Mojang working on three new games - Polidicks

[QUOTE=jmazouri;34256017]Everybody's just mad because they bought a clearly marked beta/alpha then expected the end product to be drastically different for some reason.[/QUOTE] I expect what I was promised for the final product when I bought the alpha. I still have to see where that zombie defense game mode went, as well as a bunch of other stuff that has been taken out of the product page silently. Besides, I'm really glad Notch passed on the development of Minecraft to Jeb, at least he doesn't break more shit than he fixes when a new update comes out.

Why three games? I could understand if they decided to move on from Minecraft to a new game while still tending to Minecraft, however Mojang seems far from a company large or individually competent enough to work on 3 different games at the same time.

[QUOTE=jmazouri;34256017]Everybody's just mad because they bought a clearly marked beta/alpha then expected the end product to be drastically different for some reason.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure most people expected a finished product when it was released Because that's normally what happens with a release

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;34255695]Before proving they can make games without notch they should prove they can fix notch's shit with Minecraft, which is still glitchy as fuck, unfinished and lacks a lot of promised features.[/QUOTE] As far as I know thats exactly what jeb is doing

[QUOTE=Cone;34256263]Pretty sure most people expected a finished product when it was released Because that's normally what happens with a release[/QUOTE] I think the game is finished. After all it is a game that you bought for a very small amount of money. Most people played tons of minecraft and already "got" their gameplay value of the game. Afterall it is a business where you earn money. You can't expect someone to constantly release new stuff for free, especially for such a small developper company. Although their business management is really lacking. Feels like they lack some coordination.

here comes the notch defense force weeo weeo weeo

Oh fuck you. I am not a huge fan of Minecraft, I hardly play the game at all. I am just trying to be fair about stuff. Hate all you want but there are some good sides though. You cannot deny that. You heuristic tool.

I am drifting to much in this topic anyway. :v: Seriously I do not really give a damn about minecraft. I just find it really harsh of you guys blaming him for every single failure. I will stop commenting on this shit now.

[QUOTE=The golden;34259460]Er, it [I]was[/I] HIS game and HIS company. Who are we supposed to blame? His neighbors cat?[/QUOTE] Also he coded like 90% of it, and even forgetting how much he's buggered up Minecraft he's still a complete tool.

[QUOTE=junker|154;34258585]I think the game is finished. After all it is a game that you bought for a very small amount of money. Most people played tons of minecraft and already "got" their gameplay value of the game. Afterall it is a business where you earn money. You can't expect someone to constantly release new stuff for free, especially for such a small developper company. Although their business management is really lacking. Feels like they lack some coordination.[/QUOTE] Its not updating for free, its developing an unfinished game. There is a difference between adding to a finished and unfinished game. Sure they would say its officially "out" but its obviously not finished.

[QUOTE=The golden;34243086]You clearly haven't seen 90% of indie games. I'll give you a few examples just off the top of my head: Eufloria, Machinarium, Rock of Ages, Space Pirates and Zombies, Darwinia. That's just after 5 seconds of thinking. There is more than I could possibly keep track of. They're all polished and enjoyable games made by teams smaller than Mojang and with MUCH less money.[/QUOTE] Dude, what about cave story?!

[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;34258620]here comes the notch defense force weeo weeo weeo[/QUOTE] Good thing Red Herring Assault Team is ready for the preemptive counter attack. [editline]18th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=imasillypiggy;34269685]Its not updating for free, its developing an unfinished game. There is a difference between adding to a finished and unfinished game. Sure they would say its officially "out" but its obviously not finished.[/QUOTE] Define finished, because clearly lots of people considered "finished" enough to buy back when there was nothing but creative mode. "Finished", and even "alpha" and "beta" are completely arbitrary terms for this sort of game.

