Top Gear did not libel carmaker Tesla, high court rules
59 replies, posted
Without fail, any time I hear/read the word Tesla this immediately jumps into my head.
[img]http://images.wikia.com/cnc/images/e/e0/TeslaCoil.PNG[/img]
Hydrogen is stable when stored up to the point where the container is punctured. That's where it becomes a problem.
People worry too much.
[QUOTE=Man Without Hat;32903838]Hydrogen is stable when stored up to the point where the container is punctured. That's where it becomes a problem.
People worry too much.[/QUOTE]
car crash.
I don't understand the big deal. Even if it was staged ... the entire first half (and even parts of the second half) of the episode was complimenting the Tesla Roadster. Didn't exactly seem like they "hated it".
[QUOTE=Man Without Hat;32903838]Hydrogen is stable when stored up to the point where the container is punctured. That's where it becomes a problem.
People worry too much.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that [B]WHEN[/B] the container is punctured, then all hell breaks loose.
With ordinary gasoline, the fire fighters just cover it with fire suppressing foam until the situation is stabilized.
Also since gasoline isn't stored under high pressure, it's easier to design a tank that doesn't take up much space, while containing a membrane that seals the puncturing hole(s) in-case of a accident (or gunfire)
[QUOTE=Van-man;32905145]The problem is that [B]WHEN[/B] the container is punctured, then all hell breaks loose.
With ordinary gasoline, the fire fighters just cover it with fire suppressing foam until the situation is stabilized.
Also since gasoline isn't stored under high pressure, it's easier to design a tank that doesn't take up much space, while containing a membrane that seals the puncturing hole(s) in-case of a accident (or gunfire)[/QUOTE]
yes. A big problem that someone will solve.
[QUOTE=GunFox;32898359]Hybrids have a massive impact on the environment.
The current methods of producing their batteries coupled with their low service life and the lightweight alloys that cause untold industrial waste, make hybrids less healthy for the environment than an H2. H2's are made almost entirely out of mild steel, which is relatively easy to make and can be recycled very easily. This offsets their carbon emissions quite nicely once you take into consideration that they have a long expected service life. Far longer than that of most hybrids.
Hybrids are not, and will never be, the answer.[/QUOTE]
Actually thats a BIG myth that has been discredited many times...
From the actual episode:
"So Tesla say even if you drive quickly, it'll go 200 miles between trips to the plug."
After it ran out:
"Although Tesla say it'll do 200 miles, we worked out that on out track it would run out after just 55 miles."
Well Tesla website says 245 miles range which is obviously measured using lower speeds and more stable power consumption. But it's a sports car and TG gave it a sports car treatment, which isn't like just a lovely drive over the countryside. I'll give Tesla the benefit of the doubt that I can't say that engine overheating and brake failure happened as a fact, but I can say that a car is supposed to hold up well even when used near the "red zone" or whatever you'd call it.
While I do agree they should have elaborated on the problems a bit more, I don't see TG in the wrong.
[QUOTE=Zah;32906292]Actually thats a BIG myth that has been discredited many times...[/QUOTE]
Happen to have any links that discredit said myth?
screw non-nuclear proliferation
I want my fission reactor car
[QUOTE=Memobot;32905195]yes. A big problem that someone will solve.[/QUOTE]
Only solution is to build a rollcage-like structure covered in kevlar or similar around the tank.
And that's gonna take up a serous amount of space compared to the amount of fuel the tank will be able to hold.
That or storing it at JUST the pressure where it's liquid, but that'll result in incredibly gimped range compared to the tank size (again)
[editline]22nd October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Contag;32907440]screw non-nuclear proliferation
I want my fission reactor car[/QUOTE]
Tokamak Fusion reactor :science:
[QUOTE=Noth;32907415]Happen to have any links that discredit said myth?[/QUOTE]
The H2 story came from the daily mail if I remember correctly
[url]http://www.thecarconnection.com/tips-article/1010861_prius-versus-hummer-exploding-the-myth[/url]
yeah
Also here's an excerpt from an email I sent to one of my high school teachers last year after she made a comment on the Prius.
