretty poor job of preventing the bumbling buffoon in the WH from depriving US citizens of basic needs.[/quote] Call it a fantasy but it's worked so far. And most first world countries don't have true and through free speech like the US does. [QUOTE=_Axel;52437722] My point is that voting for republicans based on the single issue of gun rights disregards more important and blatant issues republicans are only going to make worse. If the republicans proposed a better alternative than the ACA, you would have a point. But their interests seem to point against it and they don't seem to have any idea what they're doing on top of that.[/QUOTE] And the current version of the ACA sucks as it is, though I don't support the Trump/Republican version of the ACA or getting rid of it entirely. But I'm sorry that a hobby I have my life savings invested in, and a right that protects all of our other rights, is more important to me than healthcare. It's not like democrats are shining beacons of perfect politics anyways, they're just as corrupt and foolish as republicans are. Until someone proposes universal healthcare that actually has a decent chance of getting on the presidents desk (twice, enough for him to veto it then be forced to sign it), I'm not going to switch sides over one issue.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52438203]Call it a fantasy but it's worked so far.[/QUOTE] "Why are you scattering banana peels around your house?" "It's to scare off alligators." "This is ridiculous." "Well, has it not worked so far? Do you see any alligator around?" That your rights have been relatively well respected so far has absolutely nothing to do with citizens' rights to bear arms. [QUOTE]And most first world countries don't have true and through free speech like the US does.[/QUOTE] What does that have to do with anything? Not every country has the same criteria for free speech as the US. It's not about people's rights not being protected, it's about their definition differing due to a difference in values. And how do firearms come into play here? Has gun ownership ever had any impact on people's right to free speech? The two are completely unrelated. [QUOTE]And the current version of the ACA sucks as it is, though I don't support the Trump/Republican version of the ACA or getting rid of it entirely.[/QUOTE] So it sucks less than whatever alternative republicans are trying to introduce then? [QUOTE]and a right that protects all of our other rights,[/QUOTE] Already established that is bullshit. [QUOTE]is more important to me than healthcare.[/QUOTE] ...and minority rights, and religious freedom, and a decent foreign policy, and environmental protection, and preventing global warming, and... [QUOTE]It's not like democrats are shining beacons of perfect politics anyways, they're just as corrupt and foolish as republicans are.[/QUOTE] Nobody is saying they are. They just happen to have a more palatable platform. [QUOTE]Until someone proposes universal healthcare that actually has a decent chance of getting on the presidents desk (twice, enough for him to veto it then be forced to sign it), I'm not going to switch sides over one issue.[/QUOTE] So your stance is "until a perfect solution is proposed, I'd rather go for the worst of the two options available"?
[QUOTE=_Axel;52438252]"Why are you scattering banana peels around your house?" "It's to scare off alligators." "This is ridiculous." "Well, has it not worked so far? Do you see any alligator around?" That your rights have been relatively well respected so far has absolutely nothing to do with citizens' rights to bear arms.[/quote] If you want to make false equivalencies, then yea that sounds about right. I really appreciate that you're taking this seriously and being very respectful. I wouldn't call gun rights "well respected" in the US; they've come under extreme regulations in the past 100 or so years. [QUOTE=_Axel;52438252] What does that have to do with anything? Not every country has the same criteria for free speech as the US. It's not about people's rights not being protected, it's about their definition differing due to a difference in values.[/quote] Yea, and I'm saying that most countries don't have free speech like the US does. Part of the reason we've been able to maintain that is because of our 2A. [QUOTE=_Axel;52438252] And how do firearms come into play here? Has gun ownership ever had any impact on people's right to free speech? The two are completely unrelated.[/quote] As I've said 47 times prior to this point, the 2A protects the rest of our rights. It's not there so we can have fun shooting tin cans or hunt deer, it's to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government, internal or external. [QUOTE=_Axel;52438252] So it sucks less than whatever alternative republicans are trying to introduce then?[/quote] I guess [QUOTE=_Axel;52438252] Already established that is bullshit. [/quote] And you're wrong [QUOTE=_Axel;52438252] ...and minority rights, and religious freedom, and a decent foreign policy, and environmental protection, and preventing global warming, and...[/quote] Still less important than our first amendment but thanks for continuing to bring this up. Want to ask me if I care more about guns than children next? [QUOTE=_Axel;52438252] Nobody is saying they are. They just happen to have a more palatable platform.[/quote] One tastes like dog shit and the other tastes like cat shit. Definitely worth switching from one corrupt and broken party to the other corrupt and broken party for that reason. [QUOTE=_Axel;52438252] So your stance is "until a perfect solution is proposed, I'd rather go for the worst of the two options available"?[/QUOTE] Until someone proposes universal healthcare, I'm going to vote for the things that are more important to me. It doesn't matter which version of the ACA is in use; Myself, and god knows how many other Americans, are fucked from a healthcare perspective. We're overpaying out the ass and getting practically no coverage. Until universal healthcare comes about, I'm not going to dick around worrying about healthcare. Still going after the strawman huh?