They only got it when it was in creative mode because they wanted to play the game when its finished. The only reason the term finished doesn't seem to work well for minecraft is because they called it finished in such a crappy state.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;34270897]They only got it when it was in creative mode because they wanted to play the game when its finished. The only reason the term finished doesn't seem to work well for minecraft is because they called it finished in such a scrappy state.[/QUOTE] "Finished" doesn't apply because even in it's most simplest iterations during the first few weeks of development, it was a playable game. Most games are developed like a car, where it only really works when most of the pieces are in place. Minecraft was playable even in it''s most basic iterations from the first weeks of development, and gradually added more features from there. Just because it didn't turn out how you were hoping, or because Notch proved why people with ADHD shouldn't be self-employed, doesn't mean it's "unfinished"

INDIE CURSE who else remembers that thread

[QUOTE=Mingebox;34270998]Most games are developed like a car, where it only really works when most of the pieces are in place. Minecraft was playable even in it''s most basic iterations from the first weeks of development, and gradually added more features from there.[/QUOTE] ...the fuck? One, [URL="http://www.advancedta.com/powertrain/powertrain.jpg"]you don't need a whole lot of the total components of a production car to make a functioning car[/URL]. It won't function [I]well,[/I] but it'll still be a car. Two, since when aren't most games playable in some form or another well before they're finished? You act like prototyping well before the alpha stage with preholder assets is uncommon. Halflife 2 would have been playable in late 2001, it just would have been awful. [QUOTE=imasillypiggy;34270897]They only got it when it was in creative mode because they wanted to play the game when its finished.[/QUOTE] Damn straight. Finished being defined as "when it had some fucking content" not "when it was playable to a meaningful degree" since that would imply I'd be willing to buy friggin' pre-alphas.

Man, I get why you guys would be pissed because he isn't finishing the game, but you have to admit one thing. If you had the kind of money Notch has, you'd be vacationing all of the time too v:v:v

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;34271847]...the fuck? One, [URL="http://www.advancedta.com/powertrain/powertrain.jpg"]you don't need a whole lot of the total components of a production car to make a functioning car[/URL]. It won't function [I]well,[/I] but it'll still be a car. Two, since when aren't most games playable in some form or another well before they're finished? You act like prototyping well before the alpha stage with preholder assets is uncommon. Halflife 2 would have been playable in late 2001, it just would have been awful. [/QUOTE] I guarantee far more people played the earliest versions of Minecraft and enjoyed it for what it was than would play Half-Life 2 of no story, basic guns, and dev-textured alpha maps. Tons of people enjoyed it just for the free-build, and many still do. A more traditional game is going to be more obviously unfinished until it's completely done, because they don't start at the first level, add all the textures, sounds, scripts, music, and voice acting, and then start on the next one, you only really get something enjoyable once everything starts fitting into place. Minecraft started in the first few weeks as a very basic game but enjoyable, if only for the novelty.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;34272151]I guarantee far more people played the earliest versions of Minecraft and enjoyed it for what it was than would play Half-Life 2 of no story, basic guns, and dev-textured alpha maps. Tons of people enjoyed it just for the free-build, and many still do. A more traditional game is going to be more obviously unfinished until it's completely done, because they don't start at the first level, add all the textures, sounds, scripts, music, and voice acting, and then start on the next one, you only really get something enjoyable once everything starts fitting into place. Minecraft started in the first few weeks as a very basic game but enjoyable, if only for the novelty.[/QUOTE] You are missing the point entirely though. When people say Minecraft is 'unfinished', they mean that it completely lacks most of the features that Notch promised in his blog when he used to write about it, and all of the awesome ideas he wanted to put in. It has none of that, people are annoyed because the game is completely unfinished when you compared what Notch planned to do with it (And that was what made so many of us buy it), and what he actually did with it, which was update a few times, say it was 'finished' and released, and then move on with our money. I did put 15-30 hours into Minecraft, but that doesnt matter at all to me. The fact is he made me excited and want to buy the game because he made it sound like it was going to be some amazing adventure/sandbox/survival game and he was updating it like crazy, then I was sorely dissapointed when I bought it and had to wait weeks/months just for relatively small updates, which slowed to a crawl. Call me a fool, but I learned a lesson.