[quote]Prius vs. Hummer
This information is completely from CNW Marketing Research, an automotive marketing research company. They published "From Dust to Dust" detailing how the Prius has a shorter lifespan than a Hummer, and that it uses more energy.
[url]http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/DUST%20PDF%20VERSION.pdf[/url]
Toyota had a response to this which can be found below. They make key points on incorrect information in "From Dust to Dust" about statistics on energy cost from operation of the vehicle versus production. CNW stated that the production energy cost was much higher than actually shown across all vehicles, not just the Prius. Toyota counters with statistics accumulated by 5 different independent studies.
[url]http://www.toyota.com/html/dyncon/2007/september/hummervprius.html[/url]
Furthermore, the information about the possible mileage a Prius shown in "From Dust to Dust" does not match up with averages of any other Toyota Vehicle, and does not match up with milages already accumulated by Prius owners. CNW claims that Toyota avoids posting total energy costs of production by moving processes to suppliers. This has been shown to be not true, and that Toyota does accurately display the costs.
These early miscalculations were based on assumptions, which CNW has admitted to in "Why 100,000 Miles for Prius?" They also have made similar updates where they corrected the many mistakes they made in their papers. I'd like to clarify that it is fact that their mistakes were plentiful, and also that CNW made a crucial error with their work. They did not peer review their work, and even boasted (I read this bit straight from CNW's original paper) that nobody had seen it the information before release. They also do not cite any sources or other studies. Because of this, they are entirely liable for their mistakes.
[url]http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/Why%201001000%20Miles%20for%20Prius.pdf[/url]
[url]http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of_science/case_studies/hummer_vs_prius.pdf[/url]
CNW's revised data shows that hybrids cost less per mile than any SUV, although this is still not peer reviewed or cited.[/quote]
Pretty much everything Top Gear do is staged. Including car reviews. They decide what they want to say about it and then make it happen.
I don't think they're a reputable source of car reviews. They just fuck about.
[QUOTE=garry;32907979]They just fuck about.[/QUOTE]
That's what makes it so entertaining.
[QUOTE=garry;32907979]Pretty much everything Top Gear do is staged. Including car reviews. They decide what they want to say about it and then make it happen.
I don't think they're a reputable source of car reviews. They just fuck about.[/QUOTE]
Yep, braindead entertainment camouflaged as a car show.
5'th Gear is more factual, but also tend to be more boring at times.
And Tiff's lisp (or what seems to be similar to lisping) pisses me off greatly for some reason.
Frankly, if you're a regular viewer of Top Gear, chances are you won't be buying an electric car anyways. Especially not one that costs in excess of $100,000.
[QUOTE=Thaard;32903758]Didn't Top Gear do a test on how electric cars aren't the future(in the state they are now)?
The problem was that you had to plan your trips carefully, since not every gas station had recharging equipment. The battery takes 13 hours to recharge when it's more or less empty. There are ways to recharge it faster, but then the battery deteriorates faster. You'd have to chance battery after 3 years, which is really uneconomic(even if you don't have to pay congestion charges).[/QUOTE]
They have already developed a slurry which serves as a battery.
You can pump it out and replace it with charged slurry at a station, or charge the slurry in the vehicle when you are at home.
No expensive replacement batteries, as the slurry would simply be pumped out on a semi regular basis anyhow, and no long charge ups, but you CAN retain the ability to slowly charge it up at home.
The stuff is currently undergoing testing and will likely need several iterations before it can even begin to think about hitting the market, but the tech is out there and it is coming down the pipe considerably faster than other alternatives.
[QUOTE=Van-man;32905145]The problem is that [B]WHEN[/B] the container is punctured, then all hell breaks loose.
With ordinary gasoline, the fire fighters just cover it with fire suppressing foam until the situation is stabilized.