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52438507]If you want to make false equivalencies, then yea that sounds about right. I really appreciate that you're taking this seriously and being very respectful. I wouldn't call gun rights "well respected" in the US; they've come under extreme regulations in the past 100 or so years.[/quote] So gun ownership even fails to protect gun rights? That basically proves my point then. Do you have anything that shows the right to bear arms contributes in any way whatsoever to the protection of your rights, other than wishful thinking on your part? [Quote]Yea, and I'm saying that most countries don't have free speech like the US does. Part of the reason we've been able to maintain that is because of our 2A.[/quote] We don't have the same kind of free speech as the US because we don't want to, not because of a failure to safeguard our rights... Believe it or not, the US is not the world's role model when it comes to human rights, and other countries have different constitutions than yours. Europeans simply happen to deal less in absolutes. [Quote]As I've said 47 times prior to this point, the 2A protects the rest of our rights. It's not there so we can have fun shooting tin cans or hunt deer, it's to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government, internal or external.[/quote] You can say the same thing a thousand times, it's not going to be convincing unless you bring up actual facts to back up that assertion. If you believe gun rights somehow contributes to rights being respected, then show me something that indicates it. The myriad of healthy first world countries that don't allow their citizens to bear arms leads me to think it's not as important a protection as you make it out to be. [Quote]And you're wrong[/quote] Prove it then. [Quote]Still less important than our first amendment but thanks for continuing to bring this up.[/quote] Good thing the first amendment has nothing to do whatsoever with gun rights then. Are gun rights more important than all the things I brought up? [Quote]One tastes like dog shit and the other tastes like cat shit. Definitely worth switching from one corrupt and broken party to the other corrupt and broken party for that reason.[/quote] If one party pushes more sensible policies than the other... Yes? [Quote]Until someone proposes universal healthcare, I'm going to vote for the things that are more important to me. It doesn't matter which version of the ACA is in use; Myself, and god knows how many other Americans, are fucked from a healthcare perspective. We're overpaying out the ass and getting practically no coverage. Until universal healthcare comes about, I'm not going to dick around worrying about healthcare. Still going after the strawman huh?[/QUOTE] You don't seem to understand what a strawman is. Healthcare is far from the sole issue with the Republican party, as I've already pointed out. If you're willing to disregard them all simply because of a hobby then I guess it just says a lot about your character.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52438548]So gun ownership even fails to protect gun rights? That basically proves my point then.[/quote] Are you suggesting gun owners go and start a revolution because the NFA was put in place? That wasn't my point at all. Some of the restrictions put in place around firearms in the last 100 years have been a good thing; but things like the AWB, not so much. I don't think its worth starting a revolution over a law that has a sunset clause. [QUOTE=_Axel;52438548] Do you have anything that shows the right to bear arms contributes in any way whatsoever to the protection of your rights, other than wishful thinking on your part?[/quote] Civil War, other than that, the fact that we still have those rights. [QUOTE=_Axel;52438548] We don't have the same kind of free speech as the US because we don't want to, not because of a failure to safeguard our rights... Believe it or not, the US is not the world's role model when it comes to human rights, and other countries have different constitutions than yours. Europeans simply happen to deal less in absolutes.[/quote] It's fine that you don't want to have free speech, but in my mind having unrestricted speech is pretty damned important. I'm aware the US isn't a rolemodel nation in very many regards, if any. [QUOTE=_Axel;52438548] You can say the same thing a thousand times, it's not going to be convincing unless you bring up actual facts to back up that assertion. If you believe gun rights somehow contributes to rights being respected, then show me something that indicates it. The myriad of healthy first world countries that don't allow their citizens to bear arms leads me to think it's not as important a protection as you make it out to be.[/quote] The only thing I can point to is the fact that we still have our rights. [QUOTE=_Axel;52438548] Prove it then.