[QUOTE=Cushie;34272202]You are missing the point entirely though. When people say Minecraft is 'unfinished', they mean that it completely lacks most of the features that Notch promised in his blog when he used to write about it, and all of the awesome ideas he wanted to put in. It has none of that, people are annoyed because the game is completely unfinished when you compared what Notch planned to do with it (And that was what made so many of us buy it), and what he actually did with it, which was update a few times, say it was 'finished' and released, and then move on with our money. I did put 15-30 hours into Minecraft, but that doesnt matter at all to me. The fact is he made me excited and want to buy the game because he made it sound like it was going to be some amazing adventure/sandbox/survival game and he was updating it like crazy, then I was sorely dissapointed when I bought it and had to wait weeks/months just for relatively small updates, which slowed to a crawl. Call me a fool, but I learned a lesson.[/QUOTE] It's been a long time since I played, but I don't recall him promising any specific features beyond a nebulously defined "survival mode." I'd say development definitely ran out of steam, and the "end" product poorly realized jumble of features, but finished doesn't really make sense for such an open-ended game. I do think it has failed at being a good open-ended game, though. Take Dwarf Fortress for example. Since you're in constant danger of starving, dying of thirst, getting slaughtered, etc., your creativity and ingenuity is rewarded because the ever-present danger gives meaning and context to your actions. You could make elaborate traps or underground farms in Minecraft, but it doesn't really mean anything. An elaborate project to irrigate a desert is pointless because water is infinite and almost useless. There's neither that feeling of accomplishment from making a self-sustaining home in a glacier or a fortress constantly besieged by undead, nor those tiny victories of scrapping together your first sword in that tiny little hut you built.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;34272293]It's been a long time since I played, but I don't recall him promising any specific features beyond a nebulously defined "survival mode." I'd say development definitely ran out of steam, and the "end" product poorly realized jumble of features, but finished doesn't really make sense for such an open-ended game. I do think it has failed at being a good open-ended game, though. Take Dwarf Fortress for example. Since you're in constant danger of starving, dying of thirst, getting slaughtered, etc., your creativity and ingenuity is rewarded because the ever-present danger gives meaning and context to your actions. You could make elaborate traps or underground farms in Minecraft, but it doesn't really mean anything. An elaborate project to irrigate a desert is pointless because water is infinite and almost useless. There's neither that feeling of accomplishment from making a self-sustaining home in a glacier or a fortress constantly besieged by undead, nor those tiny victories of scrapping together your first sword in that tiny little hut you built.[/QUOTE] Well maybe he didnt [i]promise promise[/i], but he wrote about tons of features that he wanted to do and had planned, I knew that Dwarf Fortress was a major inspiration because he wanted to put in loads of the features of that but in a 3d world. I think to many people 'finished' is what the game was when Notch gave up on it, he was the original creator and man with the plan, and I dont know about other people but I feel cheated that he has given up on the game after he had so many ideas for it, which is one of the main reasons I bought it (Cheaper price + I had never seen this kind of situation before)

[QUOTE=Mingebox;34272151]Minecraft started in the first few weeks as a very basic game but enjoyable, if only for the novelty.[/QUOTE] Which is wholly subjective. I bought Minecraft under the assumption I would get more than was presented, because what was presented was awful, but had potential. It is equivalent to me with what HL2 would have been with just the engine and some basic maps- neat, but needing work done badly, and on the whole not worth much. This is why it's better to measure these things objectively, such as in terms of [URL="http://notch.tumblr.com/post/779956568/the-rationale-for-redstone"]content promised and not delivered on.[/URL] I'm glad you're happy with what you got, that doesn't mean it wasn't an unfinished product.

[QUOTE=Cushie;34272480]Well maybe he didnt [i]promise promise[/i], but he wrote about tons of features that he wanted to do and had planned, I knew that Dwarf Fortress was a major inspiration because he wanted to put in loads of the features of that but in a 3d world. I think to many people 'finished' is what the game was when Notch gave up on it, he was the original creator and man with the plan, and I dont know about other people but I feel cheated that he has given up on the game after he had so many ideas for it, which is one of the main reasons I bought it (Cheaper price + I had never seen this kind of situation before)[/QUOTE] I feel disappointed, but I don't feel cheated. And I didn't really take the plans on his blog for features he was announcing, rather him just brainstorming. I think it was clear from the start that he didn't really have a specific plan and was just making it up as he went along. It seemed to work for the first year or two, too. Infinite maps wasn't something he planned on from the beginning, and that turned out surprisingly well after a while. But in the end, the lack of direction started to show up in slower updates and poorly implemented features.

[QUOTE=The golden;34259460]Er, it [I]was[/I] HIS game and HIS company. Who are we supposed to blame? His neighbors cat?[/QUOTE] Perhaps situational factors that have forced himto do these unwise decisions?

[QUOTE=junker|154;34273885]Perhaps situational factors that have forced himto do these unwise decisions?[/QUOTE] Like getting bathtubs full of money to go on holiday with?