Also since gasoline isn't stored under high pressure, it's easier to design a tank that doesn't take up much space, while containing a membrane that seals the puncturing hole(s) in-case of a accident (or gunfire)[/QUOTE]
As controversial as it would be, theoretically storing the hydrogen tank surrounded by (sealed) ozone would fix that problem. As soon as there's a puncture - > Reacts to form water and releases a small amount of heat.
Of course if the ozone container got punctured and the hydrogen didn't, you'd have ozone escape.
[QUOTE=Zah;32906292]Actually thats a BIG myth that has been discredited many times...[/QUOTE]
Which was in turn misleading in itself.
The emissions are indeed lower for the Prius. The amount of greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere is lower, but the kicker is the fact that greenhouse gases aren't the only thing you have to worry about.
I am concerned with overall environmental impact. You aren't doing us a lot of good if you just change from greenhouse gases to massive industrial waste. Especially if your vehicle is next to impossible to recycle.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K63jY9tKpoI[/media]
Is one of the many reasons why I love Top Gear.
Couldn't find the original clip, sorry.
[QUOTE=GunFox;32910609]Which was in turn misleading in itself.
The emissions are indeed lower for the Prius. The amount of greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere is lower, but the kicker is the fact that greenhouse gases aren't the only thing you have to worry about.
I am concerned with overall environmental impact. You aren't doing us a lot of good if you just change from greenhouse gases to massive industrial waste. Especially if your vehicle is next to impossible to recycle.[/QUOTE]
That's a thing to consider, if the ecological impact made per car during its production outweighs the eco friendliness of the car itself, there's no point in having it to begin with.
[QUOTE=wewt!;32910679]That's a thing to consider, if the ecological impact made per car during its production outweighs the eco friendliness of the car itself, there's no point in having it to begin with.[/QUOTE]
Just like some windmills.
Takes a fuckload of chemicals and energy to produce them, compared to how much energy they produce.
[QUOTE=GunFox;32910471]They have already developed a slurry which serves as a battery.
You can pump it out and replace it with charged slurry at a station, or charge the slurry in the vehicle when you are at home.
No expensive replacement batteries, as the slurry would simply be pumped out on a semi regular basis anyhow, and no long charge ups, but you CAN retain the ability to slowly charge it up at home.
The stuff is currently undergoing testing and will likely need several iterations before it can even begin to think about hitting the market, but the tech is out there and it is coming down the pipe considerably faster than other alternatives.[/QUOTE]
Got a link or something like that? sounds interesting.
Eh, I like Tesla, and I like Top Gear, and I just never take anything Top Gear do seriously. Anyone who watches it on a regular basis knows they shouldn't.
We should be working on getting off the planet or a good amount of the population, and then there will be less people on the planet with out killing each other to do it.
[QUOTE=Van-man;32912474]
Got a link or something like that? sounds interesting.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/flow-batteries-0606.html[/url]
I think that was the right one.
EDIT: wow, it was actually even closer than I thought. Sometime in 2013 they should have a functional model for vehicles. How long, and if, that hits production, I have no idea.
Holy shit a news thread filled with almost entirely good arguments. GunFox being one of the prime contenders obviously.
[editline]23rd October 2011[/editline]
Oh and while I do believe that electric cars are the way, the current ones are quite shit. Tesla obviously made a good car, but Top Gear is a fucking comedy show and they can't do a show with a car with so little problems, so they exaggerated the run-down of the car. I agree with the judge on this one.
[img]http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/gif/teslapic.jpg[/img]
"I do not approve."
What next? Bugatti suing top gear because they said "At top speed, the veryon will use all of it's fuel in 12 minutes"
I don't know why they would be complaining that he said it lasted 55 miles out of 200 that they claim. When i autocross my my mustang it'll eat just under half a tank of gas (approx. 5-6 gallons or 100-125 miles) and I'll have only traveled maybe 15 miles..
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