[/quote] Prove me wrong. We still have our Bill of Rights and it's going strong. [QUOTE=_Axel;52438548] Good thing the first amendment has nothing to do whatsoever with gun rights then. Are gun rights more important than all the things I brought up?[/quote] They're the foundation that keeps the other rights active, so yea. To answer your second question, yes. So how will you use that to demonize me next? [QUOTE=_Axel;52438548] If one party pushes more sensible policies than the other... Yes?[/quote] Sensible things like cosmetic firearm bans lol. Thats not something I can get behind. [QUOTE=_Axel;52438548] You don't seem to understand what a strawman is. Healthcare is far from the sole issue with the Republican party, as I've already pointed out. If you're willing to disregard them all simply because of a hobby then I guess it just says a lot about your character.[/QUOTE] Guess so, I might as well be Hitler incarnate because I give certain politics priority over others, like every other person on the god damn planet. You're going after me because I'm for something you're against. [editline]6th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RichyZ;52438601]the aca is the reason why i was able to get coverage for my last surgery [/QUOTE] Congrats, the ACA is why I was put into debt last year trying to pay off a $2,500 fine for going a month without health insurance during a job transition. The ACA has it's ups and downs but it still sucks. Until universal healthcare comes around in the US, health insurance and healthcare will always be complete trash. Medical care should not be an industry a company goes into to make massive profits.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52439018]Are you suggesting gun owners go and start a revolution because the NFA was put in place? That wasn't my point at all. Some of the restrictions put in place around firearms in the last 100 years have been a good thing; but things like the AWB, not so much. I don't think its worth starting a revolution over a law that has a sunset clause.[/QUOTE] That's not my point either. You're the one who claims the second amendment protects your other rights. It doesn't seem to even protect itself apparently, how do you expect it to protect the first amendment for instance? [QUOTE]Civil War[/QUOTE] Didn't turn out so well for the secessionists. If anything, their being able to rebel went against granting rights to slaves, so depending on your point of view firearm ownership may have hindered the granting of basic rights. [QUOTE]It's fine that you don't want to have free speech, but in my mind having unrestricted speech is pretty damned important. I'm aware the US isn't a rolemodel nation in very many regards, if any.[/QUOTE] We have free speech, it's simply different from yours. American markets have tons of regulations, doesn't mean it's not a free market. You don't stop having freedom simply because of a few restrictions. [QUOTE]Other than that, the fact that we still have those rights. The only thing I can point to is the fact that we still have our rights. Prove me wrong. We still have our Bill of Rights and it's going strong.[/QUOTE] So in essence, you have no argument? That you still "have your rights" doesn't exactly show jack shit, considering European countries' constitutions are going strong as well. The burden of proof is on you. You're the one who claims the second amendment is the safeguard to your other rights, despite other countries' rights being fine without a right to bear arms. You have to show the causal link between the two. [QUOTE]They're the foundation that keeps the other rights active, so yea.[/QUOTE] Unless you actually show me evidence of that being the case, no. [QUOTE]To answer your second question, yes. So how will you use that to demonize me next?[/QUOTE] Nothing, I just think it's pretty sad that someone could be so attached to an inanimate object that they'll make up shit about it being the sole guardian of democracy to justify putting it before actual human beings. [QUOTE]Sensible things like cosmetic firearm bans lol. Thats not something I can get behind. Guess so, I might as well be Hitler incarnate because I give certain politics priority over others, like every other person on the god damn planet. You're going after me because I'm for something you're against.[/QUOTE] I personally don't give a fuck about gun rights staying as is in the US, it's too late to backtrack now anyway. What I'm baffled about is that people would put it on such a pedestal that they'd neglect everything else in favor of it. I can't help but see single issue voting as plain stupidity, sorry.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;52438601]i dont want to think youre comparing being a gun owner to being a discriminated minority ala lgbt folk or The Blacks but are you doing this?[/QUOTE] how the heck did you get that idea
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