[QUOTE=Mingebox;34270998]"Finished" doesn't apply because even in it's most simplest iterations during the first few weeks of development, it was a playable game. Most games are developed like a car, where it only really works when most of the pieces are in place. Minecraft was playable even in it''s most basic iterations from the first weeks of development, and gradually added more features from there. Just because it didn't turn out how you were hoping, or because Notch proved why people with ADHD shouldn't be self-employed, doesn't mean it's "unfinished"[/QUOTE]I would respectfully disagree on this point, and would go on to put forward the proposition that Minecraft slowly evolved from a mostly-finished small game to a half-finished medium sized one. I checked out Minecraft originally when that one server screwup essentially made one iteration of the game a "demo" version, and that was a neat self-contained experience. You were some hairy little survivalist who had to gather resources and carve out a place in a huge, secretly hostile world. Once you were finished simply [i]surviving[/i] you were left to your own devices; some made gadgets, some focused on refining their safehavens visually, and some continued to push the boundaries of their "conquered" land like the world's most hopeless pioneer. There was no real "endgame" -- but there didn't really need to be, since your only outright stated goal when thrown into this place was to continue existing. Then, well, other things started happening. The little hairy man found out that he could open portals to hell; but soon discovered that this new land was so hostile, barren, and taxing on resources that there was basically no reason to do so. The little hairy man found other men with [i]huge honking noses[/i], but these people were actually less capable of interaction than livestock and certain types of plants. The little hairy man found unearthly abominations made of shadow, but was robbed of his anxiousness around them when he heard them grunt like a baseline enemy he had defeated numerous times before. The little hairy man eventually discovered that, through an incredibly intricate set of steps never outlined or alluded to anywhere, he could enter the world of these umbral tears in reality and destroy their master. The little hairy man did not even know that they had a master before this moment, or that [i]this[/i] was apparently the ultimate goal of his life, but whatever. The little hairy man gathered all that he needed and set out for his final conflict; one against the monster at the end of all things. Upon finally entering the portal, he was shocked to come face to face with... ...A dragon. The generic fallback for a challenging creature in medieval settings. A dragon which was dumb as rocks, and was only not a pushover because of never-actually-explained orb structures that recharged its health bar. And after the thing finally died, the little hairy man was greeted with... well, a ten minute long, text-only variant of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkaG29O2sKw][i]this[/i][/url]. The little hairy man left his world not with a sense of satisfaction, but with a feeling of being rended apart. What started as a simple idea of building to survive, and surviving to build, quickly scattered into several clashing directions which themselves were abandoned long before any path could be made worth exploring. There were far more dead-ends, half-finished projects, and vestigial concepts in this finished realm than there were while it was still in infancy. It had, ultimately, built itself [i]into[/i] the beta of a world which was never intended to be completed. And, most likely, never will be.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;34270998]"Finished" doesn't apply because even in it's most simplest iterations during the first few weeks of development, it was a playable game. Most games are developed like a car, where it only really works when most of the pieces are in place. Minecraft was playable even in it''s most basic iterations from the first weeks of development, and gradually added more features from there. Just because it didn't turn out how you were hoping, or because Notch proved why people with ADHD shouldn't be self-employed, doesn't mean it's "unfinished"[/QUOTE] Again the only reason it seems this way is because they didnt develops the game right. Look at TF2. It gets updates but it was clear that the game was finished when it was released because it was an actual functioning game with all the core gameplay done. A game should be considered finished when the game is actually functional leaving finished gameplay mechanics that can later be added on. Minecraft on the other hand was considered finished when the game was far from fully functional. It had many elements that were put in to be worked on later instead of making sure all the elements of the game were able to stand on there own without requiring additional updates to it.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;34285000]Again the only reason it seems this way is because they didnt develops the game right. Look at TF2. It gets updates but it was clear that the game was finished when it was released because it was an actual functioning game with all the core gameplay done. A game should be considered finished when the game is actually functional leaving finished gameplay mechanics that can later be added on. Minecraft on the other hand was considered finished when the game was far from fully functional. It had many elements that were put in to be worked on later instead of making sure all the elements of the game were able to stand on there own without requiring additional updates to it.[/QUOTE] Minecraft is a functional game. It's always been a functional game. Poorly implemented or half features don't make it an unfinished game in the same way a poorly implemented update with missing items would make TF2 an unfinished game.